Hard wired dash cam and car warranty

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 07:48PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I rarely agree with you Del :pac: but you're on the money there.

Piggy back fuse tho.

Are we not allowed to plug anything into the 12v socket now? Are we allowed to have have phones in the car? Pacemakers?

You could probably generate a voltage from a lemon if you wanted to, should we only buy main dealer approved citrus fruits?

kirving · 30-09-2019 07:49PM

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

. Electrically its partically the same plugging the dash cam into the existing 12V socket compared to the "new" 12V socket.

Practically the same is not the same though.

All the dealer has to say is how it's not certified by the manufacturer, that the manual says not to do it and how it may be the cause of the fault.

You then have to prove otherwise, which is impossible with broken car.

It's almost certainly fine, I did the same for my own car as I posted, but there's a chance it could damage something that you cannot anticipate.

This is why cars are A) designed

built and C) tested. The testing part is what catches faults that neither you nor I can anticipate until they're found.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 07:54PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Practically the same is not the same though.

All the dealer has to say is how it's not certified by the manufacturer, that the manual says not to do it and how it may be the cause of the fault.

You then have to prove otherwise, which is impossible with broken car.

It's almost certainly fine, I did the same for my own car as I posted, but there's a chance it could damage something that you cannot anticipate.

This is why cars are A) designed built and C) tested. The testing part is what catches faults that neither you nor I can anticipate until they're found.

Lol problem solved.

Piggy back fuse to magic 12v socket.

Measure the length of the magic wire from your magic fuse box to your magic oem 12v socket.

Source same length of magic dealer wire.

Et voila, any electrical gremlins are the exact same gremlins you would have had anyway. Or not. Completely depends on the quality of your plug in electronics.

12V FEMALE CIG SOCKET +PIGGY BACK LOW PROFILE MICRO BLADE FUSE HARD WIRE

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F202444477869

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2019 07:57PM

HailSatan wrote: »

Piggy back fuse tho.

You keep saying that as if it's some kind of defense.

Who knows the origin or quality of the fuse holder itself, the routing of the component wiring can cause it's own set if issues aside from magnetic field carry on.

I'd also be dismissing claims around dash rattles etc too.

To preserve the warranty you are obliged to keep it as it was built.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:06PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You keep saying that as if it's some kind of defense.

Who knows the origin or quality of the fuse holder itself, the routing of the component wiring can cause it's own set if issues aside from magnetic field carry on.

I'd also be dismissing claims around dash rattles etc too.

To preserve the warranty you are obliged to keep it as it was built.

You're basically saying only main dealer fuses are suitable. And that even a "Ford" 10A fuse might void your warranty if used in a VW.

kirving · 30-09-2019 08:10PM

HailSatan wrote: »

You're basically saying only main dealer fuses are suitable. And that even a "Ford" 10A fuse might void your warranty if used in a VW.

He's not. He's say that you have no idea of the potential effects of modifying the manufacturers wiring - that they spend literally millions of euro to design.

The potential issues are unlikely to happen, but could void your valuable warranty if they did occur.

Sometimes in life it's more important to know what you don't know, than what you do know.

bucketybuck · 30-09-2019 08:11PM

HailSatan wrote: »

And that even a "Ford" 10A fuse might void your warranty if used in a VW.

Modifying the vehicle specs is what voids your warranty, everything else is just window dressing.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:14PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

He's not. He's say that you have no idea of the potential effects of modifying the manufacturers wiring - that they spend literally millions of euro to design.

The potential issues are unlikely to happen, but could void your valuable warranty if they did occur.

Sometimes in life it's more important to know what you don't know, than what you do know.

How do you know the new fuse is qualified and certified?

How do you KNOW?

A FORD fuse isn't the same as a VW fuse is it? Is it?

Where do you source your certified fuses? .

Worse, remember the old phone kits that use to tap into the cars speaker wiring.

Holy Mary mother of God tis a wonder we weren't all kilt.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:15PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Modifying the vehicle specs is what voids your warranty, everything else is just window dressing.

Spurious normal fuse good.

Piggy back fuse from the same manufacturer. Certain death?

nogoodnamesleft · 30-09-2019 08:19PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Practically the same is not the same though.

All the dealer has to say is how it's not certified by the manufacturer, that the manual says not to do it and how it may be the cause of the fault.

You then have to prove otherwise, which is impossible with broken car.

It's almost certainly fine, I did the same for my own car as I posted, but there's a chance it could damage something that you cannot anticipate.

This is why cars are A) designed built and C) tested. The testing part is what catches faults that neither you nor I can anticipate until they're found.

It will probably be negligible compared to the rest of the circuit (in the region of milli ohms per metre length). If its that sensitive then a day which is too hot or too cold will affect it. If a car was that susceptible to emf something as slight as driving in close proximity to a high voltage power line would upset it.

From the OPs post nothing is actually broken its an over zellious service manger saying its not OEM or to factory spec. If something is allegedly causing an issue, a piggy back fuse is easy to remove and test to prove or disprove the theory.

Automotive testing as with other test enviroments leaves a lot of be desired, real world is considerably different compared to ideal lab conditions!

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:20PM

Seriously now... The kit I linked to. Piggy back fuse and a 12v socket attached.

Electrically how is this different?

Your car now has 3 or 4 12V sockets instead of the 2 or 3 it came with? Joseph and all the saints preserve us won't somebody think of the children!

Seriously... Electrically, what is the big gotcha in that case?

Toyotafanboi · 30-09-2019 08:23PM

HailSatan wrote: »

You're basically saying only main dealer fuses are suitable. And that even a "Ford" 10A fuse might void your warranty if used in a VW.

No I'm not saying the fuse. I'm saying the fuse holder. If you cannot differtiate between the two, then you're probably not the one to be having this arguement. The fuse holder, who knows the quality of the device, how do we know it's tested, reliable, fit for purpose? Who is signing off to say it's a sound modification?

That and ripping half the dash out to route the cables. Who can verify what was done? Was anything moved, broken, poorly reassembled?

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:23PM

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

It will probably be negligible compared to the rest of the circuit (in the region of milli ohms per metre length). If its that sensitive then a day which is too hot or too cold will affect it. If a car was that susceptible to emf something as slight as driving in close proximity to a high voltage power line would upset it.

From the OPs post nothing is actually broken its an over zellious service manger saying its not OEM or to factory spec. If something is allegedly causing an issue, a piggy back fuse is easy to remove and test to prove or disprove the theory.

Automotive testing as with other test enviroments leaves a lot of be desired, real world is considerably different compared to ideal lab conditions!

You probably have different tyres to the originals and some fancy Dan detailing company air freshener, I can tell by your psychopathic disregard for the general public :pac::pac:

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:24PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

No I'm not saying the fuse. I'm saying the fuse holder. If you cannot differtiate between the two, then you're probably not the one to be having this arguement. The fuse holder,

That and ripping half the dash out to route the cables. Who can verify what was done? Was anything moved, broken, poorly reassembled?

The fuse, who knows the quality of the device, how do we know it's tested, reliable, fit for purpose? Who is signing off to say it's a sound modification to use a Ford fuse in a VW car? It's not the original spec that lef the factory is it?

Is it?

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:31PM

Would halfords screenwash be OK or would you have to use VW screenwash in case the washer pumps died?

Philips bulbs be OK?

Would you need magic diesel flown over from Wolfsburg to keep it factory spec?

Little canisters of German compressed air or nitrogen (careful now)?

Drive around in lederhosen shovelling wieners in your gob?

991556712-1.jpg?w=525

swarlb · 30-09-2019 08:38PM

HailSatan wrote: »

Would halfords screenwash be OK or would you have to use VW screenwash in case the washer pumps died?

Philips bulbs be OK?

Would you need magic diesel flown over from Wolfsburg to keep it factory spec?

Little canisters of German compressed air or nitrogen (careful now)?

Drive around in lederhosen shovelling wieners in your gob?

To quote (sic) Oscar...
"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell"

And this thread, in true Boards fashion, has certainly proved that.....

DaveyDave · 30-09-2019 08:44PM

Would a daisy chain fuse carry the CE label?

I'd imagine something in the likes of Halfords would need to be of reputable quality. Maybe not much better than a spurious fuse off eBay, but it would surely need to meet guidelines?

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:44PM

swarlb wrote: »

To quote (sic) Oscar...
"We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell"

And this thread, in true Boards fashion, has certainly proved that.....

I heard the Joe Duffys shouting 'Damn your soul!'

Till Homer's ghost came whispering to my mind.

A local row.

Gods make their own importance.

bucketybuck · 30-09-2019 08:46PM

HailSatan wrote: »

Spurious normal fuse good.

Piggy back fuse from the same manufacturer. Certain death?

Who are you even responding to with this rubbish?

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:48PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Who are you even responding to with this rubbish?

Which bit do you disagree with?

kirving · 30-09-2019 08:50PM

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

It will probably be negligible compared to the rest of the circuit (in the region of milli ohms per metre length). If its that sensitive then a day which is too hot or too cold will affect it. If a car was that susceptible to emf something as slight as driving in close proximity to a high voltage power line would upset it.

From the OPs post nothing is actually broken its an over zellious service manger saying its not OEM or to factory spec. If something is allegedly causing an issue, a piggy back fuse is easy to remove and test to prove or disprove the theory.

Automotive testing as with other test enviroments leaves a lot of be desired, real world is considerably different compared to ideal lab conditions!

It's not as simple as DC resistance only. Does the fuse tap act as an aerial, is the wire coiled, can it overheat, did you loosen anything else while at it?

The car is sold as full system that meet certain standards. Messing with the wiring, however slight, shifts the responsibility to you to prove that absolutely nothing unexpected could possibly have come from the work. That's something you (or I) don't have the ability, equipment or cash to do - so the manufacturer can rightfully void the warranty.

We don't know that nothing is broken to be fair, just that it hasn't been noticed. Did the fuse tap get too hot and melt some solder on the fuseboard? Will this only be a problem when it gets cold and cracks? Very unlikely - buy why take the chance?

Automotive testing is incredibly rigorous, down to component level on circuit boards. Warranty costs are just too high to leave anything to chance. If you think they're tested in lab conditions, you're entirely mistaken.

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 08:58PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

It's not as simple as DC resistance only. Does the fuse tap act as an aerial, is the wire coiled, can it overheat, did you loosen anything else while at it?

The car is sold as full system that meet certain standards. Messing with the wiring, however slight, shifts the responsibility to you to prove that absolutely nothing unexpected could possibly have come from the work. That's something you (or I) don't have the ability, equipment or cash to do - so the manufacturer can rightfully void the warranty.

We don't know that nothing is broken to be fair, just that it hasn't been noticed. Did the fuse tap get too hot and melt some solder on the fuseboard? Will this only be a problem when it gets cold and cracks? Very unlikely - buy why take the chance?

Automotive testing is incredibly rigorous, down to component level on circuit boards. Warranty costs are just too high to leave anything to chance. If you think they're tested in lab conditions, you're entirely mistaken.

They're kinda meant to be driven afterwards though. How much movement in a wiring loom is too much? Anything that changes it from factory spec?

Would halfords screenwash be OK or would you have to use VW screenwash in case the washer pumps died?

Philips bulbs be OK?

Would you need magic diesel flown over from Wolfsburg to keep it factory spec?

Little canisters of German compressed air or nitrogen (careful now)?

Drive around in lederhosen shovelling wieners in your gob?

bucketybuck · 30-09-2019 09:01PM

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

If something is allegedly causing an issue, a piggy back fuse is easy to remove and test to prove or disprove the theory.

You have to know it is there first.

Which is the biggest problem with aftermarket bits and pieces, you have some intermittent problem throwing up random fault codes in an ECU, fluctuating resistances etc etc, and your trouble testing doesn't take into account this random little bit of wiring that you didn't know was in the vehicle. Its simple when you track it down, but you burn more hours than you needed to getting to that point.

We've never voided anybodys warranty for stuff like that, who needs that hassle so its see no evil hear no evil as far as we are concerned, but its still frustrating to find that the intermittent fault you were chasing was caused by some cowboy who thinks all wires are equal.

gctest50 · 30-09-2019 09:01PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

......

The car is sold as full system that meet certain standards. ............

Most are also skinned down to death cost-wise

You can't put in garden chairs as seats and string for steering and it's not a Ford fiesta/ Nissan micra with points - ranting about points the amount of them that can't understand/ explain kettering ignition but will happily spout sh!te about hpw you should be able to connect halfolds finest to any old terminal that works is unreal

TLDR: car manufacturers should provide a pair of screw terminals at the top of the fusebox for dashcams

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:02PM

Seriously

Ford 10A fuse in a VW.

Warranty voiding?

To be avoided, but OK in life or death scenarios?

Worth trucking it to the main dealer just in case?

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:03PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Most are also skinned down to death cost-wise

You can't put in garden chairs as seats and string for steering and it's not a Ford fiesta/ Nissan micra with points - ranting about points the amount of them that can't understand/ explain kettering ignition but will happily spout sh!te about hpw you should be able to connect halfolds finest to any old terminal that works is unreal

TLDR: car manufacturers should provide a pair of screw terminals at the top of the fusebox for dashcams

Main dealer approved dash cams I assume

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:04PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

You have to know it is there first.

Which is the biggest problem with aftermarket bits and pieces, you have some intermittent problem throwing up random fault codes in an ECU, fluctuating resistances etc etc, and your trouble testing doesn't take into account this random little bit of wiring that you didn't know was in the vehicle. Its simple when you track it down, but you burn more hours than you needed to getting to that point.

We've never voided anybodys warranty for stuff like that, who needs that hassle so its see no evil hear no evil as far as we are concerned, but its still frustrating to find that the intermittent fault you were chasing was caused by some cowboy who thinks all wires are equal.

Piggy back fuse tho. What went wrong.

kirving · 30-09-2019 09:08PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Most are also skinned down to death cost-wise

TLDR: car manufacturers should provide a pair of screw terminals at the top of the fusebox for dashcams

Totally, manufacturers make very little per car in reality, the Tier 1 suppliers even less.

Absolutely, no reason except for cost that it's not done. Isolated 5V 2A supply by the rearview mirror would be perfect.

Oops! · 30-09-2019 09:12PM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

As an engineer, I'd be on your side, in terms of basic electronics.

As an engineer who works in sensitive automotive electronics, I'm afraid he's correct, even if "Balance the current around the car" is not the right way to put it.

There may be additional interference filtering between the 12V socket that you can't see, or generated purely by the design/length of cable routing to the outlet.

By directly interfering with the fusebox you could upset this, and may cause EMI in areas that the car was not tested to comply with. It would be tested with the expectation that the customer would connect at the 12V socket itself. In that sense, you have interfered with the electronics and they'd be entitled to void the warranty.

Now in 99.9% of cases, it's absolutely fine and the car can deal with it, but there absolutely is a potential to affect another system. I wired a dashcam in the exact same way as yourself - all good. Also did a USB port to charge a phone - radio reception cut out entirely.

You don't want to be arguing the toss when it comes to a car under warranty, as when you get to sensitive electronics. I can't go into it but I have seen some crazy effects of interference between car electronics systems that you would never think possible.

Spot on... In the trade myself. OP this is the opinion you need to take most notice of in a nutshell....

HailSatan · 30-09-2019 09:23PM

Oops! wrote: »

Spot on... In the trade myself. OP this is the opinion you need to take most notice of in a nutshell....

Electrically, what would be the problem here?

Lol problem solved.

Piggy back fuse to magic 12v socket.

Measure the length of the magic wire from your magic fuse box to your magic oem 12v socket.

Source same length of magic dealer wire.

Et voila, any electrical gremlins are the exact same gremlins you would have had anyway. Or not. Completely depends on the quality of your plug in electronics.

12V FEMALE CIG SOCKET +PIGGY BACK LOW PROFILE MICRO BLADE FUSE HARD WIRE

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F202444477869

Hard wired dash cam and car warranty

Comments