Do you believe in God?

Chancer3001 · 28-09-2019 09:37PM

There's about 3000 recorded God's throughout history.

So if you believe in God, and I dont, it just means I believe in one less god than you.

You think 2999 are absolute nonsense made up by delusional folk to explain their universe simply.

I've pushed the boat out to 3000.

stratowide · 28-09-2019 09:44PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do believe there is something after death but I'm not sure what it is.

There will be loads happening after our deaths.unfortunately we wont be involved in any of it.

nacho libre · 28-09-2019 10:12PM

[QUOTE=Uriel.;111366963. I hope there is some form of aferlife. But probably not. I've a, probably irrational, fear of death and nothingness so I think I cling into a little bit of belief to reassure myself that there's more to come[/QUOTE]

To me nothingness is preferable to eternity. Finality gives lifes meaning. I don't see the point of fearing nothingness either. I was nothing before i existed, and i was fine.

20Wheel · 28-09-2019 11:01PM

best advice ive seen on the subject is this; there may or may not be a god, we cant answer that. However, that god will not intervene in your life.

i find this to be true, having seen people in situations way more fcked up than any ill find myself in. god didnt intervene for people in warzones, adrift at sea, or stuck in an upturned car. so he/she/it wont be intervening to get you a promotion/laid/out of minor trouble.

by all means pray, but be sure to tie up your camel, as the old saying goes.

pgj2015 · 28-09-2019 11:10PM

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

How would people who don’t believe feel if they found out tomorrow that there actually was a God who was all seeing and knowing and we were answerable to him in an afterlife?

I for one would be delighted, it saddens me to think I may never see or speak to my Dad again hence why I struggle with my belief. Part of me says there is a God but I think a bigger part of me knows there isn’t and that genuinely does upset me.

I wouldnt change a thing and go on living exactly as i am. why would i be answerable to anyone?

smacl · 29-09-2019 10:23AM

Taliyah Vast Gofer wrote: »

Why does both the sun shine and the sky rain on the good and the evil?

The sun shines because it is a nuclear furnace and it rains or not based on prevalent weather conditions. Whether either fall on you depends pretty much on where you're standing regardless of what you happen to believe.

Dampsquid · 29-09-2019 12:04PM

vladmydad wrote: »

The void that’s being left from the decline of traditional religion is now being filled with climate alarmism. (I’m not saying climate change isn’t real but it’s definitely taking on a religious/cult element). This , to me, gives credence to the theory that religiosity may be hard wired into human beings.

Religion isn't hard wired, but trying to explain the unexplained is. I prefer the scientific approach. Theorising and then trying to prove/disprove - some people will just latch on to something and go with that or follow the crowd.

Christianity has only spread so widely due to it being adopted by the roman empire 1800 or so years ago.

What do religious people think of other religions, do you respect their beliefs? Do you feel sorry for them worshiping a false god?

Mad_maxx · 29-09-2019 12:17PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I do believe there is something after death but I'm not sure what it is.

I'm sort of the same, I'm not smart enough to definitively know that nothing happens, I don't believe in the conventional message surrounding God though, I spent a few years wrestling with the concept from the age of twenty one, came out the other end an agnostic, I don't have any wish to be conscious somewhere else when I pass on however

Mad_maxx · 29-09-2019 12:20PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

uptherebels wrote: »

No not confusing you with someone else, alas touch screen phones. You can't separate the church from its membership. Those that committed crimes were protected by others who are in turn supported by the rest.

I wasn’t separating the Church from it’s membership. I’m just not interested in suggesting that every member of the Church is complicit or tacitly approves of the wrongdoing of a minority of it’s members. Your suggesting that members of the Church are responsible for the actions of a minority of it’s members is the same in principle as suggesting that victims of abuse are responsible for the actions of the people who commit abuse against them given that they were, and the vast majority of victims of abuse still are, members of the same Catholic Church. You sure you want to stick to that logic? I’ll tell you now it’s nonsense if you so much as gave it more than 30 seconds thought.

uptherebels wrote: »

The difference to your ridiculous rape comparison is that men who commit rapes don't have the support and protection of any group or organisation in an effort to protect its power and money, least of all one that preaches "morality".

You’re actually serious? Of course they do. That’s precisely how they were able to commit rape and abuse and have their crimes covered up, because they have a combination of power, wealth and influence in society which enables them to weave their way into positions where they have the capacity to commit crimes and have them covered up, while all the time portraying themselves as pillars of their respective communities.

One would imagine the recent scandals in all different walks of life and organisations would have taught you that much, that corruption and malfeasance isn’t an intrinsic part of any ideology or community, but there are always the minority of opportunistic fcuks will manipulate people’s idealism for their own nefarious purposes. It doesn’t follow that all members of that community or all people who subscribe to a particular ideology are degenerate fcukwits.

Supporting institutions is seen as the respectable thing to do, it's the same with the guards, despite the endless scandals, people who criticise the guards are viewed as not being respectable.

Institutions thrive on the hypocrisy endemic in all of society

ILoveYourVibes · 29-09-2019 12:25PM

yes

wakka12 · 29-09-2019 12:49PM

Id love if there was an after life. But ultimately, I dont see any valid reason why you would believe in one, other than desperation or fear. Not putting anyone down who believes, I would love to have that hope, but I cant make myself believe in something I genuinely dont think exists, and which has absolutely no proof what so ever to persuade me otherwise

Montage of Feck · 29-09-2019 01:09PM

smacl wrote: »

The sun shines because it is a nuclear furnace and it rains or not based on prevalent weather conditions. Whether either fall on you depends pretty much on where you're standing regardless of what you happen to believe.

I always thought it was due to lying when I was 17.

weemcd · 29-09-2019 01:14PM

I believe there may or may not be a God, I've been either side of the spectrum in that I was certain they did/didn't exist. Now I'd plant myself generally somewhere in the middle.

I try and not get too hung up on it as nobody actually knows.

Drumpot · 29-09-2019 01:18PM

smacl wrote: »

That's fair enough, but the reverse has been the case throughout the history of this country and even in this thread we see atheists being referred to collectively as ****. Before more religious types get all pissy about atheists slagging off their religion they should maybe ask what's the source of resentment of organised religion and how much of it is justified?

So “they started it” is your reason for resenting religion? Seriously? And we wonder why both sides can’t have reasonable debates on the topic! You’re both as bad as each other :pac:

theological · 29-09-2019 01:27PM

smacl wrote: »

That's fair enough, but the reverse has been the case throughout the history of this country and even in this thread we see atheists being referred to collectively as ****. Before more religious types get all pissy about atheists slagging off their religion they should maybe ask what's the source of resentment of organised religion and how much of it is justified?

I'm quite happy to press on regardless.

To the original question: I believe in God and I'm an evangelical Protestant who believes and trusts in God, and holds to the promises of God revealed in Scripture and most clearly in Jesus Christ.

I believe in Christ and what He has said in His word. I put my hope and trust in Him. I simply offer that to others, if they are not willing to receive. I move on. I've got a lot of work to do to try share my faith with others, and to encourage those who are already Christians in my church to grow to love Him more and others do the same for me. That's the job Jesus has given us if we follow after Him.

I don't dwell too much on what people think about me or my faith. My value doesn't come from what people think about me or my faith. My value comes from the God who created me, and the God who sent His Son into this world in verifiable history to rescue me.

Feel free to "slag off" my religion. I don't care. More importantly, why should I care?

smacl · 29-09-2019 02:18PM

Drumpot wrote: »

So “they started it” is your reason for resenting religion? Seriously? And we wonder why both sides can’t have reasonable debates on the topic! You’re both as bad as each other :pac:

Nope. Not because 'they started it', because of the untold amount of abuse, bullying and other crap that has gone on in the name religion for so long which up until very recently we simply weren't allowed to question. The reason the church gets so much criticism is because they've behave absolutely appallingly for as long as they could get away with it.

railer201 · 29-09-2019 02:31PM

smacl wrote: »

Nope. Not because 'they started it', because of the untold amount of abuse, bullying and other crap that has gone on in the name religion for so long which up until very recently we simply weren't allowed to question. The reason the church gets so much criticism is because they've behave absolutely appallingly for as long as they could get away with it.

Would there be any chance of 'getting even' with the Catholic church elsewhere, rather than dragging threads off topic ?

Drumpot · 29-09-2019 02:45PM

smacl wrote: »

Nope. Not because 'they started it', because of the untold amount of abuse, bullying and other crap that has gone on in the name religion for so long which up until very recently we simply weren't allowed to question. The reason the church gets so much criticism is because they've behave absolutely appallingly for as long as they could get away with it.

But why should that override logical discussions on the topic ? Having a reason to feel negative towards something and explaining that reason is fine, but it has no objective benefit when discussing the topic.

Human beings treat each other like sh*t in all walks of life, religion is no exception. I dont see how you bringing this up helps any progressive discussion, we just end up with partisan tit for tat arguments like the children in the Dail.

smacl · 29-09-2019 02:45PM

railer201 wrote: »

Would there be any chance of 'getting even' with the Catholic church elsewhere, rather than dragging threads off topic ?

Ok, to bring it back on topic then, I reckon that a lot of people don't believe in god these days because the institutions that promote such a belief have time and again proven themselves untrustworthy. They're more vocal about it because they're no longer going to be victimised for voicing such an opinion.

Drumpot · 29-09-2019 02:51PM

smacl wrote: »

Ok, to bring it back on topic then, I reckon that a lot of people don't believe in god these days because the institutions that promote such a belief have time and again proven themselves untrustworthy. They're more vocal about it because they're no longer going to be victimised for voicing such an opinion.

Alot of people who have made this decision have learned nothing. They will just swap their trust in one institution/organisation/belief for another flawed man made ideal. You have to be able to see the pros and cons of religion and look beyond your own prejudice to see this.

We have been victimised and continue to be abused by our banks, our government, our regulators and pretty much any institution with any sort of power. Because people are inherently ignorant, particularly on the role they play in corruption. For example, I think many many people engage in corrupt practices that they convince themselves are technically grand. The culture in their organisation absolves them of personal responsibility. Kind of like the concept of how normal people can engage in war atrocities. Wearing a uniform or having power in a corrupt culture can convince people they are not actually doing anything, they are just following orders or doing what everybody else is doing.

gormdubhgorm · 29-09-2019 02:58PM

20Wheel wrote: »

best advice ive seen on the subject is this; there may or may not be a god, we cant answer that. However, that god will not intervene in your life.

i find this to be true, having seen people in situations way more fcked up than any ill find myself in. god didnt intervene for people in warzones, adrift at sea, or stuck in an upturned car. so he/she/it wont be intervening to get you a promotion/laid/out of minor trouble.

by all means pray, but be sure to tie up your camel, as the old saying goes.

I don't mind people believing in God but the bit that kinda annoys me is when people try to shoehorn God into an event no matter what.
In other-words if a person survives it is thanks to God. If a person dies it is God's will. The reason given if they were only children is that they are one of God's angel's too special for this world. It is like a mental trick of the mind so God has an excuse this time - but is for the greater good.
It is a good safety net/coping mechanism for the mind if you are fortunate enough to have that level of faith.

Miriam O'Callaghan was discussing Lourdes miracles with two people (man and woman) writing a book about it. (actually listened to it because of this thread).

They were obviously very sincere in thier beliefs. But what struck me was thier lack of questioning of the stories. They were so steadfast in thier beliefs that they never even contemplated questioning thier faith.
They only looked for reasons that confirmed thier belief (confirmation bias).
Example they never questioned why Bernadette in 1858 (aged 13/14 at the time) only saw the visions.
It was only said she was 'chosen' because she was an ordinary girl like 2000 years previously.
There was also mention of a 2 year old having a vision this was explained as proof because it was said that 2 year old's were incapable of making up stories about seeing visions!
Another bit that struck me was that one of the authors said "There are always the skeptic's who know everything - this happened because of this and this" etc

But I thought this is exactly what the authors are doing, by finding spiritual reasons to fit thier theory no matter what.

There was also a clear trick of the mind/philosophy one of the author's used.
She talked of not thinking of a miracle in the narrow sense but in the the broader sense. She said just having her son for 20 years before he passed away was a blessing for her. The miracle part for her was the sense of calm and peace she felt when he died. The miracle for her was how God gave her this sense of calm and sense of peace to cope with her son's death.
She claimed the miracle does not have to be obvious - such as a healing to be a miracle.

Greentopia · 29-09-2019 03:04PM

No. Never made any sense to me. Even when I was a child and had to say prayers in mass or go through first holy communion and confirmation I was just going through the rituals because I had to.

We're all born atheists and I stayed that way.

r93kaey5p2izun · 29-09-2019 03:12PM

No I don't. I can understand somewhat how others do though, based on thousands of years of tradition. I can also see that faith is a benefit to a lot of people, but there's just no way I could ever believe in it even if I wanted to. But for me if there was a god, given the state of the world, I think it would be a nasty, uncaring being and that's a worse prospect than nothing. So I'm glad there's no god. I think organised religion can offer nice social supports to people, and it's a shame few other organisations can substitute well for that aspect of it, but I cannot understand at all how anyone subscribes to any of the main organised religions given their appalling behaviour both past and present.

uptherebels · 29-09-2019 03:12PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I wasn’t separating the Church from it’s membership. I’m just not interested in suggesting that every member of the Church is complicit or tacitly approves of the wrongdoing of a minority of it’s members. Your suggesting that members of the Church are responsible for the actions of a minority of it’s members is the same in principle as suggesting that victims of abuse are responsible for the actions of the people who commit abuse against them given that they were, and the vast majority of victims of abuse still are, members of the same Catholic Church. You sure you want to stick to that logic? I’ll tell you now it’s nonsense if you so much as gave it more than 30 seconds thought.

You’re actually serious? Of course they do. That’s precisely how they were able to commit rape and abuse and have their crimes covered up, because they have a combination of power, wealth and influence in society which enables them to weave their way into positions where they have the capacity to commit crimes and have them covered up, while all the time portraying themselves as pillars of their respective communities.

One would imagine the recent scandals in all different walks of life and organisations would have taught you that much, that corruption and malfeasance isn’t an intrinsic part of any ideology or community, but there are always the minority of opportunistic fcuks will manipulate people’s idealism for their own nefarious purposes. It doesn’t follow that all members of that community or all people who subscribe to a particular ideology are degenerate fcukwits.

Where are the protests and rallies for change in the church from its membership? For the hierarchy to go to police agencies first? They can set up these for protection of potential children, but not actual children.
You said men who rape, they as a group do not have organisations protecting them. that a few are in positions of power doesn't represent the group, unlike Catholic priests, but you know that already.
I never claimed any ideology was immune to corruption, but the RCC had a unique position of power and privilege in this country. Any other organisation that committed the crimes of the church would be long gone or changed beyond recognition.

smacl · 29-09-2019 03:16PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Alot of people who have made this decision have learned nothing. They will just swap their trust in one institution/organisation/belief for another flawed man made ideal. You have to be able to see the pros and cons of religion and look beyond your own prejudice to see this.

I disagree. I think Irish society has become kinder and more tolerant for having stepped away from the archaic institutionalised morality doled out by the church. If you look at the results of the last three referendums for example, the people voted against the position of the church because the popular consensus was that the church was morally regressive.

It is worth remembering that the god that most people believe in is the god they're told to believe in. Born in Ireland you're most likely going to be Catholic, Middle East a Muslim, India a Hindu etc... To me this illustrates that religious belief is primarily a cultural artefact. I do think it has value to many people in many contexts, notably as a source of hope to those in abject poverty or the brink of despair, and as something that binds community. I also think it can similarly be damaging both to the individual and society and has been a source of great barbarism throughout history.

We have been victimised and continue to be abused by our banks, our government, our regulators and pretty much any institution with any sort of power. Because people are inherently ignorant, particularly on the role they play in corruption. For example, I think many many people engage in corrupt practices that they convince themselves are technically grand. The culture in their organisation absolves them of personal responsibility. Kind of like the concept of how normal people can engage in war atrocities. Wearing a uniform or having power in a corrupt culture can convince people they are not actually doing anything, they are just following orders or doing what everybody else is doing.

True, but a red herring and off topic.

Graces7 · 29-09-2019 03:17PM

A small reminder. The thread title asks if you believe in God

God is not the church; the church is not God. Jesus is not the church; the church is not Jesus. Religion is not God.

No human agency is God

I believe in God, in Jesus , in the Holy Spirit .

eviltwin · 29-09-2019 03:23PM

Graces7 wrote: »

A small reminder. The thread title asks if you believe in God

God is not the church; the church is not God. Jesus is not the church; the church is not Jesus. Religion is not God.

No human agency is God

I believe in God, in Jesus , in the Holy Spirit .

I think people think their priests etc speak for God so when they pass judgement on those not following the rigid rules of said church the layperson feels its okay to do the same

smacl · 29-09-2019 03:30PM

Graces7 wrote: »

A small reminder. The thread title asks if you believe in God

God is not the church; the church is not God. Jesus is not the church; the church is not Jesus. Religion is not God.

No human agency is God

I believe in God, in Jesus , in the Holy Spirit .

People don't spontaneously believe in god though. If they believe in the god they're told to believe in by their local church. If you'd been born in Yemen I daresay you'd believe in Allah.

BarryD2 · 29-09-2019 03:32PM

Dunno, but best to keep your options open.

gormdubhgorm · 29-09-2019 03:33PM

smacl wrote: »

People don't spontaneously believe in god though. If they believe in the god they're told to believe in by their local church. If you'd been born in Yemen I daresay you'd believe in Allah.

Exactly it is like joining a Bank when you were younger and sticking with it, because it is too much hassle to change.

Do you believe in God?

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