It's in the past

black_and_blue

This has been an excuse given to me from someone to avoid responsibility for their behaviour and pretty much telling me to get over it.

Is it ever really in the past when they are the same nasty person who keeps doing nasty things and using it as an excuse.

I don't think the cops would ever let you away with an excuse "it's in the past, let me go".

How is an apology too much for these types of people.

I find the "it's in the past" excuse funny because it came from someone who spent four years crying over a one night stand and harassing the man. Things were very much not in the past for her!!!

So is it ever an acceptable excuse to give to somebody when all they want is an acknowledgement of behaviour and an apology?

Church on Tuesday

black_and_blue wrote: »

This has been an excuse given to me from someone to avoid responsibility for their behaviour and pretty much telling me to get over it.

Is it ever really in the past when they are the same nasty person who keeps doing nasty things and using it as an excuse.

I don't think the cops would ever let you away with an excuse "it's in the past, let me go".

How is an apology too much for these types of people.

I find the "it's in the past" excuse funny because it came from someone who spent four years crying over a one night stand and harassing the man. Things were very much not in the past for her!!!

So is it ever an acceptable excuse to give to somebody when all they want is an acknowledgement of behaviour and an apology?

Because those types of people will never own up to their transgressions against others.

Bullies and ****ty people in general are seldom repentant.

Quantum Erasure

stop living in the past, man...

Bobblehats

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mdxfv9Qnss

Don't dwell on something outside your control. Move on.

MrAbyss

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

black_and_blue

MrAbyss wrote: »

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

"It's in the past" is not ok for this nutjob. What a bitch.

s7ryf3925pivug

MrAbyss wrote: »

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

A psychotic person has delusions. They're not allowed get better? Is it still mental health week yeah?

**** for the accused but gonna say it's not her fault. Societal problem.

One eyed Jack

black_and_blue wrote: »

So is it ever an acceptable excuse to give to somebody when all they want is an acknowledgement of behaviour and an apology?

I’d be looking at that a different way if I’m being honest. I don’t know the circumstances in your particular case but any time anyone has ever looked for an apology and an acknowledgment of my behaviour off me, they’ve been left waiting. I don’t harbour grudges against people either because when someone does something wrong against me, an acknowledgement and an apology aren’t going to mend that. Actions have always spoken louder than words and I really can’t be arsed to bear grudges against people, it just doesn’t do a persons mentality any good. I prefer to let things go, not just for their sake, but for my own sake too - it’s a waste of energy being bitter and resentful towards someone who really doesn’t give a shìte.

touts

It's only in the past if everyone agrees it is in the past.

Strumms

black_and_blue wrote: »

"It's in the past" is not ok for this nutjob. What a bitch.

In modern life though there are oceans of people more than willing to put their arm around ****èrs like this, giving them the “ahhhh poor love, are you alright, it’s not your fault” schtick... no thought at all for the poor innocent person lying cold in the ground at the result of this horrific individual, their family having lost a loved one, at the results of this despicable behavior....

In modern life... someone commits a serious assault, breaks a red light and kills a kid crossing, robs a shop... the default setting now is to examine their past for to find any fingerprint of so called hardship to excuse them....

Bollôcks !

There are people who have horrific and horrible things happen to them and choose to take from these experiences only that they wouldn’t want to see another person hurt in a similar way or ANY way..and want to stick up for and help others in a similar situation....

s7ryf3925pivug

Symptoms of an illness.

Strumms

Dorothy Cold Souvenir wrote: »

Symptoms of an illness.

I don’t think the OP has posed any relative data that would go a ways to indicate a mental illness... sadly again this is the default setting now.

s7ryf3925pivug

Strumms wrote: »

I don’t think the OP has posed any relative data that would go a ways to indicate a mental illness... sadly again this is the default setting now.

Yeah I was referring to the woman who was in a psych hospital.

Mad_maxx

black_and_blue wrote: »

This has been an excuse given to me from someone to avoid responsibility for their behaviour and pretty much telling me to get over it.

Is it ever really in the past when they are the same nasty person who keeps doing nasty things and using it as an excuse.

I don't think the cops would ever let you away with an excuse "it's in the past, let me go".

How is an apology too much for these types of people.

I find the "it's in the past" excuse funny because it came from someone who spent four years crying over a one night stand and harassing the man. Things were very much not in the past for her!!!

So is it ever an acceptable excuse to give to somebody when all they want is an acknowledgement of behaviour and an apology?

Some people are just arrogant d1cks, they won't apologise and will go so far as to tell you sh1t never even happened.

Mad_maxx

One eyed Jack wrote: »

black_and_blue wrote: »

So is it ever an acceptable excuse to give to somebody when all they want is an acknowledgement of behaviour and an apology?

I’d be looking at that a different way if I’m being honest. I don’t know the circumstances in your particular case but any time anyone has ever looked for an apology and an acknowledgment of my behaviour off me, they’ve been left waiting. I don’t harbour grudges against people either because when someone does something wrong against me, an acknowledgement and an apology aren’t going to mend that. Actions have always spoken louder than words and I really can’t be arsed to bear grudges against people, it just doesn’t do a persons mentality any good. I prefer to let things go, not just for their sake, but for my own sake too - it’s a waste of energy being bitter and resentful towards someone who really doesn’t give a shìte.

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

One eyed Jack

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

I suppose in a way it does, like I keep things in perspective, so if I’m slighted by someone, I don’t expect an apology and an acknowledgement or any of that kind of thing because we’re both equals and adults as far as I’m concerned. I’ll get whatever it is out of my system and if they’re still interested, we can both move on because reality is that nobody can do anything which changes the past, but we can do things in the present which can positively effect the future.

I’d never say to someone “get over it” though, or perhaps not in those terms. I’d suggest they move on and keep going forward, because it’s not good for anyone’s mentality to be stuck in the past. I’ve often suggested someone should get over themselves though if they expect me to apologise and acknowledge I’ve done wrong when I don’t feel I have done anything to be sorry for or there’s nothing needs to be acknowledged. By that same token, I’ve never needed anyone to say sorry or acknowledge anything, I just prefer that we move forward.

Mad_maxx

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

I suppose in a way it does, like I keep things in perspective, so if I’m slighted by someone, I don’t expect an apology and an acknowledgement or any of that kind of thing because we’re both equals and adults as far as I’m concerned. I’ll get whatever it is out of my system and if they’re still interested, we can both move on because reality is that nobody can do anything which changes the past, but we can do things in the present which can positively effect the future.

I’d never say to someone “get over it” though, or perhaps not in those terms. I’d suggest they move on and keep going forward, because it’s not good for anyone’s mentality to be stuck in the past. I’ve often suggested someone should get over themselves though if they expect me to apologise and acknowledge I’ve done wrong when I don’t feel I have done anything to be sorry for or there’s nothing needs to be acknowledged. By that same token, I’ve never needed anyone to say sorry or acknowledge anything, I just prefer that we move forward.

None of that sounds remotely remarkable, I'm talking about stuff which has a profound effect.

WrinklyNeck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqkdMGrMCUE

freshpopcorn

They are two sides to it 8n my opinion.
Those who can't apologise and admit they did did wrong.
Those who can't leave go of little things and move on can be equally as bad.

WrinklyNeck

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Those who can't apologise and admit they did did wrong.
Those who can't leave go of little things and move on can be equally as bad.

But who started it?

freshpopcorn

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

But who started it?

People make mistakes and they apologise and say they are sorry.(They are obviously more serious things which would be hard for somebody to forgive.) If people didn't move on nobody would ever really get on with an family/friends.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

Only person suffering is you.. not letting go is toxic. Does not affect the other person.

Your Face

Did you demand an apology OP?

WrinklyNeck

Graces7 wrote: »

Only person suffering is you.. not letting go is toxic. Does not affect the other person.

But sometimes letting go involves changing your perception of yourself and your own values systems. So it'snot as simple as you make it out.

Graces7

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’d be looking at that a different way if I’m being honest. I don’t know the circumstances in your particular case but any time anyone has ever looked for an apology and an acknowledgment of my behaviour off me, they’ve been left waiting. I don’t harbour grudges against people either because when someone does something wrong against me, an acknowledgement and an apology aren’t going to mend that. Actions have always spoken louder than words and I really can’t be arsed to bear grudges against people, it just doesn’t do a persons mentality any good. I prefer to let things go, not just for their sake, but for my own sake too - it’s a waste of energy being bitter and resentful towards someone who really doesn’t give a shìte.

agree totally but there is a facet of trust that takes thinking about? Put it like this maybe. If I am walking over a bridge with someone and they push me off. I will find it in me while I am recovering in hospital to fully forgive them

But I would not walk over a bridge with them again. Whether or not they apologise by the way is immaterial in this. We forgive for our own peace and mental health

Trust has been destroyed.

WrinklyNeck

Graces7 wrote: »

We forgive for our own peace and mental health

And in doing so you sacrifice something else.

Graces7

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

And in doing so you sacrifice something else.

Please explain? Thank you

Graces7

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

But sometimes letting go involves changing your perception of yourself and your own values systems. So it'snot as simple as you make it out.

No as you are simply acting on your "values system", It is totally simple. Forgiving others is central Depends though what that system is . Mine depends on not bearing grudges and forgiving. No peace else.

con___manx1

MrAbyss wrote: »

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

She should be in prison now. People like her are close to being as bad as rapists.
She basically raped those guys characters.
Honestly I think 10 years for this type of behaviour is a minimum.

s7ryf3925pivug

con___manx1 wrote: »

She should be in prison now. People like her are close to being as bad as rapists.
She basically raped those guys characters.
Honestly I think 10 years for this type of behaviour is a minimum.

Why? In the context that she then went to a psych ward, the most likely scenario is that she genuinely believed she was raped, and that she was not in full control of herself. This would have been symptomatic of an illness she had. People generally don't go to psych wards unless they are significantly unwell and delusions are commonly part of that.

The problem of her illness was addressed. The problem of the distress and damage to the men accused was not. Perhaps it was reported on in a way to make them look guilty. Perhaps the illness was not reported on. Perhaps it should not have been reported on at all. Perhaps people should educate themselves about the effects of mental illness beyond depression and anxiety. If people were aware of that and had context then the reputational damage wouldn't be there any longer.

WrinklyNeck

Graces7 wrote: »

No as you are simply acting on your "values system", It is totally simple. Forgiving others is central Depends though what that system is . Mine depends on not bearing grudges and forgiving. No peace else.

What if the very person who intended on getting revenge on was the person who gave you that advice? And if they gave it at a point in time during your grieving process that was before the point where you decided to forgive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqCmkbtWRVY

Graces7

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

What if the very person who intended on getting revenge on was the person who gave you that advice? And if they gave it at a point in time during your grieving process that was before the point where you decided to forgive?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqCmkbtWRVY

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us. He forgives us totally and unconditionally and without bearing a grudge. Our sin is wiped clean. Jesus teaches that time and time and time again. As when He speaks with the woman caught in adultery.

Forgiving is OUR concern; whether the attacker says sorry or not does not matter, does not come into it.
Someone almost destroyed my very life long ago; I was given the grace to forgive her. Did not seek penitence. it gave me peace and freedom . .

And Jesus atoned for our sins; all of them. We are in the New Covenant not the Old testament

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

WrinklyNeck

Graces7 wrote: »

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us.

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

There's no point in forgiving someone if they don't deserve to be forgiven. It's often a cop out and it's actually selfish. And yes, if you don't forgive, it implies you want some sort of revenge.

There is definitely no point in forgiving someone if you still have to deal with that person. You will be letting your guard down. It is important to always remember so that you can spot the same patterns in their behavior.

Hego Damask

MrAbyss wrote: »

I know a guy who was falsely accused of rape by a woman who was placed in a psychiatric hospital after having made similar false complaints about other innocent men.

She was eventually released having been 'cured' and we are being told that her behavior was 'in the past' and we should let it go.

However, the funny thing is the innocent men she lied about - including one who went to court - are somehow 'rapists' for the rest of their lives. Except for one who is a pile of ashes from Glasnevin Crematorium having committed suicide.

I guess the notion of 'in the past' is arbitrary so.

What an utter c*nt!
Getting on with her life yeah ?

Homelander

Within reason (like, it wasn't a serious crime for example) if the matter is apologised for, the person displays genuine remorse, and their behavior, as far as you can see, has changed....then it's got weight as a phrase. However just saying "It's in the past" without any of that, without acknowledging the bad/poor behavior, is just cheap.

WrinklyNeck

Graces7 wrote: »

You are on a different wavelength here// Too many " what ifs" .. Grieving process? Forgiving is not a decision; it is a response.

Revenge? That does not enter into it.

The words re forgiving are not advice from anyone involved in any situation. They are in the Lord's Prayer. We forgive because God forgives us.

Did not check the youtube. Your post was too far off what I was meaning.

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

Graces7

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

In what way? He teaches us to forgive so we do. Ah about trust you mean? You took that part of my reply way out of context. We are not obliged to put ourselves in danger. Just as battered wives can and do forgive but would not be expected to go back into an abusive situation .

The issue here is about bearing grudges? About keeping anger alive in your mind? Damaging thing to do so we do not do it. Let folk off the hook and care about them. but do not walk into danger.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

Imagine if God took the same stance on forgiveness as you!

That got me thinking. God says to forgive, but only if the offender is truly contrite. He doesn't say to forgive unconditionally. Indeed, he doesn't do so himself, or there'd be no eternal damnation in hell for transgressors.

This forgiveness malarkey is not straight forward.

Graces7

WrinklyNeck wrote: »

There's no point in forgiving someone if they don't deserve to be forgiven. It's often a cop out and it's actually selfish. And yes, if you don't forgive, it implies you want some sort of revenge.

There is definitely no point in forgiving someone if you still have to deal with that person. You will be letting your guard down. It is important to always remember so that you can spot the same patterns in their behavior.

Where does " deserve" come into this? Who are we to judge? Forvieness applies whether they deserve it or not. Cop out? Oh you mean "revenge"? That never enters the equation. It really doesn't. And how is it selfish? >

Forgiving does not have to " have a point" . it is its own "point". And all the more so when you do have to be around the person.

We are on differenr wavelengths so I will leave it here. .

Interesting discussion thank you.

Forty Seven

Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Graces7

Forty Seven wrote: »

Resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

exactly and then blaming the person for your pain..

One eyed Jack

Graces7 wrote: »

agree totally but there is a facet of trust that takes thinking about? Put it like this maybe. If I am walking over a bridge with someone and they push me off. I will find it in me while I am recovering in hospital to fully forgive them

But I would not walk over a bridge with them again. Whether or not they apologise by the way is immaterial in this. We forgive for our own peace and mental health

Trust has been destroyed.

I know what you mean, some people make it incredibly difficult to forgive them, but I trust people because I want to trust people. I would walk over the bridge again with that person, because I want to trust that person.

There have been times of course when that hasn’t worked out so well, but there have been many more times when giving someone a second chance and in many cases third and fourth chances, has only made the bond of trust between us that much stronger.

It’s difficult, and I do understand what you mean about the need to protect oneself once that trust has been violated, but for me I’ve always thought of being unwilling to trust someone as cutting off my nose to spite my face. I don’t ever want to not trust people, because putting my trust in people has a far more protective benefit than the pain caused when that trust is violated.

Mad_maxx

Graces7 wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That you could let go just reflects the level of damage done, not much.

I only bear a grudge against one person on this earth and I have not spoken to them in twenty one years, i could be dead for all they know, that's a reflection of the mark they left. Not a day goes by that they don't cross my mind.

Very few people are masochists so it's nothing short of glib to say "they should just get over it"

Only person suffering is you.. not letting go is toxic. Does not affect the other person.

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

Graces7

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know what you mean, some people make it incredibly difficult to forgive them, but I trust people because I want to trust people. I would walk over the bridge again with that person, because I want to trust that person.

There have been times of course when that hasn’t worked out so well, but there have been many more times when giving someone a second chance and in many cases third and fourth chances, has only made the bond of trust between us that much stronger.

It’s difficult, and I do understand what you mean about the need to protect oneself once that trust has been violated, but for me I’ve always thought of being unwilling to trust someone as cutting off my nose to spite my face. I don’t ever want to not trust people, because putting my trust in people has a far more protective benefit than the pain caused when that trust is violated.

it is a hard one and I do know what you mean. The situation that comes to mind is that of a woman who has been abused by her husband. Forgives him l goes back then gets beaten up again. Sometimes to death. This is why such women are advised not to go back and go into refuges.
That is why I used an example that involved serious physical injury.

Wilfully going knowingly into a dangerous situation? Not a question of willingness but of wisdom. You CAN forgive and stay out of reach.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No . It means growing past it . Nothing you can do about what was done. I had a terrible battle with it and as soon as I let go, there was peace. It stopped eating at me. Did not matter any more

But that is your choice entirely.

Mad_maxx

Graces7 wrote: »

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No . It means growing past it . Nothing you can do about what was done. I had a terrible battle with it and as soon as I let go, there was peace. It stopped eating at me. Did not matter any more

But that is your choice entirely.

It's not my choice, as I said earlier, very few people are masochists, if something can't be forgiven, it's because the effect was too great

We are not in control of everything as if a switch can just be flicked

con___manx1

Dorothy Cold Souvenir wrote: »

Why? In the context that she then went to a psych ward, the most likely scenario is that she genuinely believed she was raped, and that she was not in full control of herself. This would have been symptomatic of an illness she had. People generally don't go to psych wards unless they are significantly unwell and delusions are commonly part of that.

The problem of her illness was addressed. The problem of the distress and damage to the men accused was not. Perhaps it was reported on in a way to make them look guilty. Perhaps the illness was not reported on. Perhaps it should not have been reported on at all. Perhaps people should educate themselves about the effects of mental illness beyond depression and anxiety. If people were aware of that and had context then the reputational damage wouldn't be there any longer.

It could be just a cover up either. everything you said is here say. Maybe she just said she was mental because she was caught red handed making false accusations. I'm not saying your wrong by the way. We just don't no.
A guy I know had an accusation made against him that was not true. he had an alabi that he was hundreds of k away when the alleged incident happened.
It was a person that just had a serious grudge against him.
His reputation in the town where he is from was ruined and he ended up leaving the country.
It never even went to court.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Letting go means tolerating an injustice, that means living a lie

No; it is rising above the bad conduct of the other person. We all do wrong. All of us; would you expect to be treated as you are treating others?

You are inflicting pain on you. And on you alone.

Graces7

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's not my choice, as I said earlier, very few people are masochists, if something can't be forgiven, it's because the effect was too great

We are not in control of everything as if a switch can just be flicked

Entirely your choice to go on suffering. That is letting the other person win and control your life even more.

There is nothing that cannot be forgiven. The desire for revenge is worse than the injustice. Poison.

I never again met the person who abused a high official position to try to destroy my life. In her view she had actually done so. But I bear her no illwill; she failed and failed only because I forgave her and had compassion for her. She was suffering clearly.. Which she never knew about either. Doing this healed and liberated me. We choose our own chains.

No I was not in control of that situation. I was and am in control of how I acted and then thought afterwards. Still am in every situation.

PS thank you for your posts. I had not thought about that situation for many years. And realise that appalling and life threatening as it was there is not one iota of pain or resentment in me. It was well over 25 years ago now. I made the choice and flicked the switch. Chose not to let it stay in my heart or life.

THANK YOU !

Oh and actually it was the best response as it showed the act had not succeeded in its purpose. Forgiving does that.Not forgiving is to copy the offender and let them win. Here for you

closing dwon through increasing illness