Where do the cows go?

Danthemanhere

I'm just wondering, if everyone becomes vegan, where do the cows go? What do we do with them? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'd be interested in becoming a vegan but I've just never figured out what happens to cattle if they're no longer needed for food?

BDI

We would give them a small country to rule as they see fit. Somewhere with lots of grass.

Captain Flaps

There'll be a whole lot less of them around, some people will keep them for pleasure but they'll stop being such a common sight to be sure.

Danthemanhere

Will they become endangered?

Captain Flaps

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Will they become endangered?

We don't eat donkeys, are they endangered?

Danthemanhere

Captain Flaps wrote: »

We don't eat donkeys, are they endangered?

Donkeys are regularly eaten!

seamus

Cows are a domesticated version of a family of animals, many of whom live wild. We don't really know the full history, but what we know as a modern cow has probably been in existence as long as the domestic dog.

That is, it didn't arise normally through evolution but through human-led selective breeding. As such, the decline of this species is of little concern since very little co-evolution will have taken place with it.

The domestic cow as a species would likely continue to be kept by some people around the place, but as a whole you wouldn't see many of them living wild.

Effects

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I'd be interested in becoming a vegan but I've just never figured out what happens to cattle if they're no longer needed for food?

Most vegans keep unwanted cattle as pets, until they die of natural causes.
All cows are artificially inseminated so they can't survive in the wild anyway.

Eathrin

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Will they become endangered?

Huge amounts of animals become endangered or go extinct every year, in no small part due to animal agriculture. On the whole, the world going vegan would see huge amounts of land returned to nature and animals would flourish in such an environment.

Danthemanhere

If cattle had a vote, would they vote to have their numbers diminished hugely or stick with the status quo?

emaherx

Effects wrote: »

Most vegans keep unwanted cattle as pets, until they die of natural causes.
All cows are artificially inseminated so they can't survive in the wild anyway.

Do you actually believe that?

Danthemanhere

Eathrin wrote: »

Huge amounts of animals become endangered or go extinct every year, in no small part due to animal agriculture. On the whole, the world going vegan would see huge amounts of land returned to nature and animals would flourish in such an environment.

Do you think farmers will give up their land to be returned to nature?

Captain Flaps

Danthemanhere wrote: »

If cattle had a vote, would they vote to have their numbers diminished hugely or stick with the status quo?

Something tells me that OP isn't actually thinking of going Vegan at all and is engaging in a bit of fishing.

emaherx

Eathrin wrote: »

Huge amounts of animals become endangered or go extinct every year, in no small part due to animal agriculture. On the whole, the world going vegan would see huge amounts of land returned to nature and animals would flourish in such an environment.

You mean poor land management, plenty of destruction of nature due to all kinds of human activity including producing plant based food.

Can't see how me keeping a few cows causes any kind of extinction event. Farms are full of wild life much of which depends on grass land.

Effects

emaherx wrote: »

Do you actually believe that?

I'm a vegan farmer, of course I believe that.

topmanamillion

If the beef market collapsed in the morning and everyone said they were no longer eating beef a certain portion of cattle would be maintained for markets like petfood.

The rest of the world's 1 billion cattle would be very quickly shot and the land they graze on would be used to produce something that would give its owners an income. Any other scenerio where humans keep 1 billion cows as pets is a fairytale.

Effects

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Do you think farmers will give up their land to be returned to nature?

As a farmer myself, I've already given up land to return to nature. I get paid by the EU to do so.

solerina

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I'm just wondering, if everyone becomes vegan, where do the cows go? What do we do with them? I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I'd be interested in becoming a vegan but I've just never figured out what happens to cattle if they're no longer needed for food?

They won’t exist, why breed animals that will cost you money to keep...some will have to be born for cows to produce milk but not as many as now.

Plumbthedepths

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Something tells me that OP isn't actually thinking of going Vegan at all and is engaging in a bit of fishing.

Possibly but it is an interesting topic even if that were not the intent of the OP.

Iodine1

Effects wrote: »

All cows are artificially inseminated so they can't survive in the wild anyway.

Why do farmers keep bulls running with their cows do you think?

Danthemanhere

Captain Flaps wrote: »

Something tells me that OP isn't actually thinking of going Vegan at all and is engaging in a bit of fishing.

:pac: Not at all. I'm actually quite surprised that there's not a plan. Seeing the cattle population culled is not something that I'm overly appealed too to be honest.

emaherx

Effects wrote: »

I'm a vegan farmer, of course I believe that.

Can't be sure these days I've seen a lot of crazy beliefs on here recently, ranging from "it's unatueral for a female animal to be constantly pregnant" to "dairy cows being worn out and spent at 5 years old" getting hard to distinguish between sarcasm and not a clue about animals

Danthemanhere

Effects wrote: »

As a farmer myself, I've already given up land to return to nature. I get paid by the EU to do so.

Oh right. Well that's a good development. What do you grow?

Danthemanhere

solerina wrote: »

They won’t exist, why breed animals that will cost you money to keep...some will have to be born for cows to produce milk but not as many as now.

But we won't drink milk?

Danthemanhere

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Possibly but it is an interesting topic even if that were not the intent of the OP.

Why wouldn't it be my intent?

Effects

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Oh right. Well that's a good development. What do you grow?

Nuts, berries, fruits.

Effects

Iodine1 wrote: »

Why do farmers keep bulls running with their cows do you think?

For protection.

BDI

Ok beef is done with tomorrow.

All the cows are shot.

What is the best thing to do with them for the environment. Should we eat them until they are gone or let their carcasses return to the earth by rotting?

Would a million rotten cows lead to a new virus or evolutionary change in something?

Is there an end game?

Danthemanhere

Effects wrote: »

Nuts, berries, fruits.

What's the income like if you don't mind me asking? I mean, with the EU payments, are you making as much as you did while farming cattle or are you making more?

Plumbthedepths

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be my intent?

Just replying to another to another poster. I'm sure your are genuine and your further engagement on the topic will convince the doubters.

Danthemanhere

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Just replying to another to another poster. I'm sure your are genuine and your further engagement on the topic will convince the doubters.

I'm already after getting some very interesting answers.

Effects

Danthemanhere wrote: »

What's the income like if you don't mind me asking?

You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

Danthemanhere

Effects wrote: »

You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

Why wouldn't I? You don't have to give numbers, just wondering are you making more than when you were cattle farming?

Simi

BDI wrote: »

Ok beef is done with tomorrow.

All the cows are shot.

What is the best thing to do with them for the environment. Should we eat them until they are gone or let their carcasses return to the earth by rotting?

Would a million rotten cows lead to a new virus or evolutionary change in something?

Is there an end game?

But that's not what's going to happen. Everyone is not going to go vegan overnight. It's something that MAY happen over decades.

In that case beef farming will gradually become unprofitable for even the most low cost operations and will gradually die off. No mountains of cow carcasses to dispose of, no mutant viruses etc.

gozunda

Captain Flaps wrote: »

We don't eat donkeys, are they endangered?

Yes - in many countries they are. There is just a fraction of the number of Donkeys now. In Africa and elsewhere the Chinese are buying them up to use in traditional medicine. Some countries indiginous populationsof donkies are being decimated. Not going to link to the story as per the charter here. But a google will bring up the details if you want to check it out ...

emaherx

seamus wrote: »

Cows are a domesticated version of a family of animals, many of whom live wild. We don't really know the full history, but what we know as a modern cow has probably been in existence as long as the domestic dog.

That is, it didn't arise normally through evolution but through human-led selective breeding. As such, the decline of this species is of little concern since very little co-evolution will have taken place with it.

The domestic cow as a species would likely continue to be kept by some people around the place, but as a whole you wouldn't see many of them living wild.

Cows were bred from aurochs not any living bovine today. There is actually very little difference between aurochs and modern cattle except for the size nothing like the difference between modern dogs and wolves. There is a fairly detailed history of modern cattle dating back thousands of years there genome has been traced back to 2 separate parts of the world it is believed they were domesticated simultaneously from the 2 areas. If cattle farming ended tomorrow cattle would change from being one of the most plentiful animals on the planet to the endangered list. But the small sanctuaries that might exist to keep cows would need to cull them often to control their numbers from overcrowding the sanctuaries land caussing starvation.

gozunda

Effects wrote: »

Most vegans keep unwanted cattle as pets, until they die of natural causes. All cows are artificially inseminated so they can't survive in the wild anyway.

Incorrect. Cows are not 'all' artificially inseminated* by any means. A real live bull is used on many farms. Lots of things cant survive in the wild (such as pets) but no one is suggesting wiping them out.

Edit:* feking auto correct :pac:

BDI

How much of these donkey stories are vegan propaganda. I’m sorry but I find a lot of these causes get corrupted by people who think it’s ok to exaggerate the details to convince people. What’s the problem with telling lies if it convinces people what we know to be right?

Are donkeys really getting a raw deal?

hetuzozaho

Next up on Rubbish FM

BDI wrote: »

Are donkeys really getting a raw deal?

Danthemanhere

At the end of the day, it comes down to money. People will move away from traditional farming if that's where the larger profits are. Effects doesn't want to say much about it but does anyone have any information on whether plant based farming can be just as profitable for farmers?

Effects

gozunda wrote: »

Incorrect. Cows are not 'all' artificially disseminated by any means. A real live bull is used on many farms. Lots of things cant survive in the wild (such as pets) but no one is suggesting wiping them out.

Yeah, I'm going to take the word of a confirmed troll such as yourself :rolleyes:

I'm sure you have loads of naturally inseminated, inbred cattle running around your farm. :rolleyes:

YFlyer

Has a nation or world population ever changed their practice or lifestyle in concert over say one year?

emaherx

Danthemanhere wrote: »

At the end of the day, it comes down to money. People will move away from traditional farming if that's where the larger profits are. Effects doesn't want to say much about it but does anyone have any information on whether plant based farming can be just as profitable for farmers?

Depends on the crop and the land. Irish soil is not particularly good for growing grain to produce bread for example but it dose just fine in the drinks industry.

Much of the land used for cattle is no use for plant based food. So most livestock farmers would go broke if they tried to convert. Forestry might be an option but monoculture of Sika spruce would not do the environment much good.

Plumbthedepths

Effects wrote: »

Yeah, I'm going to take the word of a confirmed troll such as yourself :rolleyes:

I'm sure you have loads of naturally inseminated, inbred cattle running around your farm. :rolleyes:

I'm not from a farming background but I live in the countryside and have learned a lot . No responsible animal owner, whether breeding dogs or farming cattle allows inbreeding and to suggest otherwise is idiotic.

topmanamillion

Effects wrote: »

Nuts, berries, fruits.

It'd be more grasshoppers, ants, locusts, frogs.. Basically Thailand on a global scale.

Fields of soya, maize and grains are as unsustainable as intensively farmed beef and dairy. Disease resistant crops reduce the need of pesticides and fungicides but there's no escaping their use along with vast amounts of fertiliser when grown intensively.

It would be extremely unwise not to diversify the global diet. We were essentially a vegan country in the 1800s and it didn't go very well.

893bet

Effects wrote: »

For protection.

Not sure if serious.

Protection from what?

Danthemanhere

emaherx wrote: »

Depends on the crop and the land. Irish soil is not particularly good for growing grain to produce bread for example but it dose just fine in the drinks industry.

Much of the land used for cattle is no use for plant based food. So most livestock farmers would go broke if they tried to convert. Forestry might be an option but monoculture of Sika spruce would not do the environment much good.

Is there an alternative then? If cattle farming is no longer in existence and the land is useless for plant based food, what can the land be used for?

YFlyer

BDI wrote: »

Ok beef is done with tomorrow.

All the cows are shot.

What is the best thing to do with them for the environment. Should we eat them until they are gone or let their carcasses return to the earth by rotting?

Would a million rotten cows lead to a new virus or evolutionary change in something?

Is there an end game?

Be only done within a short period of time, if cattle got a disease that was non curable and negative to humans.

BDI

If say Ireland stops using its grass for beef what will it use its grass for. Should we go poor and allow Thailand to go rich just so some cows don’t get eaten?

We as a nation make grass. It’s what we are best at.

Plumbthedepths

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Is there an alternative then? If cattle farming is no longer in existence and the land is useless for plant based food, what can the land be used for?

Pinics.

Eathrin

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Do you think farmers will give up their land to be returned to nature?

No but they'd probably sell it back to the state or take a forestry grant if they had no better use for it. Animal agriculture is a horribly inefficient use of land.

emaherx wrote: »

You mean poor land management, plenty of destruction of nature due to all kinds of human activity including producing plant based food.

Can't see how me keeping a few cows causes any kind of extinction event. Farms are full of wild life much of which depends on grass land.

Ireland is just about the least forested country in Europe now. The extinction event already happened here and it's happening elsewhere in the world right now.