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Where do the cows go?

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24

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    #32
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    What's the income like if you don't mind me asking?

    You wouldn't believe me if I told you.


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    #33
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Effects wrote: »
    You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

    Why wouldn't I? You don't have to give numbers, just wondering are you making more than when you were cattle farming?


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    #34
    Simi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭Simi


    BDI wrote: »
    Ok beef is done with tomorrow.

    All the cows are shot.

    What is the best thing to do with them for the environment. Should we eat them until they are gone or let their carcasses return to the earth by rotting?

    Would a million rotten cows lead to a new virus or evolutionary change in something?

    Is there an end game?

    But that's not what's going to happen. Everyone is not going to go vegan overnight. It's something that MAY happen over decades.

    In that case beef farming will gradually become unprofitable for even the most low cost operations and will gradually die off. No mountains of cow carcasses to dispose of, no mutant viruses etc.


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    #35
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Captain Flaps wrote: »
    We don't eat donkeys, are they endangered?

    Yes - in many countries they are. There is just a fraction of the number of Donkeys now. In Africa and elsewhere the Chinese are buying them up to use in traditional medicine. Some countries indiginous populationsof donkies are being decimated. Not going to link to the story as per the charter here. But a google will bring up the details if you want to check it out ...


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    #36
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭emaherx


    seamus wrote: »
    Cows are a domesticated version of a family of animals, many of whom live wild. We don't really know the full history, but what we know as a modern cow has probably been in existence as long as the domestic dog.

    That is, it didn't arise normally through evolution but through human-led selective breeding. As such, the decline of this species is of little concern since very little co-evolution will have taken place with it.

    The domestic cow as a species would likely continue to be kept by some people around the place, but as a whole you wouldn't see many of them living wild.

    Cows were bred from aurochs not any living bovine today. There is actually very little difference between aurochs and modern cattle except for the size nothing like the difference between modern dogs and wolves. There is a fairly detailed history of modern cattle dating back thousands of years there genome has been traced back to 2 separate parts of the world it is believed they were domesticated simultaneously from the 2 areas. If cattle farming ended tomorrow cattle would change from being one of the most plentiful animals on the planet to the endangered list. But the small sanctuaries that might exist to keep cows would need to cull them often to control their numbers from overcrowding the sanctuaries land caussing starvation.


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    #37
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Effects wrote: »
    Most vegans keep unwanted cattle as pets, until they die of natural causes. All cows are artificially inseminated so they can't survive in the wild anyway.

    Incorrect. Cows are not 'all' artificially inseminated* by any means. A real live bull is used on many farms. Lots of things cant survive in the wild (such as pets) but no one is suggesting wiping them out.

    Edit:* feking auto correct :pac:


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    #38
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    How much of these donkey stories are vegan propaganda. I’m sorry but I find a lot of these causes get corrupted by people who think it’s ok to exaggerate the details to convince people. What’s the problem with telling lies if it convinces people what we know to be right?

    Are donkeys really getting a raw deal?


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    #39
    hetuzozaho
    Registered Users Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Next up on Rubbish FM
    BDI wrote: »
    Are donkeys really getting a raw deal?


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    #40
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    At the end of the day, it comes down to money. People will move away from traditional farming if that's where the larger profits are. Effects doesn't want to say much about it but does anyone have any information on whether plant based farming can be just as profitable for farmers?


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    #41
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    gozunda wrote: »
    Incorrect. Cows are not 'all' artificially disseminated by any means. A real live bull is used on many farms. Lots of things cant survive in the wild (such as pets) but no one is suggesting wiping them out.

    Yeah, I'm going to take the word of a confirmed troll such as yourself :rolleyes:

    I'm sure you have loads of naturally inseminated, inbred cattle running around your farm. :rolleyes:


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    #42
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Has a nation or world population ever changed their practice or lifestyle in concert over say one year?


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    #43
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    At the end of the day, it comes down to money. People will move away from traditional farming if that's where the larger profits are. Effects doesn't want to say much about it but does anyone have any information on whether plant based farming can be just as profitable for farmers?

    Depends on the crop and the land. Irish soil is not particularly good for growing grain to produce bread for example but it dose just fine in the drinks industry.

    Much of the land used for cattle is no use for plant based food. So most livestock farmers would go broke if they tried to convert. Forestry might be an option but monoculture of Sika spruce would not do the environment much good.


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    #44
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Effects wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm going to take the word of a confirmed troll such as yourself :rolleyes:

    I'm sure you have loads of naturally inseminated, inbred cattle running around your farm. :rolleyes:

    I'm not from a farming background but I live in the countryside and have learned a lot . No responsible animal owner, whether breeding dogs or farming cattle allows inbreeding and to suggest otherwise is idiotic.


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    #45
    topmanamillion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    Effects wrote: »
    Nuts, berries, fruits.

    It'd be more grasshoppers, ants, locusts, frogs.. Basically Thailand on a global scale.

    Fields of soya, maize and grains are as unsustainable as intensively farmed beef and dairy. Disease resistant crops reduce the need of pesticides and fungicides but there's no escaping their use along with vast amounts of fertiliser when grown intensively.

    It would be extremely unwise not to diversify the global diet. We were essentially a vegan country in the 1800s and it didn't go very well.


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    #46
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,757 ✭✭✭893bet


    Effects wrote: »
    For protection.

    Not sure if serious.

    Protection from what?


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    #47
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    emaherx wrote: »
    Depends on the crop and the land. Irish soil is not particularly good for growing grain to produce bread for example but it dose just fine in the drinks industry.

    Much of the land used for cattle is no use for plant based food. So most livestock farmers would go broke if they tried to convert. Forestry might be an option but monoculture of Sika spruce would not do the environment much good.

    Is there an alternative then? If cattle farming is no longer in existence and the land is useless for plant based food, what can the land be used for?


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    #48
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    BDI wrote: »
    Ok beef is done with tomorrow.

    All the cows are shot.

    What is the best thing to do with them for the environment. Should we eat them until they are gone or let their carcasses return to the earth by rotting?

    Would a million rotten cows lead to a new virus or evolutionary change in something?

    Is there an end game?

    Be only done within a short period of time, if cattle got a disease that was non curable and negative to humans.


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    #49
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    If say Ireland stops using its grass for beef what will it use its grass for. Should we go poor and allow Thailand to go rich just so some cows don’t get eaten?

    We as a nation make grass. It’s what we are best at.


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    #50
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Is there an alternative then? If cattle farming is no longer in existence and the land is useless for plant based food, what can the land be used for?

    Pinics.


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    #51
    Eathrin
    Registered Users Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭Eathrin


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Do you think farmers will give up their land to be returned to nature?

    No but they'd probably sell it back to the state or take a forestry grant if they had no better use for it. Animal agriculture is a horribly inefficient use of land.
    emaherx wrote: »
    You mean poor land management, plenty of destruction of nature due to all kinds of human activity including producing plant based food.

    Can't see how me keeping a few cows causes any kind of extinction event. Farms are full of wild life much of which depends on grass land.

    Ireland is just about the least forested country in Europe now. The extinction event already happened here and it's happening elsewhere in the world right now.


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    #52
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    gozunda wrote: »
    Incorrect. Cows are not 'all' artificially disseminated by any means. A real live bull is used on many farms. Lots of things cant survive in the wild (such as pets) but no one is suggesting wiping them out.

    Dogs can survive in the wild.


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    #53
    markjbloggs
    Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭markjbloggs


    Why don't we just eat them all?


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    #54
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Dogs can survive in the wild.

    Not all dog breeds.


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    #55
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Pinics.

    :confused:

    Pinics: Of or pertaining to the pine; obtained from the pine; formerly, designating an acid which is the chief constituent of common resin,


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    #56
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Not all dog breeds.

    True.


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    #57
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    :confused:

    Pinics: Of or pertaining to the pine; obtained from the pine; formerly, designating an acid which is the chief constituent of common resin,

    No sandwiches and lashings of ginger ale.


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    #58
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    No sandwiches and lashings of ginger ale.

    :pac: Oh right.


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    #59
    Iodine1
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    Cows will probably end up in a cow museum.


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    #60
    Aceandstuff
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Aceandstuff


    This thread looks like something straight out of the newest episode of South Park, "Let Them Eat Goo".
    Basically, most of South Park goes vegan because Tegridy Farms makes a new hemp burger and people get the munchies for more Tegridy burgers, etc, etc. Another vegan meat company arrives on the scene and isn't happy with this. Eventually, it leads to the local cattle farmer complaining to Randy and dumping his livestock on Tegridy farm. Randy and Towelie get stoned and go on a totally ethical and vegan cattle shooting spree.

    Feeling controversial, might set up a South Park discussion thread later, IDK.


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    #61
    emaherx
    Registered Users Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭emaherx


    Eathrin wrote: »
    No but they'd probably sell it back to the state or take a forestry grant if they had no better use for it. Animal agriculture is a horribly inefficient use of land.



    Ireland is just about the least forested country in Europe now. The extinction event already happened here and it's happening elsewhere in the world right now.

    Ireland has gone from 1% forestation a century ago to 11% today and is increasing. Also no hedge rows are included in these figures we have much more of those than most European countries.

    Animal agriculture is the most efficient way to produce food from land than is mostly only good at growing grass.


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