It's in the past

WrinklyNeck · 06-10-2019 12:45PM

Graces7 wrote: »

No as you are simply acting on your "values system", It is totally simple. Forgiving others is central Depends though what that system is . Mine depends on not bearing grudges and forgiving. No peace else.

What if the very person who intended on getting revenge on was the person who gave you that advice? And if they gave it at a point in time during your grieving process that was before the point where you decided to forgive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqCmkbtWRVY

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 01:25PM

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

What if the very person who intended on getting revenge on was the person who gave you that advice? And if they gave it at a point in time during your grieving process that was before the point where you decided to forgive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqCmkbtWRVY

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us. He forgives us totally and unconditionally and without bearing a grudge. Our sin is wiped clean. Jesus teaches that time and time and time again. As when He speaks with the woman caught in adultery.

Forgiving is OUR concern; whether the attacker says sorry or not does not matter, does not come into it.
Someone almost destroyed my very life long ago; I was given the grace to forgive her. Did not seek penitence. it gave me peace and freedom . .

And Jesus atoned for our sins; all of them. We are in the New Covenant not the Old testament

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

WrinklyNeck · 06-10-2019 01:32PM

Graces7 wrote: »

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us.

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

There's no point in forgiving someone if they don't deserve to be forgiven. It's often a cop out and it's actually selfish. And yes, if you don't forgive, it implies you want some sort of revenge.

There is definitely no point in forgiving someone if you still have to deal with that person. You will be letting your guard down. It is important to always remember so that you can spot the same patterns in their behavior.

Hego Damask · 06-10-2019 01:32PM

MrAbyss wrote: »

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

What an utter c*nt!
Getting on with her life yeah ?

Homelander · 06-10-2019 01:37PM

Within reason (like, it wasn't a serious crime for example) if the matter is apologised for, the person displays genuine remorse, and their behavior, as far as you can see, has changed....then it's got weight as a phrase. However just saying "It's in the past" without any of that, without acknowledging the bad/poor behavior, is just cheap.

WrinklyNeck · 06-10-2019 01:41PM

Graces7 wrote: »

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us.

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 01:48PM

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

In what way? He teaches us to forgive so we do. Ah about trust you mean? You took that part of my reply way out of context. We are not obliged to put ourselves in danger. Just as battered wives can and do forgive but would not be expected to go back into an abusive situation .

The issue here is about bearing grudges? About keeping anger alive in your mind? Damaging thing to do so we do not do it. Let folk off the hook and care about them. but do not walk into danger.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-10-2019 01:51PM

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

That got me thinking. God says to forgive, but only if the offender is truly contrite. He doesn't say to forgive unconditionally. Indeed, he doesn't do so himself, or there'd be no eternal damnation in hell for transgressors.

This forgiveness malarkey is not straight forward.

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 01:54PM

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

There's no point in forgiving someone if they don't deserve to be forgiven. It's often a cop out and it's actually selfish. And yes, if you don't forgive, it implies you want some sort of revenge.

There is definitely no point in forgiving someone if you still have to deal with that person. You will be letting your guard down. It is important to always remember so that you can spot the same patterns in their behavior.

Where does " deserve" come into this? Who are we to judge? Forvieness applies whether they deserve it or not. Cop out? Oh you mean "revenge"? That never enters the equation. It really doesn't. And how is it selfish? >

Forgiving does not have to " have a point" . it is its own "point". And all the more so when you do have to be around the person.

We are on differenr wavelengths so I will leave it here. .

Interesting discussion thank you.

Forty Seven · 06-10-2019 02:02PM

Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 02:07PM

Forty Seven wrote: »

Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

exactly and then blaming the person for your pain..

One eyed Jack · 06-10-2019 02:20PM

Graces7 wrote: »

agree totally but there is a facet of trust that takes thinking about? Put it like this maybe. If I am walking over a bridge with someone and they push me off. I will find it in me while I am recovering in hospital to fully forgive them

But I would not walk over a bridge with them again. Whether or not they apologise by the way is immaterial in this. We forgive for our own peace and mental health

Trust has been destroyed.

I know what you mean, some people make it incredibly difficult to forgive them, but I trust people because I want to trust people. I would walk over the bridge again with that person, because I want to trust that person.

There have been times of course when that hasn’t worked out so well, but there have been many more times when giving someone a second chance and in many cases third and fourth chances, has only made the bond of trust between us that much stronger.

It’s difficult, and I do understand what you mean about the need to protect oneself once that trust has been violated, but for me I’ve always thought of being unwilling to trust someone as cutting off my nose to spite my face. I don’t ever want to not trust people, because putting my trust in people has a far more protective benefit than the pain caused when that trust is violated.

Mad_maxx · 06-10-2019 02:23PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

Only person suffering is you.. not letting go is toxic. Does not affect the other person.

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 02:29PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know what you mean, some people make it incredibly difficult to forgive them, but I trust people because I want to trust people. I would walk over the bridge again with that person, because I want to trust that person.

There have been times of course when that hasn’t worked out so well, but there have been many more times when giving someone a second chance and in many cases third and fourth chances, has only made the bond of trust between us that much stronger.

It’s difficult, and I do understand what you mean about the need to protect oneself once that trust has been violated, but for me I’ve always thought of being unwilling to trust someone as cutting off my nose to spite my face. I don’t ever want to not trust people, because putting my trust in people has a far more protective benefit than the pain caused when that trust is violated.

it is a hard one and I do know what you mean. The situation that comes to mind is that of a woman who has been abused by her husband. Forgives him l goes back then gets beaten up again. Sometimes to death. This is why such women are advised not to go back and go into refuges.
That is why I used an example that involved serious physical injury.

Wilfully going knowingly into a dangerous situation? Not a question of willingness but of wisdom. You CAN forgive and stay out of reach.

Graces7 · 06-10-2019 02:32PM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No . It means growing past it . Nothing you can do about what was done. I had a terrible battle with it and as soon as I let go, there was peace. It stopped eating at me. Did not matter any more

But that is your choice entirely.

Mad_maxx · 06-10-2019 02:53PM

Graces7 wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No . It means growing past it . Nothing you can do about what was done. I had a terrible battle with it and as soon as I let go, there was peace. It stopped eating at me. Did not matter any more

But that is your choice entirely.

It's not my choice, as I said earlier, very few people are masochists, if something can't be forgiven, it's because the effect was too great

We are not in control of everything as if a switch can just be flicked

con___manx1 · 06-10-2019 03:22PM

Dorothy Cold Souvenir wrote: »

Why? In the context that she then went to a psych ward, the most likely scenario is that she genuinely believed she was raped, and that she was not in full control of herself. This would have been symptomatic of an illness she had. People generally don't go to psych wards unless they are significantly unwell and delusions are commonly part of that.

The problem of her illness was addressed. The problem of the distress and damage to the men accused was not. Perhaps it was reported on in a way to make them look guilty. Perhaps the illness was not reported on. Perhaps it should not have been reported on at all. Perhaps people should educate themselves about the effects of mental illness beyond depression and anxiety. If people were aware of that and had context then the reputational damage wouldn't be there any longer.

It could be just a cover up either. everything you said is here say. Maybe she just said she was mental because she was caught red handed making false accusations. I'm not saying your wrong by the way. We just don't no.
A guy I know had an accusation made against him that was not true. he had an alabi that he was hundreds of k away when the alleged incident happened.
It was a person that just had a serious grudge against him.
His reputation in the town where he is from was ruined and he ended up leaving the country.
It never even went to court.

Graces7 · 07-10-2019 04:04AM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No; it is rising above the bad conduct of the other person. We all do wrong. All of us; would you expect to be treated as you are treating others?

You are inflicting pain on you. And on you alone.

Graces7 · 07-10-2019 04:10AM

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's not my choice, as I said earlier, very few people are masochists, if something can't be forgiven, it's because the effect was too great

We are not in control of everything as if a switch can just be flicked

Entirely your choice to go on suffering. That is letting the other person win and control your life even more.

There is nothing that cannot be forgiven. The desire for revenge is worse than the injustice. Poison.

I never again met the person who abused a high official position to try to destroy my life. In her view she had actually done so. But I bear her no illwill; she failed and failed only because I forgave her and had compassion for her. She was suffering clearly.. Which she never knew about either. Doing this healed and liberated me. We choose our own chains.

No I was not in control of that situation. I was and am in control of how I acted and then thought afterwards. Still am in every situation.

PS thank you for your posts. I had not thought about that situation for many years. And realise that appalling and life threatening as it was there is not one iota of pain or resentment in me. It was well over 25 years ago now. I made the choice and flicked the switch. Chose not to let it stay in my heart or life.

THANK YOU !

Oh and actually it was the best response as it showed the act had not succeeded in its purpose. Forgiving does that.Not forgiving is to copy the offender and let them win. Here for you

closing dwon through increasing illness

It's in the past

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