Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

DelmarODonnell · 03-09-2019 03:21PM

biko wrote: »

Carlsberg UK is trying to sell a new beer to sell to the craft beer crowd, and it's working.

And sure, why not. Try something new.
Just don't pretend to do it because "honesty" it's all about the dosh.

That is just very wrong. Carlsberg is losing ground to other lagers and is trying to rejig the formula/advertising to appeal again to lager drinkers.

Very few people who are into Craft Beer are drinking much lager as the craft breweries tend not to make much of the style, it is actually fairly difficult to produce a really clean consistent lager (not Heineken, Carlsberg etc)

Myself, I drink craft beer because 1) I love trying new types of beer 2) For the most part, I think the beer is of a fair higher quality and 3) Me spending my money on craft beer instead of Macros is undoubtedly keeping more money in the local economy. Micro Breweries create far more jobs than the Multinationals like Diageo or Heineken and keep profits in the hands of locals to reinvest in the country.

On cost, there is of course a huge difference in price if you buy from the off licence as the micro breweries don't have capacity to sell at the volume required to reduce the price. However in pubs you will find the price of a craft beer almost the same as a pint of Heineken.

In Bray in my local, a pint of Wicklow Wolf Elevation Pale Ale is €5.80 and a pint of Heineken €5.70. They make the beer 5 minutes away from the pub and the fellas running it are from the town and even grow some of their own ingredients in Roundwood.

Effects · 03-09-2019 08:06PM

biko wrote: »

Carlsberg is almost always a good pint.

Sorry, Carlsberg always tastes like a shít beer.

listermint · 08-09-2019 10:29PM

biko wrote: »

I never had a an iffy pint of Carlsberg so can't judge that.

I can't count on two hands how many bad pints of carlsberg I've had.

You'd want to be off your head to think it's the most consistent pint.

Quality lols.

baconsarnie · 09-09-2019 02:08PM

Going back to the OP, I would say there are a number of contributory factors.

Way back, Ireland (much like the UK) had a range of local breweries, which eventually became a duopoly. Whilst there is massive progress in the number of local craft breweries, it is a relatively recent phenomenon.

I think three massive contributory factors are: the large breweries doing everything that they can do to maintain their market share, the role of publicans and how consumers view alcohol as a product.

As mentioned before, there have been numerous examples of multibillion companies using their marketing resources to launch "craft" ales and at the same time, pressuring pubs to remove taps from smaller breweries. Craft ale won't take off in rural areas if there are no products on tap.

This is linked with publicans. Most pubs (certainly in rural settings) are passed down within a family. Very few have any interest in the product they serve and are happy with keeping things ticking over. Fair enough, some people might say. But I can bet you that a large proportion of pub owners wouldn't have a clue how beer is brewed, or the difference between an ale or a larger. Many will say, why should they? I think if i went into a butchers, I would like to be given the impression that they know more about the product they are selling than me and be able, at a bare minimum, to tell me the difference between pork and beef.

Finally, a really important point was made earlier: many people drink for social purposes or simply to get drunk. I genuinely know lots of people who drank brand X as it is available and that they started drinking it when they were 18 and it was the least vile product available. They can sink 6-10 pints of it in a sitting and it more or less doesn't kill them. The concept that taste or enjoying the product is not even secondary, it isn't even on the radar.

However that does change. You only need to look at how wine consumption changed in Ireland (from Black Tower and La Piat D'Or as being our two choices) and the availability of craft beer in practically every Centra around the country.

It will require consumers to ask consistently for something different and not be shy in vocalising that cans of Carlsberg doesn't constitute choice!!!

Clegg · 09-09-2019 04:06PM

I don't know much about the availability of cask ales, but craft beers are widely available. You still have the traditional boozers that do the usual Guinness, Heineken, Coors etc, but lots of pubs will have a tap or two of a craft IPA. And the newer pubs will have an entire row of them. I agree that Dublin seems to have a greater variety to choose from, but the rest of the country wouldn't be bereft of choice.

It's the same for the off licenses. My local Molloy's has its entire back section dedicated to Irish and international craft beers. Lots of Irish micro brewery representation too.

Twee. · 09-09-2019 04:52PM

In terms of craft beer availability, getting out and selling your brand is a hard job, especially in a small company where there's no budget yet for a sales person or brand ambassador. You're relying on your distributor who probably has some other beer accounts with better margin, can sell more volume, and they're the ones they push. Not all distributors are like this but from my experience you need to do something to really get them selling your product for you. Getting brand owners, founders, brewers out on to the sales trail is hard but it sometimes has to be done, and it should yield sales. People buy from people, as they say. As consumers, it's up to us to ask at the bar and order local where possible. If you know there's a beer being brewed relatively nearby, be cheeky and ask the bartender why haven't they got, it's only up the road sure :pac:

Fighting for tap space is damn hard, getting a space in a fridge for cans might be easier, and then promoting the hell out of the listing with whatever you can (social media, effective POS, tastings, proper staff training & tastings). But this all takes time, money, and some expertise.

Staff training is a big one, many venues from pubs to cocktail bars don't invest the time with staff, and when offered free tastings and training by brands, they're "too busy" to organise it.

dvdman1 · 09-09-2019 05:05PM

Craft is always very expensive in irish bars..its a big turn off..i dont mind paying as i know how tough it is for micros
The macros have all the pubs in there pocket, they pay for signs bar refurbishment and all sorts so there tap is front n centre at the bar, micros just cant compete.
Theres also the fake micro taps in disguise...cutehoor, orchard thieves...all macros pretending.

ShamNNspace · 09-09-2019 07:02PM

Imo it's a pity the cafe bar bill was shot down by the usual shower.. Maybe some of the craft beers foreign and Irish could have been sold there.. Iv lived abroad for a lot of my life an iv always lamented the fact I can't sit in a cafe here of a morning with my paper and maybe people watch witha nice beer instead of having to go to a dark pub(if its even open) of a morning.. Ya know sometimes if people were treated like adults and given some responsibility instead of being nannied all the time then maybe they might take some responsibility.. Anyways I'm gone a bit off the point of the thread

RasTa · 09-09-2019 07:06PM

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

Aglomerado · 10-09-2019 09:03AM

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

I was in a lovely one in Bath last year https://beercraftbath.com/
I went in for a look at the bottles & cans on sale and stayed for a couple of draught ones.

ShamNNspace · 10-09-2019 09:23AM

Aglomerado wrote: »

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

I was in a lovely one in Bath last year https://beercraftbath.com/
I went in for a look at the bottles & cans on sale and stayed for a couple of draught ones.

Near pulteney Bridge?? Stopped there myself last year had a few outside

Aglomerado · 10-09-2019 09:42AM

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Near pulteney Bridge?? Stopped there myself last year had a few outside

That's the one, lovely spot with a friendly lad in charge.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-09-2019 01:33PM

RasTa wrote: »

Sure even the off licenses have taps now and you drink inside over here in the UK

How does that work exactly?

irish_goat · 10-09-2019 01:49PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that work exactly?

You find them a lot in the continent, they're primarily off licences but they'll sometimes have a couple of taps and a few barstools where you can have a drink and a snack as well.

Here's an example of one I was at in Andorra. https://www.aswesawit.com/la-birreria-andorra/

ShamNNspace · 10-09-2019 02:06PM

irish_goat wrote: »

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

How does that work exactly?

You find them a lot in the continent, they're primarily off licences but they'll sometimes have a couple of taps and a few barstools where you can have a drink and a snack as well.

Here's an example of one I was at in Andorra. https://www.aswesawit.com/la-birreria-andorra/

And your generally treated like an adult around alcohol

The Nal · 10-09-2019 02:24PM

ted1 wrote: »

It’s the squeeze Diageo/guiness have on pubs.

Indeed. Irish Distillers too. Same reason we had Yellow Tail or Blossom Hill quarter bottles in 90% of pubs until they sold off their wine business. We still have Jacobs Leak.

Very Irish stuff. Monopolies trying to quash start ups and independents.

Turquoise Hexagon Sun · 10-09-2019 02:42PM

Yeah even some pubs in Dublin still have the old boring selection that was there since I was a kid.

Guinness, Heineken Budweiser, Carlsberg:

It's really unsophisticated. It's like the X-Factor or the top-5 singles in the charts. Mindless pop-****e. Imagine, that was the only choice you had when walking in to a music store:

Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, Rihanna, Westlife.

Craft beer is like discovering there is a Pink Floyd in an ocean of Coldplays.

Any bar that purports to being a good bar but doesn't have any craft beer isn't a bar, imo. Even worse, when you ask if there are any IPA's or hoppy beers and they look at you like you have two heads. You're in the business of selling beer. Get it together.

And don't get me started on Guinness/Diageo trying to do "craft beer." What a crock of ****.

machaseh · 18-09-2019 01:18PM

Is this so? Although I live in Dublin I've been out in the country on various occasions, and I like how the beers do differ per region. In Kilkenny you have well kilkenny (which is my absolute favorite by the way), in Cork you have murphy's (also very good), in Galway you have Galway Hooker. Belfast of course is an entirely different story as it has all the English beers as well as the standard Irish fare.

What I would like to see more of, is pubs serving whatever craft beer is local to the area much more. But yes Irish people seem to be not very adventurous in the food and drink department (when compared to the Netherlands where I come from) so I doubt it'll take off anywhere except for the larger cities, which already do have craft beer pubs, and in the touristy areas in summer. Not in some godforsaken country pub in county Offally no.

BeerNut · 18-09-2019 06:05PM

machaseh wrote: »

In Kilkenny you have well kilkenny...What I would like to see more of, is pubs serving whatever craft beer is local to the area

And there's the problem. Kilkenny city has two operational breweries but is associated worldwide with a Dublin-brewed beer because its name is "Kilkenny". See also C&C's attempts to make Clonmel-brewed 5 Lamps more Dublin than the Dubs themselves.

Technocentral · 19-09-2019 11:08AM

90% of people dont like the taste of beer unless its in its most bland and basic form is the reason, I love roasty, toasty, hoppy and malty flavours in beers, IPAs and Imperial Stouts are my go toos.

eusap · 26-09-2019 09:35AM

Is it not all about Supply and Demand?, visit any belgian bar and you will also find the big four on tap (Duvel, Leffe, Hoegarden,Maes)

Irish Bars will stock craft beer if there is a demand, why wouldn't they the price is higher. Some great bars around Kildare and Kerry for craft beers.

But for me the market of craft beers is not the 10 pints on a saturday in the local, its lots of people who go to the supermarket/off licence and buy 3-4 bottles for the weekend. They sit and enjoy the beer and not swallow it down.

Ash.J.Williams · 26-09-2019 10:13AM

eusap wrote: »

Is it not all about Supply and Demand?, visit any belgian bar and you will also find the big four on tap (Duvel, Leffe, Hoegarden,Maes)

Irish Bars will stock craft beer if there is a demand, why wouldn't they the price is higher. Some great bars around Kildare and Kerry for craft beers.

But for me the market of craft beers is not the 10 pints on a saturday in the local, its lots of people who go to the supermarket/off licence and buy 3-4 bottles for the weekend. They sit and enjoy the beer and not swallow it down.

It's also about margins Diageo and Heineken would say they offer more revenue per keg

Twee. · 26-09-2019 02:35PM

Supply and demand can be influenced a bit more than margins. It's such a time sink (+cost of product used) but brands need to be out doing tastings and talking to potential customers, whether that's in bars, off-licences or at beer/food festivals (this one is particularly expensive). It's one part of a bigger strategy, but in my experience it works. There are some people and venues you'll never get over the line, but there's plenty you can!

NIMAN · 28-09-2019 04:32PM

I think what we grew up with has conditioned our taste buds!

If you drink Guinness, Carlsberg, Heineken for your best drinking years, from maybe 18 - 40, then often craft beers simply don't taste nice. Different yes, but many will simply return to what they are used to.

When SuperValu used to the their "4 craft beers for e10" deals, I'd often buy a few random ones. I'd say over the last few years I've tried 12 different craft beers, and none really made me want to go out and buy in a load for the fridge.

Ruraldweller56 · 28-09-2019 04:34PM

Harp is a fine beer. Seldom enough seen in the bars these days.

28-09-2019 04:36PM

I think it’s a mixture of things. It’s mainly just the big brands being the norm, some of it is the taste of a craft IPA can be quite jarring at first taste (my local has one and they sell nothing to most people after the first try), and some of it is the attitude of the craft beer “crew” (it’s quite an Irish thing in all areas to get in on something early and scoff at everyone who didn’t, thus shutting out newcomers). But that all said, it’s definitely growing and there are very few pubs these days I won’t get something I like.

Mongfinder General · 28-09-2019 04:39PM

I suspect local pubs don’t stock craft beers due to the pretentious hipster type arse holes who drink the stuff. Insufferable ****ers will drive your custom away.

TaurenDruid · 28-09-2019 04:46PM

NIMAN wrote: »

When SuperValu used to the their "4 craft beers for e10" deals, I'd often buy a few random ones. I'd say over the last few years I've tried 12 different craft beers, and none really made me want to go out and buy in a load for the fridge.

12 different beers? In the last few years?

Woah. Wild, man!

It's not a competition - but Untappd tells me I've on 50 different beers since 1st of June. Admittedly I was travelling for 3 weeks (though shamefully in Hong Kong I ended up drinking Tetleys...)

553 different beers since I installed the app (a few years ago). I'd say I've had 12 different beer styles since 1st June... stout, red ale, brown ale, IPAs, a couple of sours/fruit sours, grapefruit radler, weisse, blonde, lager...

If you've not found a craft beer you like, fair enough - but maybe try varying the styles you're trying?

Effects · 28-09-2019 05:31PM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

I suspect local pubs don’t stock craft beers due to the pretentious hipster type arse holes who drink the stuff.

You sound like someone who still wears boot cut jeans and doesn't like people who you think are better than you as they have developed their tastes further than you.

NIMAN · 28-09-2019 05:36PM

TaurenDruid wrote: »

12 different beers? In the last few years?

Woah. Wild, man!

It's not a competition - but Untappd tells me I've on 50 different beers since 1st of June. Admittedly I was travelling for 3 weeks (though shamefully in Hong Kong I ended up drinking Tetleys...)

553 different beers since I installed the app (a few years ago). I'd say I've had 12 different beer styles since 1st June... stout, red ale, brown ale, IPAs, a couple of sours/fruit sours, grapefruit radler, weisse, blonde, lager...

If you've not found a craft beer you like, fair enough - but maybe try varying the styles you're trying?

Yeah, tell me about it. My drinking days are well behind me. I tend not to drink at home, and I have the social life of a brick.

But it was used as an example to show that I tried 12 different tastings ales, beers, lagers, stouts and none of them appealed enough to me to go out and buy them again.

Why has craft beer and cask Ale not taken off in Irish pubs?

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