Hard wired dash cam and car warranty

HailSatan

They may as well shut down the DIY forum here if a fella doing a tidy job of powering a dash cam through a piggyback fuse is considered damaging your car.

Smaller tyres on on axle than the other? No problem.

Ditching run flats? No problem.

Remap? No problem.

Piggy back fuse and everybody loses their minds...

bucketybuck

HailSatan wrote: »

They may as well shut down the DIY forum here if a fella doing a tidy job of powering a dash cam through a piggyback fuse is considered damaging your car.

You still don't seem to get it. Is that intentional?

HailSatan

bucketybuck wrote: »

You still don't seem to get it. Is that intentional?

Probably because nobody could answer my questions when it came to it.

What is the damaging difference between running next base dashcam from the standard 12v socket compared to running it from a 12v socket attached to the Piggyback fuse?

nogoodnamesleft

Irish Stones wrote: »

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Looks neat enough but a professional would have removed any of the excess 12v cable after the fuse rather than cable tie-ing it up, wouldn’t have used the crimping terminal (probably would’ve just joined & soldered the wire) & they’d have covered it all in black cloth tape to make it nice & neat.

The dash cam (and its kit) too comes with its warranty, so I thought that any alteration of the supplied material (including the hard wiring kit) might have made the dash cam warranty void in case of an issue.
Crimping a wire into a terminal does not add any problem with the circuit continuity. As a matter of fact, I saw more problems with bad soldering or solderings that break up due to vibrations.
Covering the wiring with black cloth tape would have been a nice touch, though, you're right.
I only covered the part of witing that goes to the second lighter socket, by using a nylon sleeve.

On the blackvue system I fitted there is a warning label on the supplied DC supply not to alter it or it will void the warranty of the dash cam presumably there is power filtering to deal with power quality issues in the car from the alternator and all the in car electronics. Obviously if you were to chop it off an join it directly to the DC supply from the piggy back fuse it may see a spike say when starting the car possibly blowing the electronics prior to the fuse blowing.

HailSatan

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

On the blackvue system I fitted there is a warning label on the supplied DC supply not to alter it or it will void the warranty of the dash cam presumably there is power filtering to deal with power quality issues in the car from the alternator and all the in car electronics. Obviously if you were to chop it off an join it directly to the DC supply from the piggy back fuse it may see a spike say when starting the car possibly blowing the electronics prior to the fuse blowing.

Obviously sticking a fork into a mains distribution board is a silly idea.


Apart from stating the sky is blue though.... If you were to install an auxiliary 12v socket or the manufacturers own dedicated hardwire kit...

kirving

TherapyBoy wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with your wiring.

I think the wiring is OK. However, if I was to be super critical, I couldn't accept this on a industrial machinery that I'm responsible for in work, nor would I want it on an aircraft.

The additional length of wire leave more room for failure and more chance of it being snagged - but the OP has rightly balanced this risk against that of the dashcam warranty.

HailSatan wrote: »

Probably because nobody could answer my questions when it came to it.

What is the damaging difference between running next base dashcam from the standard 12v socket compared to running it from a 12v socket attached to the Piggyback fuse?

I'm not going to respond to you beyond this last post, because your trolling is seriously tiring at this stage, but anyway.

1. The OEM 12V socket has been designed by the manufacturer, respecting whatever legislation is in force to the letter.
   
2. The design was subjected to a DFMEA, to ensure that a short circuit will not set the car on fire, electrocute anyone, or overload another circuit.
   
3. The design would be fully loaded to ensure the alternator, battery and control system can still run the airbags and traction control no matter what else in added to the circuit - subject to a CE certified device below the 15A limit on the OEM socket.
   
4. The design would be put through horrendous reliability testing in all conditions from -40°C to 80°C, 100% humidity, put in a vibration chamber for an extend period and sprayed with all manner of chemicals to make sure nothing caused it to degrade over 15 years of use that could case a problem.
   
5. The machine which assembled it was subject to a PFMEA to ensure that it manufactured every single piece to within a tight tolerances and will detect failing parts.
   
6. All manner of current draw spikes will be tested with the OEM socket, and the cable routed as per the design to check for interference with sensors for the car's safety systems.
   
7. Electromagnetic Interference testing would be done with the cable to the OEM socket in place to ensure it did not act as an aerial (due to its position/length) that could generate interference that could affect other systems.
   

Manufacturers spend eye watering money on the above testing and more for every component in a car for a reason, not because they feel like it.

Has the home made system been certified to that standard?

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

They may as well shut down the DIY forum here if a fella doing a tidy job of powering a dash cam through a piggyback fuse is considered damaging your car.

Smaller tyres on on axle than the other? No problem.

Ditching run flats? No problem.

Remap? No problem.

Piggy back fuse and everybody loses their minds...

I don't think it's that it's that drastic but (especially now)everyone is particularly aware of the damage an electrical fault could do.

I'd bet you'll hear this more and more after recent events, no matter how unlikely/impossible it might be.

HailSatan

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Manufacturers spend eye watering money on the above testing and more for every component in a car for a reason, not because they feel like it.

Has the home made system been certified to that standard?

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket.

Eyewatering indeed.

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket.

Eyewatering indeed.

Does the chinese socket have a CE mark? Unfortunately I've found a lot of Chinese products don't even though they'll happily seel their items to EU countries, they can't be used

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

Does the chinese socket have a CE mark? Unfortunately I've found a lot of Chinese products don't even though they'll happily seel their items to EU countries, they can't be used

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket

TherapyBoy

HailSatan wrote: »

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket

Are we using them for chain-related jobs or for plugging in 12v accessories? Those German timing chains are strong enough but absolutely useless for plugging my phone charger into.

Irish Stones

Kevin Irving wrote: »

The additional length of wire leave more room for failure and more chance of it being snagged - but the OP has rightly balanced this risk against that of the dashcam warranty.

The reason why I safely and securely tied the excess wire to the original car wiring with cable ties is to make as sure as possible that those added wires do not get stucked into anything, nor do they get snagged, damaged, peeled, cut or anything.
I was also careful not to pull those cable ties too much in order not to dent the wire insulator.
But I'm also aware that anything can happen, regardless my level of prevention. I hope the 3A fuse is a good enough protection.

Manufacturers spend eye watering money on the above testing and more for every component in a car for a reason, not because they feel like it.

I agree on this, I work in car manifacturing, I know that.

Has the home made system been certified to that standard?

The whole home made system has certainly not certified to the standard. But the dash cam, its kit, the voltage regulator with its filter and fuse, etc, have been tested and certified to work on any car flawlessly, I want to believe this.

To some extent, it could be like a home wiring system. The power supply network in the house has been certified by a registered technician. Then you buy a fridge and a TV.
The certified technician might object that you have connected something that he himself hasn't tested and verified.
I know it isn't the same thing as the topic we're discussing, but maybe it is close enough.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

HailSatan

TherapyBoy wrote: »

Are we using them for chain-related jobs or for plugging in 12v accessories? Those German timing chains are strong enough but absolutely useless for plugging my phone charger into.

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket

kirving

Irish Stones wrote: »

The reason why I safely and securely tied the excess wire to the original car wiring with cable ties is to make as sure as possible that those added wires do not get stucked into anything, nor do they get snagged, damaged, peeled, cut or anything.
I was also careful not to pull those cable ties too much in order not to dent the wire insulator.
But I'm also aware that anything can happen, regardless my level of prevention. I hope the 3A fuse is a good enough protection.

I think you've done a good job, I'd be happy with it in my car. Nothing more you can do than what you have, while also maintaining the dashcam warranty.

Irish Stones wrote: »

To some extent, it could be like a home wiring system. The power supply network in the house has been certified by a registered technician. Then you buy a fridge and a TV.
The certified technician might object that you have connected something that he himself hasn't tested and verified.
I know it isn't the same thing as the topic we're discussing, but maybe it is close enough.
Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

I'll adjust that to say that a fridge or TV would be like plugging into the OEM 12V socket. Wiring in a cooker or shower would be akin to a fuse tap. Little to no difference between them, but if an electrician certifies your house before you install a cooker, they will make a note of this fact to cover themselves.

If the cooker shorts and damages the fretboard, the electrician can't really be held responsible. Not that it should, not that it's even remotely likely to happen, but nevertheless it's nothing to do with him.

As I've said before, I've done this exact thing myself, and I don't see a problem with it in isolation. The issue arises when people expect the manufacturer's warranty to remain valid.

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

Which would you think has a longer lifespan... A German timing chain or a Chinese 12V accessory socket

German timing chain, using a 12v socket for valve timing would be just stupid.

Unless you were silly enough to buy a BM lol, the chain has a lifespan in miles, it's a consumable, the socket shouldn't be, if you were to subject the chain to the same use as the socket it would outlast it a thousand times over (even a BMW one).

HailSatan

A dash cam plugged into an auxiliary socket sees more hours of use than a chain if there is a parking mode.

Which one will outlast the other? German Chain? Chinese 12v socket?

Irish Stones

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I think you've done a good job, I'd be happy with it in my car. Nothing more you can do than what you have, while also maintaining the dashcam warranty.

Thanks Kevin, you sound like a pro indeed, so I do welcome your opinion and feedback.

The issue arises when people expect the manufacturer's warranty to remain valid.

So we're back to the topic

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

A dash cam plugged into an auxiliary socket sees more hours of use than a chain if there is a parking mode.

Which one will outlast the other? German Chain? Chinese 12v socket?

Already answered, and yes, wear taken into account the chain (even a German one) wins every time, if it's just time then the socket should last longer as it encounters no wear, not a like for like comparison as each have vastly different demands.

That said, I've had dozens, literally of Chinese sockets and all gave up the ghost long before any chain or belt in the car.

kirving

Irish Stones wrote: »

Thanks Kevin, you sound like a pro indeed, so I do welcome your opinion and feedback.

Key part of that sentence! Reminds me, I have to get a hardwire kit for my own car again and do some fiddling.

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

Already answered, and yes, wear taken into account the chain (even a German one) wins every time, if it's just time then the socket should last longer as it encounters no wear, not a like for like comparison as each have vastly different demands.

That said, I've had dozens, literally of Chinese sockets and all gave up the ghost long before any chain or belt in the car.

So all the eyewateringly expensive testing... That was the expected lifetime of those chains? 50k km?

Or are you saying that the testing doesn't take use into account?

Taking wear into account, which has better testing... The chinese socket or the German Chain.

A photo please of all these failed sockets. What was the failure mode.

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

So all the eyewateringly expensive testing... That was the expected lifetime of those chains? 50k km?

Or are you saying that the testing doesn't take use into account?

Taking wear into account, which has better testing... The chinese socket or the German Chain.

A photo please of all these failed sockets. What was the failure mode.

What are you on about? There is no comparison between a chain and a socket.


I don't test the failed sockets not photograph them I simply bin them and buy another, they're consumable in my eyes just like the chain.

Back on topic, there is no problem that I'm aware of using a Chinese socket in any car as long as you have the manufacturer's go-ahead to do so.

Fitting would probably have to go through a dealership etc, they would prefer to supply the parts of course but if you go to a dealership in China I'm sure they will oblige.



On a side note I've driven German cars for years and never had a chain fail.

If the manufacturer tests an item and gives it a 'life-span' then that's just how long they're sure it will last, consider that a recommendation.

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

What are you on about? There is no comparison between a chain and a socket.

.

So.. You are saying the testing doesn't take expected use case into account?

Is the chain a consumable, or does it out last the car? You've implied both.

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

Back on topic, there is no problem that I'm aware of using a Chinese socket in any car as long as you have the manufacturer's go-ahead to do so.

Fitting would probably have to go through a dealership etc, they would prefer to supply the parts of course but if you go to a dealership in China I'm sure they will oblige.

What about Chinese tyres? Would you need a special letter of dispensation from Ze Chancellor?

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

If the manufacturer tests an item and gives it a 'life-span' then that's just how long they're sure it will last, consider that a recommendation.

What was the recommended interval in the service book for the TSI or x20d chains?

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

What was the recommended interval in the service book for the TSI or x20d chains?

Not a clue, never drove either.

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

What about Chinese tyres? Would you need a special letter of dispensation from Ze Chancellor?

Are they CE marked? If so then they already have the special letters needed.

bladespin

HailSatan wrote: »

So.. You are saying the testing doesn't take expected use case into account?

Is the chain a consumable, or does it out last the car? You've implied both.

You have completely lost me on this chain/socket thing, no idea where you're trying to go with it.

But just to mollify the trolling, a chain left on a shelf and electrified with 5v (like a socket) would theoretically last forever; well a very, very, very long time.

A chain working in an engine will eventually wear out, not sure how you could get a Chinese socket to do the same job in similar conditions though but would sit and watch you try but if you did manage it I'm sure the socket would wear out faster, pretty sure it would be useless after the first splash of oil.

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

I don't test the failed sockets not photograph them I simply bin them and buy another, they're consumable in my eyes just like the chain.
.

What was the failure mode.

Would you not think to check and try to find a better solution if you're going through dozens and dozens and dozens of the things?

There's surely one hanging around at that rate?

No?

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

You have completely lost me on this chain/socket thing, no idea where you're trying to go with it.

But just to mollify the trolling, a chain left on a shelf and electrified with 5v (like a socket) would theoretically last forever; well a very, very, very long time.

A chain working in an engine will eventually wear out.

Does the testing take use case into account

HailSatan

bladespin wrote: »

Are they CE marked? If so then they already have the special letters needed.

So I don't need to ship my car to a Chinese dealer to get Chinese tyres fitted?


But I do if I want a Chinese accessory socket fitted