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Rugby World Cup 2019 Hagibis Projected Path

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    #92
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It would definitely be difficult and costly to just even maintain that kind of plan without ever even needing to enact it. You'd need to hold accommodation at every match venue in the off chance it might be used, for example. Then when enacting it they'd need to pay for all of the logistics of moving entire teams as well as pay for refunding tickets. I'd imagine there's some decision been made along the way that just straight-up refunding tickets and the embarrassing PR is worth it for World Rugby's bottom line.

    You could just have 2 back-up locations far apart from each other. Hell you would be as well off having one location in another nearby country.

    I'm aware it wouldn't be straightforward. But cancelling matches is monumentally damaging to the tournament.


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    #93
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    It would definitely be difficult and costly to just even maintain that kind of plan without ever even needing to enact it. You'd need to hold accommodation at every match venue in the off chance it might be used, for example. Then when enacting it they'd need to pay for all of the logistics of moving entire teams as well as pay for refunding tickets. I'd imagine there's some decision been made along the way that just straight-up refunding tickets and the embarrassing PR is worth it for World Rugby's bottom line.

    For these 2 games I'd say yup. For Japan Scotland I'm not so sure but in fairness they have to be consistent with rules and still giving it a chance to go ahead. Think that was always the far significant game in terms of outcome, no disrespect to France or Italy.


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    #94
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    If it 'wrecks all the infrastructure' then it sounds like the tournament would be cancelled!

    But that's not what they're expecting to happen. They haven't even cancelled Sunday's games yet. Ireland are playing in Fukuoka. There are other stadia in the South of Japan. Get them there, play the games, then let the typhoon pass and assess the aftermath while everyone is preparing for their scheduled quarter-finals

    How are you going to get the fans to the game?
    Who will pay for the said transport?
    Has it to be a Stadium of the same size?
    Where will you accommodate said teams and players?
    Who will pay for the 2nd stadiums readiness if needed?
    What happens if there was no Typhoon as far as I am aware it is late in the season and just like hurricane it can just shift just like that?

    The only senario that would be even possible but it would mean extending any World Cup it the game if possible be played 24 hours later.

    What happens in other World Cup's (Soccers, Cricket, Rugby League) if a game is prosponed


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    #95
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    martingriff wrote: »
    How are you going to get the fans to the game?

    You wouldn’t. That resolves a number of the problems.


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    #96
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    You wouldn’t. That resolves a number of the problems.

    Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no


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    #97
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    martingriff wrote: »
    Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

    I don’t really believe that as not playing at all is no better for them.


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    #98
    padser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭padser


    martingriff wrote: »
    Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

    Closed doors doesnt necessarily mean no TV....


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    #99
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    martingriff wrote: »
    Good point. I had heard there was a proposal to play behind closed doors but the TV people said no

    Well that's 100% ball crap. Same as that claim earlier that the reason other venues weren't looked at because advertising hordes had been removed.

    First off there's no way TV can be seen to have an influence on whether games are cancelled or not.
    Second off they certainly would not choose no game ahead of a closed door game.
    Third off, games can be broadcast on YouTube with little more than a handheld cam and WiFi connection, so I don't belive for one minute they couldn't set up a system in a safe relocation with enough notice.

    One game behind closed doors would need no more than 100 people to organise, people who are already at a loose end because of the cancellations.


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    #100
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    What if there is a typhoon for the final? Are we going to have a shared World Cup?


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    #101
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Remember this is a country which in the wake of massive natural disasters has enabled an set up emergency accommodation in a matter of hours. I don't think moving hordes of rugby fans would be that difficult if they had planned for it.

    Like, it couldn't be done here, but if there's anywhere it could be done, it's there.

    Postponement of all games for 24 hours is surely fairer all around, or why not have brought some of the games forward for the teams which have had at least 5/6 days off.

    Cancelling them outright changes so much it's just creating any number of unfair things


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    #102
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    stephen_n wrote: »
    What if there is a typhoon for the final? Are we going to have a shared World Cup?

    The tournament rules are different for the knock out stages.


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    #103
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    stephen_n wrote: »
    What if there is a typhoon for the final? Are we going to have a shared World Cup?

    From knock out stages it is cancelled for 24 to 48 hours


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    #104
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,728 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Weepsie wrote: »
    Remember this is a country which in the wake of massive natural disasters has enabled an set up emergency accommodation in a matter of hours. I don't think moving hordes of rugby fans would be that difficult if they had planned for it.

    Like, it couldn't be done here, but if there's anywhere it could be done, it's there.

    Postponement of all games for 24 hours is surely fairer all around, or why not have brought some of the games forward for the teams which have had at least 5/6 days off.

    Cancelling them outright changes so much it's just creating any number of unfair things

    Off all the game it does not change who would qualify however if the Scotland Japan game is cancelled then the fun will start as Scotland would be out. It would have had to add 2 weeks on the World Cup maybe they hoped it be okay


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    #105
    schmoo2k
    Registered Users Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭schmoo2k


    But the simple fact is that its too late to make changes to the rules...
    The only concession I could see happening is that Scotland and Japan play as scheduled, but behind closed doors to the public (assuming its deemed unsafe for the punters to attend).


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    #106
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    martingriff wrote: »
    Off all the game it does not change who would qualify however if the Scotland Japan game is cancelled then the fun will start as Scotland would be out. It would have had to add 2 weeks on the World Cup maybe they hoped it be okay

    Italy lost their chance to qualify too


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    #107
    vetinari
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    Yeah, it's honestly baffling to see so many posters defending world rugby on this.
    To think figuring out where to play a closed door game somewhere in Japan that's out of the typhoon path with a few days notice is some logistical impossibility.

    You're talking about having to move say 100 people somewhere.
    To put it in Irish terms, if the IRFU couldn't move a rugby game say from the Aviva to the Sportsground in Galway with 3 days notice, there would be uproar. All the comments would be about how inept the IRFU are.
    Same from any of the other countries, you think England could arrange for a game to be played in Newcastle with 2 days notice?


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    #108
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    vetinari wrote: »
    Yeah, it's honestly baffling to see so many posters defending world rugby on this.
    To think figuring out where to play a closed door game somewhere in Japan that's out of the typhoon path with a few days notice is some logistical impossibility.

    You're talking about having to move say 100 people somewhere.
    To put it in Irish terms, if the IRFU couldn't move a rugby game say from the Aviva to the Sportsground in Galway with 3 days notice, there would be uproar. All the comments would be about how inept the IRFU are.
    Same from any of the other countries, you think England could arrange for a game to be played in Newcastle with 2 days notice?

    Hardly a fair comparison though. All of 200km distance between Dublin and Galway. The diameter of strongest part of typhoon is 1,400km. 30,000 houses were knocked down with Typhoon Faxai and this is expected to be much worse. You could argue about potentially postponing games but moving them outright with background of a typhoon swiftly approaching isn't an easy task.


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    #109
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    the biggest take away from this is that they simply had no contingency for anything....

    and instead determined a "its played as scheduled or its cancelled" policy would be there stance.


    simply not good enough


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    #110
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Hardly a fair comparison though. All of 200km distance between Dublin and Galway. The diameter of strongest part of typhoon is 1,400km. 30,000 houses were knocked down with Typhoon Faxai and this is expected to be much worse. You could argue about potentially postponing games but moving them outright with background of a typhoon swiftly approaching isn't an easy task.

    ??

    they know exactly when the typoon is going to hit, they cancelled 3 days out from that.. and they would be moving those people to areas where the typhoon isnt due to cause severe damage.

    how is that a less preferable option than cancelling the game sand leaving the teams where they are?


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    #111
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    the biggest take away from this is that they simply had no contingency for anything....

    and instead determined a "its played as scheduled or its cancelled" policy would be there stance.


    simply not good enough

    I think it would have been very difficult to have plans for during pool stages without having knock-on impact on other games so maybe they took risk that typhoon wouldn't directly impact games or if it did it would affect games during pool and they could fall back on those rules and point to impact it would have on other pool games. Because it's happened at last game of pools, it probably becomes more noticeable and criticised naturally.

    Plan for knockout's seems to play a cancelled game within a day or 2 but obviously timeframe between matches would have been eaten into. Guess either bringing pool games forward to today or postponing until Sunday or Monday wasn't deemed possible.


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    #112
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Guess either bringing pool games forward to today or postponing until Sunday or Monday wasn't deemed possible.

    not sure why this was deemed less acceptable than cancellations though.


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    #113
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    ??

    they know exactly when the typoon is going to hit, they cancelled 3 days out from that.. and they would be moving those people to areas where the typhoon isnt due to cause severe damage.

    how is that a less preferable option than cancelling the game sand leaving the teams where they are?

    People have been advised to stay indoors and have food and drink supply for 3 days. Obviously not possible to evacuate affected cities so maybe priority from WR was to leave teams where they were. Maybe they didn't want the even slight risk of a few people of the 30 or 40 thousand fans trying to get to different location during a typhoon even if games were played behind closed doors. I'm not saying I know what WR were thinking, just speculating on what their motivations may have been.


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    #114
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    not sure why this was deemed less acceptable than cancellations though.

    They're falling back on the rules it seems. Whether there could or should have been more flexibility or they looked into other plans and realised wasn't possible and so relied on rules, is another issue. Would be good to hear from horse's mouth so to speak.


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    #115
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    People have been advised to stay indoors and have food and drink supply for 3 days. Obviously not possible to evacuate affected cities so maybe priority from WR was to leave teams where they were. Maybe they didn't want the even slight risk of a few people of the 30 or 40 thousand fans trying to get to different location during a typhoon even if games were played behind closed doors. I'm not saying I know what WR were thinking, just speculating on what their motivations may have been.

    no one at all is suggesting a mass movement of 30 - 40 thousand people?


    i seriously cannot understand how that is being used as some excuse for the cancellations.

    The priority simply should have been player and staff safety first, games getting played second....


    and everything like fans attending, TV rights etc a distant third.


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    #116
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no one at all is suggesting a mass movement of 30 - 40 thousand people?


    i seriously cannot understand how that is being used as some excuse for the cancellations.

    The priority simply should have been player and staff safety first, games getting played second....


    and everything like fans attending, TV rights etc a distant third.

    My post clearly said ''Maybe they didn't want the even slight risk of a few people of the 30 or 40 thousand fans trying to get to different location during a typhoon even if games were played behind closed doors.'' You can't account for people's actions, even if a handful tried to make their way to games and were injured or worse, the reaction would immediately swing the other way. It's not exaggerating to say this could cause serious injuries or death.


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    #117
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    ..... Would be good to hear from horse's mouth so to speak.

    yes absolutely, though they have already spun out the "thems the rules" line from todays presser.

    However the scots seem to think there is a valid argument for "force majeure" clauses to be enacted to do everything possible to have the games played.

    im sure the WR spin doctors are working furiously to have a big long statement about "what was not possible" ready for when this all blows over, if you pardon the pun.

    Anyway... we're not going to solve anything here :D:D just a pity about the effect on the competition.


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    #118
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Eod100 wrote: »
    They're falling back on the rules it seems. Whether there could or should have been more flexibility or they looked into other plans and realised wasn't possible and so relied on rules, is another issue. Would be good to hear from horse's mouth so to speak.

    I doubt anyone really thinks that in the last 48 hours they should have looked at changing the rules. They had years to come up with contingency plans for their own flagship event and all they came up with is a nil all draw. It’s poor planning and whilst I don’t buy into the asterisk thing people have said will be beside the eventual winners name it will be remembered as a mess of a tournament.


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    #119
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    My post clearly said ''Maybe they didn't want the even slight risk of a few people of the 30 or 40 thousand fans trying to get to different location during a typhoon even if games were played behind closed doors.'' You can't account for people's actions, even if a handful tried to make their way to games and were injured or worse, the reaction would immediately swing the other way. It's not exaggerating to say this could cause serious injuries or death.

    during a typhoon???

    the cities affected are due to be closed down, so no one will be moving during the typhoon


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    #120
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    during a typhoon???

    the cities affected are due to be closed down, so no one will be moving during the typhoon

    Ara, I dunno tbh. Just trying to see it from their pov. Like ya say won't solve it here. I think once Japan Scotland game goes ahead without incident they will save some face


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    #121
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,229 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Ara, I dunno tbh. Just trying to see it from their pov. Like ya say won't solve it here. I think once Japan Scotland game goes ahead without incident they will save some face

    heres hoping !!


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