How to beat the All Blacks?

raclle · 14-10-2019 12:10am #1

Given our performances so far nobody is giving us a chance and rightly so. We haven't gotten out of third gear and are too predictable and one dimensional with no plan B. We're way off 2018 form and am at a loss to think of a way we can win.

NZ, Arg and Japan all have a similar fast paced game which we seem to struggle against. Fast line speed, quick recycle, off loads etc. How do we overcome that? If we start kicking they'll just run at us. Nothing we have done so far gives me any hope. I was hoping by now we would have some sort of back up plan or clever plays but its just more of the same.

I don't mean to be pessimistic and am certainly no expert but NZ will be close to their best. Any ideas how we go about this?

JohnnyFlash · 14-10-2019 12:10am

Get more points than them.

gamma001 · 14-10-2019 12:12am

This is a good example of how to beat them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ON6cQBUXE

BDI · 14-10-2019 12:13am

I don’t know mich about rugby but I’m willing to help. How about play the three kickers that are usually in the squad at the same time. One left one right and one middle. Everybody else defend and get the ball to them.

Change the game, change history.

People will laugh at how we used to play one kicker at a time.

teednab-el · 14-10-2019 12:20am

SA asked the same question in RWC 1995. I cant see Ireland doing it. We arent good enough and NZ will go to town on us. It would be a major shock if it did happen tbh.

14-10-2019 12:33am

raclle wrote: »

Given our performances so far nobody is giving us a chance and rightly so. We haven't gotten out of third gear and are too predictable and one dimensional with no plan B. We're way off 2018 form and am at a loss to think of a way we can win.

NZ, Arg and Japan all have a similar fast paced game which we seem to struggle against. Fast line speed, quick recycle, off loads etc. How do we overcome that? If we start kicking they'll just run at us. Nothing we have done so far gives me any hope. I was hoping by now we would have some sort of back up plan or clever plays but its just more of the same.

I don't mean to be pessimistic and am certainly no expert but NZ will be close to their best. Any ideas how we go about this?

Utterly bemused by this "no plan B" stuff. We've had a ton of variation this world cup. I don't know how the Samoan game didn't alleviate some of the pessimism.

NZ are looking better but I think we'll give them a good run and possibly steal it with a bit of luck.

Squidgy Black · 14-10-2019 12:44am

I reckon we've been playing a tactical masterclass through the group stages. The Scotland game was a taster of what we can do, just to fire a warning shot, and then Joe scolded the lads for being a bit too dominant, and we let the Japan game be the game to cast doubt for the ABs/SA/England, and the Russia and Samoa games were just going through the motions.

We'll see the elements that have been missing from our 2018 season, the Murray pinpoint box kicks, Sexton's kick and chase with Rob Kearney chasing them like a Jack Russell, Jacob Stockdale with a couple chip and chases, and Robbie Henshaw to come back and smash through Crotty and Laumape.

Or none of that could happen and we can just play the same style of rugby we played against Wales in the warmups and Samoa where we have elements of our previous game play but we manage to hold possession and run it close to the All Blacks by keeping the ball out of their hands and holding a strong defensive line with Ringrose and Henshaw shutting down their midfield, VdF putting significant pressure on Mo'unga and forcing Beauden Barrett to kick from hand from FB/1st receiver by closing down the space he has on the ball.

I've honestly no idea how it'll go, but either way I'm absolutely buzzing for it, and to be honest, half the excitement is the possibility of listening to the backtracking from the amount of moaners who've been posting over the last two weeks as if we've become a Tier 2 nation overnight.

Dubinusa · 14-10-2019 12:46am

Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

Squidgy Black · 14-10-2019 12:48am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

A dry day probably suits us better. Less handling errors, safer possession is what we need. Rain won't stop the All Blacks from throwing it around as their basics are on another level.

Gonad · 14-10-2019 12:52am

You've got to hold and give but do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast but you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you, defend and attack
There's only one way to beat them, get round the back
Catch me if you can, cause I'm the Ireland man
And what you're looking at is the master plan
We ain't no hooligans, this ain't a rugby song
Shamrock on my chest, I know we can't go wrong....

Neil3030 · 14-10-2019 1:13am

Schmidt will never admit this, but our entire game has evolved over the last few years with a specific focus on beating the All Blacks. Cautious retention of possession (they murder you on turnovers), defend with aggressive line speed (don't allow them offload or move the ball), maximise your return from set piece (because you don't get any chances otherwise). It's left us predictable, and at times vulnerable to the better teams we play more frequently (England and Wales), but you absorb that cost in order to maximise your chance of beating the team you'll almost certainly need to beat to win a World Cup.

Hansen surely has a trick or two up his sleeve though, as this will be his 7th time playing Andy Farrell's defensive system in the last 3 years.

CatFromHue · 14-10-2019 1:55am

YFlyer · 14-10-2019 2:17am

BDI wrote: »

I don’t know mich about rugby but I’m willing to help. How about play the three kickers that are usually in the squad at the same time. One left one right and one middle. Everybody else defend and get the ball to them.

Change the game, change history.

People will laugh at how we used to play one kicker at a time.

It's not football.

bcklschaps · 14-10-2019 4:29am

Ireland will try something similar to what SA tried. Quick line speed in defense to disrupt there off-loading game. Hope to God we don't cough up any turnovers in dangerous locations. Use the full bench when the starters are absolutely knackered.

When we have the ball use our excellent kicking game to gain field position and try to score off set pieces....and or mistakes that they might make.

This has worked for us before to beat NZ.

This is our plan A. The the only way an inferior team can beat a superior team. We didn't use it against Japan because we completely underestimated them.... and by the time we realized it we were already in trouble.

Its useless if you go behind.

Its the Rugby equivalent of the blanket defense in Gaa Football or 'Parking the bus' in Soccer

14-10-2019 5:51am

gamma001 wrote: »

This is a good example of how to beat them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ON6cQBUXE

That's exactly what Ireland need to do

- Stop the All Blacks from playing
- Keep mistakes to a minimum
- Don't let them build a 10+ point lead
- Have your experienced players play out of their skin
- Have a moment of game-defining individual brilliance from one of your players

Ireland can absolutely repeat what they did at the Aviva, but they will have to play better than they have been. They're coming up against a better team than the one they played a year ago.

Rashers Big Log · 14-10-2019 6:34am

They really need to compete at the breakdown and dominate the ruck. The offloads have to be spot on as the NZ scrum is devastating. Drop goals always an option and imo we under use the maul.

It’ll be war out there and our heroes can emerge victorious but they have to invoke the spirit of the stand up and fight Munster team. Bundee is a big loss and hopefully the two solicitors flown out to Japan can sort it. Shoulder to shoulder lads, answer the call

Sonny noggs · 14-10-2019 6:39am

YFlyer wrote: »

It's not football.

Neither is his suggestion.

irishbucsfan · 14-10-2019 8:14am

Basil3 wrote: »

That's exactly what Ireland need to do

- Stop the All Blacks from playing
- Keep mistakes to a minimum
- Don't let them build a 10+ point lead
- Have your experienced players play out of their skin
- Have a moment of game-defining individual brilliance from one of your players

Ireland can absolutely repeat what they did at the Aviva, but they will have to play better than they have been. They're coming up against a better team than the one they played a year ago.

You're also forgetting there's something else there. Andy Farrell needs to produce another defensive performance that completely negates the Kiwi tight game and greatly increases the amount of work New Zealand have to do to find space out wide. Thing is, he's done that multiple times for multiple teams. You'd almost be surprised if Ireland don't produce on that side of the ball on Saturday. Question is whether we can be as accurate in the tight in the kiwi 22 this time around, given the completely different conditions.

Henry Ford III · 14-10-2019 8:52am

Respect the Haka.

Dr. Bre · 14-10-2019 8:55am

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Respect the Haka.

Stare down the Haka and don’t be intimidated

Bob Harris · 14-10-2019 8:58am

We need to duck into a few tackles and get them at least a couple of yellow cards and hopefully a red.

Utah_Saint · 14-10-2019 9:28am

Bob Harris wrote: »

We need to duck into a few tackles and get them at least a couple of yellow cards and hopefully a red.

you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....

awec · 14-10-2019 9:29am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

It's New Zealand. I think they can play in the rain.

Bob Harris · 14-10-2019 9:51am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....

Will coaches be telling players to try to 'draw the foul'? Perhaps. They'll also be telling tacklers to get as low as possible. When you have a 2m second row tackling a centre who ducks a little there is a very grey area.

GreeBo · 14-10-2019 9:54am

Bob Harris wrote: »

Will coaches be telling players to try to 'draw the foul'? Perhaps. They'll also be telling tacklers to get as low as possible. When you have a 2m second row tackling a centre who ducks a little there is a very grey area.

If you target the hip/waist area then it doesnt matter how low the ball carrier ducks and even this is only needed near the line.

Aiming for the chest is just asking for trouble, take their legs and they go down, they might offload but you will still be on the pitch.

14-10-2019 10:15am

Utah_Saint wrote: »

you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....

I hate to say it but if your goal is to win .... that does make sense

evil_seed · 14-10-2019 10:24am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Get more points than them.

close the thread! we've got the answer right here

Niallof9 · 14-10-2019 10:39am

Deleted User wrote: »

Utterly bemused by this "no plan B" stuff. We've had a ton of variation this world cup. I don't know how the Samoan game didn't alleviate some of the pessimism.

NZ are looking better but I think we'll give them a good run and possibly steal it with a bit of luck.

Well mainly because its you know Samoa....ranked ten places below us.

I wouldn't say we've had tons of variation at all.

I hope we do have some though lined up. Surely we must.

listermint · 14-10-2019 10:41am

Dubinusa wrote: »

Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

Evidently someone's never been to new Zealand......

ELM327 · 14-10-2019 10:44am

Rashers Big Log wrote: »

They really need to compete at the breakdown and dominate the ruck. The offloads have to be spot on as the NZ scrum is devastating. Drop goals always an option and imo we under use the maul.

It’ll be war out there and our heroes can emerge victorious but they have to invoke the spirit of the stand up and fight Munster team. Bundee is a big loss and hopefully the two solicitors flown out to Japan can sort it. Shoulder to shoulder lads, answer the call

Bundí O'Akí will be grand sure he's got the luck of the irish in his DNA

is_that_so · 14-10-2019 10:47am

Niallof9 wrote: »

Well mainly because its you know Samoa....ranked ten places below us.

I wouldn't say we've had tons of variation at all.

I hope we do have some though lined up. Surely we must.

We have had too few periods in games where we've done everything consistently well. Whether through missed tackles, errors or just poor decision making we've made life very difficult for ourselves. Intensity and accuracy are key to us being in the game and putting pressure on them. Get it right and it will be tight, get it wrong and who knows what score they'll put up against us.

Cypher_sounds · 14-10-2019 10:52am

Ok 3 minutes to go Ireland are 5 points up.

Do you think we can hold out against a NZ side going all out and desperate for a try?

ELM327 · 14-10-2019 11:08am

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok 3 minutes to go Ireland are 5 points up.

Do you think we can hold out against a NZ side going all out and desperate for a try?

if NZ have the ball?
Once it's not in our 22 I think we should be able.
NZ are better at containing pressure and striking quickly

14-10-2019 11:11am

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok 3 minutes to go Ireland are 5 points up.

Do you think we can hold out against a NZ side going all out and desperate for a try?

I'd hope so considering we've stopped them going all out for 77 minutes

Gonad · 14-10-2019 11:24am

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok 3 minutes to go Ireland are 5 points up.

Do you think we can hold out against a NZ side going all out and desperate for a try?

I’d take that scenario now if offered .

14-10-2019 11:26am

Niallof9 wrote: »

Well mainly because its you know Samoa....ranked ten places below us.

I wouldn't say we've had tons of variation at all.

I hope we do have some though lined up. Surely we must.

Varied kicking. Tons of offloading. I know your go-to is to be negative but, right or wrong, we've been very different this world cup.

We were down to 14 and the intensity didn't change. That's pretty positive no matter who the opposition.

alchemist33 · 14-10-2019 11:28am

Gonad wrote: »

I’d take that scenario now if offered .

Would your heart take it though?

crossman47 · 14-10-2019 11:29am

alchemist33 wrote: »

Would your heart take it though?

What my heart wouldn't take would be beating NZ and then going out to England. Could happen!

ThunderCat · 14-10-2019 11:41am

Is there anything to be said for saying another Mass?

thomond2006 · 14-10-2019 11:54am

ThunderCat wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for saying another Mass?

Another Mass? That's your Grand Plan?

aloooof · 14-10-2019 11:58am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Another Mass? That's your Grand Plan?

We put the brick on the accelerator.

ArrBee · 14-10-2019 12:00pm

I hear that food poising the night before works well.
It would be easier when your the host nation though.

partyguinness · 14-10-2019 12:00pm

Jaysus....over at The Guardian they are predicting Ireland.

No chance I'm afraid.

arsebiscuits1 · 14-10-2019 12:06pm

Perhaps this will sound cliche but I am a firm believer in the emotional levels helping us raise our game.

We've seen Japan playing with supreme pride an honour in front of their home fans. I don't think they would have won against us or Scotland without that added edge of the utter desire not to let their home support down.

Similarly, this could be Rory Bests last game for Ireland. As with Joe. This could be Sextons last RWC game along with a host of others.

I think these are important points and the squad is tighter than it has ever been having been together constantly for the last 2-3 months. 1-23 the lads are going to be doing absolutely everything to ensure these fellas play at least one more game.

I think this is understated. Knock out rugby is won on finding the extra 1% and this emotion is a good way to get it

PhilOssophy · 14-10-2019 12:08pm

Someone beat me to it with the mass idea....

14-10-2019 12:13pm

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

Ok 3 minutes to go Ireland are 5 points up.

Do you think we can hold out against a NZ side going all out and desperate for a try?

Managed it at the Aviva last year (when leading by 7). Retallick knocked on the ball, game over.

partyguinness · 14-10-2019 12:24pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Perhaps this will sound cliche but I am a firm believer in the emotional levels helping us raise our game.

We've seen Japan playing with supreme pride an honour in front of their home fans. I don't think they would have won against us or Scotland without that added edge of the utter desire not to let their home support down.

Similarly, this could be Rory Bests last game for Ireland. As with Joe. This could be Sextons last RWC game along with a host of others.

I think these are important points and the squad is tighter than it has ever been having been together constantly for the last 2-3 months. 1-23 the lads are going to be doing absolutely everything to ensure these fellas play at least one more game.

I think this is understated. Knock out rugby is won on finding the extra 1% and this emotion is a good way to get it

I am not having a go but I think this is the proverbial clutching at straws. More than 1% is needed.

Ireland need 100% everything to go right and hope that NZ have an off day...a very bad day in fact.

NZ have not lost a WC game since 2007 when an exceptionally good French side turned them over in Paris. Ireland do not have a demented Dusautoir on the pitch and a Freddie Michalak or Seb Chabal to spring from the bench. Plus Carter went off injured.

Sure what happened in the past has no bearing on what will happens next Saturday and hey miracles can happen but not to Irish rugby sides.

Mr Tickle · 14-10-2019 12:24pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Perhaps this will sound cliche but I am a firm believer in the emotional levels helping us raise our game.

We've seen Japan playing with supreme pride an honour in front of their home fans. I don't think they would have won against us or Scotland without that added edge of the utter desire not to let their home support down.

Similarly, this could be Rory Bests last game for Ireland. As with Joe. This could be Sextons last RWC game along with a host of others.

I think these are important points and the squad is tighter than it has ever been having been together constantly for the last 2-3 months. 1-23 the lads are going to be doing absolutely everything to ensure these fellas play at least one more game.

I think this is understated. Knock out rugby is won on finding the extra 1% and this emotion is a good way to get it

To summarize your point, in order overcome the AB's we need the emotional edge that we'll get from it being the last game for some key guys. But if we do win it won't be our last game so we won't.
To summarise the summary, we can't beat them unless we lose.

Gonad · 14-10-2019 12:26pm

alchemist33 wrote: »

Would your heart take it though?

You know yourself playing these lads is always heart in mouth stuff from start to finish . So yes I would take that no problem

WeleaseWoderick · 14-10-2019 12:32pm

I'll probably change my mind 20 times throughout the week but I think we've a very good chance of a win.

We're in a really good place in terms of injury profile and our whole game plan has been refined with beating NZ in mind.

I might also live to regret saying this, but this is not the all conquering New Zealand team we saw 4 years ago. I truly believe that our pack is more than a match for theirs and if our defense holds up out wide, we have a real opportunity.

reg114 · 14-10-2019 12:37pm

People getting a tad carried away here citing previous victories against the All Blacks as proof of our ability to win on Saturday. Can i remind people that the Ireland team of 2019 is a quantum leap away from that of 2018. Not only are our key players under performing but our style of play which might have been well honed and effective a year ago no longer challenges opposing teams. In short we have failed to evolve. Throw in the fact we have never beaten the ABs in a competitive game and you see the task at hand. Beating the ABs in a friendly is terrific but beating the best team on the planet in a world cup quarter final off the back of an appalling run of poor form this year is frankly not going to happen.

The Kiwis were chastened against us in Lansdowne road last year because we terrorised them on our home turf. Retallic and co are not going to roll over again. Too many of our squad are playing with low confidence and mediocre levels of speed and intensity to enable us to beat the ABs. When I watched the japanese yesterday I saw a style of play that Ireland can only dream of matching. The pace , power and intensity of their play was an absolute joy. Ireland are nowhere remotely near that level of passion or play.

My prediction , the first 20 minutes will be close after which the ABs will pull away. Might i remind people Ireland have never won a game they trailed at half time under joe, so his game will be won in the first half. Im expecting the ABs to win by a clear 3 tries.

How to beat the All Blacks?

Comments