Hollystown closing

mark316 · 30-09-2019 9:53pm #1

End of an era for hollystown golf club, its closing for good at end of the year. Writing has been on the wall since glenveagh properties bought it last year. Pity for all staff and members

slave1 · 01-10-2019 8:49am

Wow, a nice neat course, a certain loss in golfing terms, glad I got to play it before the final day, if you have not played it yet it's certainly worth the effort while there's still the chance

charlieIRL · 01-10-2019 12:40pm

mark316 wrote: »

End of an era for hollystown golf club, its closing for good at end of the year. Writing has been on the wall since glenveagh properties bought it last year. Pity for all staff and members

Have you a link to where thats posted?

mark316 · 01-10-2019 12:59pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Have you a link to where thats posted?

There was meeting in club yesterday were staff and members were told

They dont have permission for houses yet, but club not making money so there closing it

finglashoop · 01-10-2019 1:03pm

How many staff were there?

How many members?

finglashoop · 01-10-2019 1:05pm

mark316 wrote: »

They dont have permission for houses yet, but club not making money so there closing it

Are they closing it to force through planning while it sits idle?

mark316 · 01-10-2019 1:08pm

finglashoop wrote: »

Are they closing it to force through planning while it sits idle?

Id say so, its glenveagh properties so they know what there doing.
Prob 10/20 staff and 300 plus members

fred funk }{ · 01-10-2019 1:45pm

With the pressure on housing, planning won't be a problem, in fact, you can be sure they've already got the nod .

PhilOssophy · 01-10-2019 3:47pm

Played it a few times, its a nice enough course and a pity to see it closing. Not convinced I believe the "Not making money" part, it was always busy when I was there. I would say more likely "not making as much as can be made with housing".
Nice clubhouse and generally friendly atmosphere in the place. Didn't have the stuffiness of plenty of Dublin clubs.
Sorry to hear this.

BigChap1759 · 01-10-2019 8:44pm

Not a great course but it was the first place I joined in Ireland as it and elm green were the only clubs in Dublin I could afford to join during the Celtic tiger.

Unfortunately we still have too many courses for the number of full time players and lots of options in the vicinity

newindublin · 02-10-2019 12:26am

I only played one time and left not wanting to return, I can't help but feel that is probably a part of why it has closed. I seem to recall there was a ditch across every other fairway at just about where you might drive the ball. That's a gimmic I only want to see on one hole at most per 18.

I am never a fan of any course closing though, and I do applaud the original vision of an approachable pay and play course.

uanr123 · 02-10-2019 11:27pm

Long time following golf forum. First time post. Member for 4 years in Hollystown. Obviously extremely disappointed with latest news. Just wondering where other members are moving to and reasons why? I haven't decided on course yet myself but leaning towards Ck as living south side.

slave1 · 03-10-2019 9:48am

Off topic Cycling posts removed to new thread, please stay on topic, thanks

blue note · 03-10-2019 10:43am

I've only played the course once and wasn't blown away by it. But it's a real shame to hear of this closing. I hear deerpark is going too. These are the courses that make golf accessible to people. And are the ones that get people into the game - not many are going to pay €1500 to be a beginner I a club.

Mantis Toboggan · 03-10-2019 1:15pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Unfortunately we still have too many courses for the number of full time players and lots of options in the vicinity

By this are you saying there are courses in Dublin that have small membership numbers and unable to attract new members?

BigChap1759 · 03-10-2019 5:30pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

By this are you saying there are courses in Dublin that have small membership numbers and unable to attract new members?

I’m saying there are too many clubs to be able to sustain the reducing number of golfers, operating at a loss.

GreeBo · 03-10-2019 5:54pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

I’m saying there are too many clubs to be able to sustain the reducing number of golfers, operating at a loss.

Maybe not at a loss, but they are having to run at a quality level that makes them kinda pointless other than ease of access for locals.

Mantis Toboggan · 03-10-2019 8:17pm

What were the membership numbers in hollystown?

billy3sheets · 04-10-2019 10:53pm

I see a lot of Hollystown members in the Wednesday open in St Margaret's this week.
Not much distance between the 2 clubs so expect a few to join.
Won 1st and 2nd too, so obviously able to handle the step up in quality

BigChap1759 · 04-10-2019 11:05pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Maybe not at a loss, but they are having to run at a quality level that makes them kinda pointless other than ease of access for locals.

From memory it was always a commercially run course so no profit = no business? Appreciate St Margarets is the same.

It was never the best conditioned course, it’s strength was in having 3 9s so a decent bit of variety when mixing up the competition 18.

BigChap1759 · 04-10-2019 11:07pm

Definitely a shame for the members but hopefully they will have decent local options and make other local courses more viable in the long run

Golfhead65 · 05-10-2019 6:02pm

Elm Green will surely benefit from an influx of members from Hollystown as it's not far away and membership fees would be considerably less than other courses around

princess poppy · 05-10-2019 6:20pm

Golfhead65 wrote: »

Elm Green will surely benefit from an influx of members from Hollystown as it's not far away and membership fees would be considerably less than other courses around

Have you played elm green?

PhilOssophy · 05-10-2019 9:09pm

princess poppy wrote: »

Have you played elm green?

Elmgreen is a hovel in my view, I have played it a couple of times and didn't think anything of the place.

Remind me · 05-10-2019 9:18pm

Carr golf we’re running Hollystown so maybe some will go to Castleknock.

Hollystown certainly lost out when other dublin courses relaxed joining fees and golf became more affordable.

Disappointed for the members as I would know a lot of them and while there was a huge turnover in members there was a good core group who have been there for a long time.

Writing has been on the wall since the CPO on part of the land and then it being sold to the builders.

princess poppy · 05-10-2019 9:23pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Elmgreen is a hovel in my view, I have played it a couple of times and didn't think anything of the place.

My point exactly, I can’t see why anyone would join there especially coming from any other golf course

davegilly · 05-10-2019 9:40pm

princess poppy wrote: »

My point exactly, I can’t see why anyone would join there especially coming from any other golf course

Hollystown would be similar to Elmgreen, maybe a little better but not much. Price wise it would also be similar and not far away either.

I can see a lot of members going there especially when you also get to play Corballis as part of your Elmgreen membership. Corballis is like a manna from heaven compared to the ****e we have in parklands from now to next March.

PhilOssophy · 05-10-2019 9:42pm

Hollystown was a far better course at its worst than Elmgreen has been at its best! Unless I was just unlucky when I played it.

princess poppy · 06-10-2019 10:29pm

davegilly wrote: »

Corballis is like a manna from heaven compared to the ****e we have in parklands from now to next March.

You must be playing the wrong courses if you feel that strongly

Dk1986 · 01-01-2020 3:02pm

From someone who has worked in Hollystown up to recently, the place was not making any money. The clubhouse and courses have been neglect since Glenveigh/Carr Golf took over and the writing has been on the wall for the past year.

Feel incredibly sorry for the members as they were some of the nicest people I’ve ever met and Hollystown was more a communal meeting place than simply just a golf course.

Remind me · 02-01-2020 9:50pm

100 odd have joined Corrstown. Not sure what the pressure is currently like on the timesheets but that is a big influx.

Did Carr golf have any genuine interest in keeping Hollystown going?

Nedser101 · 02-01-2020 10:07pm

Ex Hollystown member here! Carr golf didn’t seem to have any interest in the coarse. It had deteriorated a lot in the last 2 years. There was an offer from Carr golf to join there other managed courses at a discount. I don’t think many took up their offer as there was a lot of anamosity towards them.
Where the members went . I think about 80 went to corrstown. I went to St Margaret’s with about another 20. The ladies club moved to st Margaret’s about 30.and the rest are scattered around all the north co Dublin/ Meath clubs.
A very sad day Tuesday!

blue note · 02-01-2020 10:34pm

Strange from Carr golf - I thought they were generally very good wherever they went. Especially on course conditioning.

Oilbeefhooked! · 02-01-2020 10:44pm

Nedser101 wrote:

Ex Hollystown member here! Carr golf didnâ€™t seem to have any interest in the coarse. It had deteriorated a lot in the last 2 years. There was an offer from Carr golf to join there other managed courses at a discount. I donâ€™t think many took up their offer as there was a lot of anamosity towards them. Where the members went . I think about 80 went to corrstown. I went to St Margaretâ€™s with about another 20. The ladies club moved to st Margaretâ€™s about 30.and the rest are scattered around all the north co Dublin/ Meath clubs. A very sad day Tuesday!

Was Castleknock offered at a reduced rate?

Nedser101 · 02-01-2020 10:50pm

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

Was Castleknock offered at a reduced rate?

Yes Castleknock was offered at a reduced rate of €1600
Based on 01/01/2020 - 31/03/2021

PhilOssophy · 03-01-2020 9:58am

Hollystown is a big loss in my view, it was a decent course a few years ago and Dublin lacks the under 1k golf membership for those of us who want to play but aren't willing to pay 1200+ to play golf, I know there's always Elmgreen......moving on.
It was always a friendly course with nice people, it definitely lacked the snooty element which is in every course, or maybe I didn't see it in my visits.

gypsy79 · 03-01-2020 12:00pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Hollystown is a big loss in my view, it was a decent course a few years ago and Dublin lacks the under 1k golf membership for those of us who want to play but aren't willing to pay 1200+ to play golf, I know there's always Elmgreen......moving on.
It was always a friendly course with nice people, it definitely lacked the snooty element which is in every course, or maybe I didn't see it in my visits.

Have you actually played Elmgreen since CARR took it over?

blue note · 03-01-2020 12:11pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Have you actually played Elmgreen since CARR took it over?

Reputations last a long time! Corballis had 3 holes which it replaced about 12 years ago. Apparently they were terrible, not worth playing. Now when people play the course they talk about the weak "non links" holes. I know full well that they're referring to those holes that are long gone, but they're trying to figure out which holes they are when playing so they can say these are poor golf holes. 15 and 16 generally get blamed, whereas it was a now car park across the road which is where they actually were. Now 15 and 16 aren't the strongest holes in the course, but they're fine. Certainly they don't deserve the criticism they get.

gypsy79 · 03-01-2020 12:18pm

blue note wrote: »

Reputations last a long time! Corballis had 3 holes which it replaced about 12 years ago. Apparently they were terrible, not worth playing.

They were terrible. I played them in my first attempt to try play golf. They were across the road near where the two weak holes are now.

They were actually very dangerous. If I remember correctly one of them was actually very tough with a dog leg in a very usual place that nearly required it to be played as a par 5. They weren't links and I think actually got very wet!

PhilOssophy · 03-01-2020 12:55pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Have you actually played Elmgreen since CARR took it over?

No I can't say I have. Has it, and to say something controversial, the clientele, improved?

gypsy79 · 03-01-2020 1:01pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

No I can't say I have. Has it, and to say something controversial, the clientele, improved?

Immeasurably. As someone who used it before I know what you are talking about. There are no walk ups anymore.

I think most of that type of clientele have moved to Silogue which subsequently has dis-improved immeasurably in condition too. Having a good operator running your course is key!!

Carr run a tight ship and it is in their interest too. They get all the gains in the agreement they have reached with the council

PhilOssophy · 03-01-2020 1:05pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Immeasurably. As someone who used it before I know what you are talking about. There are no walk ups anymore.

I think most of that type of clientele have moved to Silogue which subsequently has dis-improved immeasurably in condition too. Having a good operator running your course is key!!

Carr run a tight ship and it is in their interest too. They get all the gains in the agreement they have reached with the council

Good to hear, I am still traumatised by playing behind a topless 3-ball on a roasting hot summers day, at least one of which had no business having his top off anywhere in public let alone a golf course!

The course was completely hacked up and with pitch marks, un-raked bunkers, etc everywhere. I never went back.

Sounds like it might be worth another try.

blue note · 03-01-2020 1:10pm

Am I right in thinking they've changed the course a bit in the last few years? I last played it at least 5 years ago. I was used to really poor conditions there to be honest, but the greens and fairways were terrific that day. Think Carr golf had it at that stage.

brick tamland · 03-01-2020 1:33pm

Never was a huge fan of the course but sad to see Hollystown close. During a time when I wasn’t a member anywhere, it was always handy to get a game at a decent timeslot on weekend, due to 27 hole set up. Also had a couple of lessons from Joe there and found him very good. Hope he finds himself another gig.

Also in a general point, this type of courses are needed to get people into the game. Places where you can play and learn for a reasonable amount. The less public style courses like Hollystown/Elm Green etc., there worse it is for the sport in general.

gypsy79 · 03-01-2020 2:27pm

blue note wrote: »

Am I right in thinking they've changed the course a bit in the last few years? I last played it at least 5 years ago. I was used to really poor conditions there to be honest, but the greens and fairways were terrific that day. Think Carr golf had it at that stage.

They invested 500k when they signed the deal with the council. Huge improvement immediately. They lengthened the first.

Use of two mats in winter (one all year round). There are plans to build new tee box that would remove that mat and improve 8 and 11!

The greens are the part that makes the course so tough. They are lightening in the summer!

RGS · 03-01-2020 2:32pm

brick tamland wrote: »

Also had a couple of lessons from Joe there and found him very good. Hope he finds himself another gig..

Joe is working in Roganstown. Nice addition to the club.

PhilOssophy · 03-01-2020 3:00pm

brick tamland wrote: »

Also in a general point, this type of courses are needed to get people into the game. Places where you can play and learn for a reasonable amount. The less public style courses like Hollystown/Elm Green etc., there worse it is for the sport in general.

100%, plenty of people are time poor and only want to play a couple of times a month also, Hollystown did this perfectly as I never heard anybody not getting on the timesheet.

Also, not everybody wants to pony up 1600 quid a year to play golf, these courses were by no means perfect but they are a perfect intro to the game at low cost.

It is a shame, and whats even worse is that it is being sold for housing in a part of the city with very poor links to the city, but that is an argument for another thread.

blue note · 03-01-2020 4:00pm

brick tamland wrote: »

Never was a huge fan of the course but sad to see Hollystown close. During a time when I wasn’t a member anywhere, it was always handy to get a game at a decent timeslot on weekend, due to 27 hole set up. Also had a couple of lessons from Joe there and found him very good. Hope he finds himself another gig.

Also in a general point, this type of courses are needed to get people into the game. Places where you can play and learn for a reasonable amount. The less public style courses like Hollystown/Elm Green etc., there worse it is for the sport in general.

I couldn't agree with this more btw. I think we went from 280 to 430 courses from the early 90s to late 00s. Loads of these courses were high end - if you look at the top 50 parkland courses, how many were built in this timeframe? The problem now is there are too many courses and some will have to close. My money is on the likes of hollystown and deer park in howth, bodenstown in kildare, etc. It's going to make golf far less accessible to people and damage the game overall.

mike12 · 03-01-2020 4:09pm

Before they built all the courses golf was for the rich and older generations.
Now it's much more available and affordable to everyone.
We have been talking about courses closing since 2008 and at this stage there are fewer than 10 or so closed as far as I can make out.
Membership may be dropping but the number of golfers who pay green fees and play in societies has risen.
Models may have to change but for the most part I think there will be very few closures going forward.

BarryD2 · 03-01-2020 4:18pm

PhilOssophy wrote: »

100%, plenty of people are time poor and only want to play a couple of times a month also, Hollystown did this perfectly as I never heard anybody not getting on the timesheet.

From a societal point of view though, is it right to tie up tracts of land for golf courses that lie relatively idle and/or underused?

blue note · 03-01-2020 4:29pm

mike12 wrote: »

Before they built all the courses golf was for the rich and older generations.
Now it's much more available and affordable to everyone.
We have been talking about courses closing since 2008 and at this stage there are fewer than 10 or so closed as far as I can make out.
Membership may be dropping but the number of golfers who pay green fees and play in societies has risen.
Models may have to change but for the most part I think there will be very few closures going forward.

Ah you haven't needed to be rich to play golf in Ireland for a long time. I think of the older members in my club growing up, very normal people - teachers, guards, postmen, barmen. People with those jobs would struggle to play golf in other countries.

And there aren't many entry level courses around. But now hollystown is gone, I hear deerpark is sold, so I suspect it won't remain accessible to the masses. As the golfing population keeps getting older clubs will feel the pinch more and more, it's not only the recession that was a problem. It'll these types of courses that will be most likely to go.

Hollystown closing

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