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How to beat the All Blacks?

  • 14-10-2019 12:10am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭ raclle


    Given our performances so far nobody is giving us a chance and rightly so. We haven't gotten out of third gear and are too predictable and one dimensional with no plan B. We're way off 2018 form and am at a loss to think of a way we can win.

    NZ, Arg and Japan all have a similar fast paced game which we seem to struggle against. Fast line speed, quick recycle, off loads etc. How do we overcome that? If we start kicking they'll just run at us. Nothing we have done so far gives me any hope. I was hoping by now we would have some sort of back up plan or clever plays but its just more of the same.

    I don't mean to be pessimistic and am certainly no expert but NZ will be close to their best. Any ideas how we go about this?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭ JohnnyFlash


    Get more points than them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭ gamma001


    This is a good example of how to beat them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ON6cQBUXE


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭ BDI


    I don’t know mich about rugby but I’m willing to help. How about play the three kickers that are usually in the squad at the same time. One left one right and one middle. Everybody else defend and get the ball to them.

    Change the game, change history.

    People will laugh at how we used to play one kicker at a time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭ teednab-el


    SA asked the same question in RWC 1995. I cant see Ireland doing it. We arent good enough and NZ will go to town on us. It would be a major shock if it did happen tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭ partyjungle


    raclle wrote: »
    Given our performances so far nobody is giving us a chance and rightly so. We haven't gotten out of third gear and are too predictable and one dimensional with no plan B. We're way off 2018 form and am at a loss to think of a way we can win.

    NZ, Arg and Japan all have a similar fast paced game which we seem to struggle against. Fast line speed, quick recycle, off loads etc. How do we overcome that? If we start kicking they'll just run at us. Nothing we have done so far gives me any hope. I was hoping by now we would have some sort of back up plan or clever plays but its just more of the same.

    I don't mean to be pessimistic and am certainly no expert but NZ will be close to their best. Any ideas how we go about this?

    Utterly bemused by this "no plan B" stuff. We've had a ton of variation this world cup. I don't know how the Samoan game didn't alleviate some of the pessimism.

    NZ are looking better but I think we'll give them a good run and possibly steal it with a bit of luck.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,031 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    I reckon we've been playing a tactical masterclass through the group stages. The Scotland game was a taster of what we can do, just to fire a warning shot, and then Joe scolded the lads for being a bit too dominant, and we let the Japan game be the game to cast doubt for the ABs/SA/England, and the Russia and Samoa games were just going through the motions.

    We'll see the elements that have been missing from our 2018 season, the Murray pinpoint box kicks, Sexton's kick and chase with Rob Kearney chasing them like a Jack Russell, Jacob Stockdale with a couple chip and chases, and Robbie Henshaw to come back and smash through Crotty and Laumape.

    Or none of that could happen and we can just play the same style of rugby we played against Wales in the warmups and Samoa where we have elements of our previous game play but we manage to hold possession and run it close to the All Blacks by keeping the ball out of their hands and holding a strong defensive line with Ringrose and Henshaw shutting down their midfield, VdF putting significant pressure on Mo'unga and forcing Beauden Barrett to kick from hand from FB/1st receiver by closing down the space he has on the ball.

    I've honestly no idea how it'll go, but either way I'm absolutely buzzing for it, and to be honest, half the excitement is the possibility of listening to the backtracking from the amount of moaners who've been posting over the last two weeks as if we've become a Tier 2 nation overnight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,286 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,031 ✭✭✭✭ Squidgy Black


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

    A dry day probably suits us better. Less handling errors, safer possession is what we need. Rain won't stop the All Blacks from throwing it around as their basics are on another level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭ Gonad


    You've got to hold and give but do it at the right time
    You can be slow or fast but you must get to the line
    They'll always hit you and hurt you, defend and attack
    There's only one way to beat them, get round the back
    Catch me if you can, cause I'm the Ireland man
    And what you're looking at is the master plan
    We ain't no hooligans, this ain't a rugby song
    Shamrock on my chest, I know we can't go wrong....


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,519 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Neil3030


    Schmidt will never admit this, but our entire game has evolved over the last few years with a specific focus on beating the All Blacks. Cautious retention of possession (they murder you on turnovers), defend with aggressive line speed (don't allow them offload or move the ball), maximise your return from set piece (because you don't get any chances otherwise). It's left us predictable, and at times vulnerable to the better teams we play more frequently (England and Wales), but you absorb that cost in order to maximise your chance of beating the team you'll almost certainly need to beat to win a World Cup.

    Hansen surely has a trick or two up his sleeve though, as this will be his 7th time playing Andy Farrell's defensive system in the last 3 years.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,927 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatFromHue


    DelectableSameAnkolewatusi-size_restricted.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,516 ✭✭✭ YFlyer


    BDI wrote: »
    I don’t know mich about rugby but I’m willing to help. How about play the three kickers that are usually in the squad at the same time. One left one right and one middle. Everybody else defend and get the ball to them.

    Change the game, change history.

    People will laugh at how we used to play one kicker at a time.

    It's not football.


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ bcklschaps


    Ireland will try something similar to what SA tried. Quick line speed in defense to disrupt there off-loading game. Hope to God we don't cough up any turnovers in dangerous locations. Use the full bench when the starters are absolutely knackered.

    When we have the ball use our excellent kicking game to gain field position and try to score off set pieces....and or mistakes that they might make.

    This has worked for us before to beat NZ.

    This is our plan A. The the only way an inferior team can beat a superior team. We didn't use it against Japan because we completely underestimated them.... and by the time we realized it we were already in trouble.

    Its useless if you go behind.

    Its the Rugby equivalent of the blanket defense in Gaa Football or 'Parking the bus' in Soccer


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    gamma001 wrote: »
    This is a good example of how to beat them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06ON6cQBUXE

    That's exactly what Ireland need to do

    - Stop the All Blacks from playing
    - Keep mistakes to a minimum
    - Don't let them build a 10+ point lead
    - Have your experienced players play out of their skin
    - Have a moment of game-defining individual brilliance from one of your players

    Ireland can absolutely repeat what they did at the Aviva, but they will have to play better than they have been. They're coming up against a better team than the one they played a year ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 130 ✭✭ Rashers Big Log


    They really need to compete at the breakdown and dominate the ruck. The offloads have to be spot on as the NZ scrum is devastating. Drop goals always an option and imo we under use the maul.

    It’ll be war out there and our heroes can emerge victorious but they have to invoke the spirit of the stand up and fight Munster team. Bundee is a big loss and hopefully the two solicitors flown out to Japan can sort it. Shoulder to shoulder lads, answer the call


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭ Sonny noggs


    YFlyer wrote: »
    It's not football.

    Neither is his suggestion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,978 irishbucsfan


    Basil3 wrote: »
    That's exactly what Ireland need to do

    - Stop the All Blacks from playing
    - Keep mistakes to a minimum
    - Don't let them build a 10+ point lead
    - Have your experienced players play out of their skin
    - Have a moment of game-defining individual brilliance from one of your players

    Ireland can absolutely repeat what they did at the Aviva, but they will have to play better than they have been. They're coming up against a better team than the one they played a year ago.

    You're also forgetting there's something else there. Andy Farrell needs to produce another defensive performance that completely negates the Kiwi tight game and greatly increases the amount of work New Zealand have to do to find space out wide. Thing is, he's done that multiple times for multiple teams. You'd almost be surprised if Ireland don't produce on that side of the ball on Saturday. Question is whether we can be as accurate in the tight in the kiwi 22 this time around, given the completely different conditions.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,033 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Henry Ford III


    Respect the Haka.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,130 ✭✭✭ Dr. Bre


    Respect the Haka.

    Stare down the Haka and don’t be intimidated


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭ Bob Harris


    We need to duck into a few tackles and get them at least a couple of yellow cards and hopefully a red.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭ Utah_Saint


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    We need to duck into a few tackles and get them at least a couple of yellow cards and hopefully a red.

    you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,401 CMod ✭✭✭✭ awec


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

    It's New Zealand. I think they can play in the rain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭ Bob Harris


    Utah_Saint wrote: »

    you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....

    Will coaches be telling players to try to 'draw the foul'? Perhaps. They'll also be telling tacklers to get as low as possible. When you have a 2m second row tackling a centre who ducks a little there is a very grey area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,518 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Bob Harris wrote: »
    Will coaches be telling players to try to 'draw the foul'? Perhaps. They'll also be telling tacklers to get as low as possible. When you have a 2m second row tackling a centre who ducks a little there is a very grey area.

    If you target the hip/waist area then it doesnt matter how low the ball carrier ducks and even this is only needed near the line.

    Aiming for the chest is just asking for trouble, take their legs and they go down, they might offload but you will still be on the pitch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭ partyjungle


    Utah_Saint wrote: »
    you have to wonder with the zero tolerance approach on this from Refs, would coaches be telling players to duck slightly into tackles...or even just players on their own doing it in the hope of getting an opposing player carded. You could almost view it as the 'diving' of Rugby....


    I hate to say it but if your goal is to win .... that does make sense


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,419 ✭✭✭ evil_seed


    Get more points than them.

    close the thread! we've got the answer right here


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 Niallof9


    Utterly bemused by this "no plan B" stuff. We've had a ton of variation this world cup. I don't know how the Samoan game didn't alleviate some of the pessimism.

    NZ are looking better but I think we'll give them a good run and possibly steal it with a bit of luck.

    Well mainly because its you know Samoa....ranked ten places below us.

    I wouldn't say we've had tons of variation at all.

    I hope we do have some though lined up. Surely we must.


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,654 ✭✭✭✭ listermint


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    Hopefully it's pissing raining. Rain garryowens down on them and chip in behind the defense.

    Evidently someone's never been to new Zealand......


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    They really need to compete at the breakdown and dominate the ruck. The offloads have to be spot on as the NZ scrum is devastating. Drop goals always an option and imo we under use the maul.

    It’ll be war out there and our heroes can emerge victorious but they have to invoke the spirit of the stand up and fight Munster team. Bundee is a big loss and hopefully the two solicitors flown out to Japan can sort it. Shoulder to shoulder lads, answer the call
    Bundí O'Akí will be grand sure he's got the luck of the irish in his DNA


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,141 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Well mainly because its you know Samoa....ranked ten places below us.

    I wouldn't say we've had tons of variation at all.

    I hope we do have some though lined up. Surely we must.
    We have had too few periods in games where we've done everything consistently well. Whether through missed tackles, errors or just poor decision making we've made life very difficult for ourselves. Intensity and accuracy are key to us being in the game and putting pressure on them. Get it right and it will be tight, get it wrong and who knows what score they'll put up against us.


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