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M50 - Wife hit by bus

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    #32
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    blueberrypie wrote: »
    Just want to say, I am glad all is ok.
    I presume she did not have a dash cam to record footage of the incident . (Yes I am aware of the GDPR issue).
    Was there any witnesses?
    Don't do anything to the car as I presume they will send someone down to do a visual inspection.

    What GDPR issue?

    GDPR only applies to businesses or entities that process data for their operations. Dash cams are for personal use and are exempt.

    You are also filming in a public place where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy.

    I’d get a dash cam, the incident on the M50 proves their utility. Glad your wife is okay.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    If the bus passed through the toll plaza there’ll be a record of the license plate. Get the license plate and there should be corresponding damage to the bus.

    It would certainly be an approach- how to go about this though, might prove problematic- it will probably take an approach from the Gardai to get this footage- however, there's also tons of road traffic cameras on the M-50- somewhere, this accident is probably on file - it's about knowing who to contact and how- maybe a solicitor might progress but that of course is cost.


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    #34
    mikewebb1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭mikewebb1


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Is it possible to get the M50 crowd to see if they have footage? Surely this is a hit and run type scenario?

    Was just about to post same

    Hit and run here?

    Get footage checked?


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    #35
    mikewebb1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭mikewebb1


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    The driver of the bus may be unaware of the collision.

    Ya they all say that

    Cabin noise lol


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mikewebb1 wrote: »
    Ya they all say that

    Cabin noise lol

    Could be:

    No public Service Vehicle licence or whatever is required.
    No insurance
    NI Registered
    Drunk
    Pr1ck

    Any of the above are more likely than "cabin noise" :D


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    #37
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    If she's going below the speed limit she shouldn't have been in the middle lane....

    You need to learn the rules of the road. If she wasn't overtaking she shouldn't have been in the middle lane.

    That's of course when there IS a middle lane... !
    NinjaTruncs wrote: »
    There are only two lanes of the M50 between those junctions, so she can't have been in the middle lane. What direction was she going ?


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    #38
    mikewebb1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭mikewebb1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Could be:

    No public Service Vehicle licence or whatever is required.
    No insurance
    NI Registered
    Drunk
    Pr1ck

    Any of the above are more likely than "cabin noise" :D

    Or one of these 50℅ of buses that shouldn't be on the road

    Wasn't it only in the news


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    #39
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Strumms wrote: »
    Thing here is a collision between a car and a bus, on the motorway, bus drives on, Gardai are contacted and advises the driver on the receiving end of the hit to make their way to a Garda station ! Even for minor enough contact that’s really shoddy from them.

    I’ve never been one to be critical of Gardai but to advise a person, who has just been in contact with a bus, on the motorway to simply ‘drive on’ , are they composed enough emotionally or NOT suffering from shock ? Where they could pose a danger to themselves and fellow road users ? Was the vehicle road worthy after the contact ? Would the driver had sound enough decision making ability to correctly decide this ?

    Ah seriously get over it. In a non injury collision that is precisely the correct advise, get out of dodge, get off the motorway, don't become an obstacle either blocking or on the shoulder of a 100km/h+ road unless you absolutely have to. If both vehicles are reasonably undamaged and there are no injuries this is just basic common sense.

    Unless there is a need for them Gardaí will not and should not attend RTCs. The damage is a civil matter and their purpose in doing so is the safety of other people - i.e. so that the 100,000 people who managed not to crash that day don't hit the obstruction.

    In the US these signs are very common

    https://twitter.com/NHPSouthernComm/status/971967243343900674/photo/1


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    #40
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,638 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    This is why they teach shoulder checks.

    Personally think everyone should sit a motorcycle lesson as part of the car test.

    It would produce better drivers all round


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    #41
    Rackstar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,347 ✭✭✭Rackstar


    listermint wrote: »
    This is why they teach shoulder checks.

    Personally think everyone should sit a motorcycle lesson as part of the car test.

    It would produce better drivers all round

    Yeah but they were driving a bus......


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    #42
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Ah seriously get over it. In a non injury collision that is precisely the correct advise, get out of dodge, get off the motorway, don't become an obstacle either blocking or on the shoulder of a 100km/h+ road unless you absolutely have to. If both vehicles are reasonably undamaged and there are no injuries this is just basic common sense.

    Unless there is a need for them Gardaí will not and should not attend RTCs. The damage is a civil matter and their purpose in doing so is the safety of other people - i.e. so that the 100,000 people who managed not to crash that day don't hit the obstruction.

    In the US these signs are very common

    https://twitter.com/NHPSouthernComm/status/971967243343900674/photo/1

    You're not in the Kansas now Dorothy.

    In Ireland you are legally obliged to stay at the scene of an accident and give your information to a garda or on request to the injured party or witnesses. You must also report it to AGS.

    "Get out of dodge indeed". That's a feckin hit and run.


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    #43
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    STB. wrote: »
    Your not in the US, Dorothy.

    In Ireland you are legally obliged to stay at the scene of an accident and give your information to a garda or on request to the injured party or witnesses. You must also report it to AGS.

    Get out of dodge indeed. That's a feckin hit and run.

    It is perfectly acceptable - in practice if not to the letter of the law - for both parties to agree to move to a safer place and you know perfectly well that I was using the word dodge to describe a motorway being a dangerous place for pedestrians, and clearly not advocating hit and run.

    At best, crash on M50 should be taken offline ASAP. Quick chat with other driver, up to the nearest exit where traffic slows by half, and sort it out there.

    At worst, into the hard shoulder, out of cars and behind the barrier, wait for recovery or other assistance.

    In the very specific instance of the person who HAD been hit and run - the advice (given by the Gardaí themselves let's remember) was completely correct.


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    #44
    appledrop
    Registered Users Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭appledrop


    I'm sorry your wife was involved in this + hope she is doing ok. Keep an eye on her over next few days as shock can effect you for a while afterwards as I know from experience.

    I think this whole incident is dreadful. Her car was hit by a bus on the motorway at maybe 80/ 90km an hour how is that a minor incident?

    Cant believe guards wouldn't come. I'm on M50 everyday + always minor incidences with cars barely tipping each other + blocking up M50 but they refuse to move till Gardai arrive. In fairness I can see were they are coming from. Unless Gardai come can be very hard to follow up with insurance. What did local Gardai at station say? I would consider following up on why Guards refused to come out.

    I was involved in very scary incident a few years ago on M50 when lorry lost its load in front of my car. Now I was very lucky guy stayed + apart from some damage to car I was ok. Obviously his fault + minute his insurance company were told Gardai there + what happened paid up immediately. The Gardai were amazing even brought me home as I was in no state to drive! I was effected for weeks after though on M50 because I was very lucky not to have been seriously injured.


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    #45
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    sdanseo wrote: »
    It is perfectly acceptable - in practice if not to the letter of the law - for both parties to agree to move to a safer place and you know perfectly well that I was using the word dodge to describe a motorway being a dangerous place for pedestrians, and clearly not advocating hit and run.

    At best, crash on M50 should be taken offline ASAP. Quick chat with other driver, up to the nearest exit where traffic slows by half, and sort it out there.

    At worst, into the hard shoulder, out of cars and behind the barrier, wait for recovery or other assistance.

    In the very specific instance of the person who HAD been hit and run - the advice (given by the Gardaí themselves let's remember) was completely correct.

    Its not acceptable EVER to leave the scene of an accident.

    It's not the letter of the law. The law is quite clear.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/106/enacted/en/html#zza24y1961s106

    The other vehicle which shunted the other car off the motorway, LEFT the scene of an accident (please at the very least read the original post). There are three potential penalties for leaving the scene of an accident - a fine, disqualification from driving and imprisonment or any combination of the three. An offense was committed.

    Too many idiots on the road that don't know the rules of the road.


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    #46
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    STB. wrote: »
    Its not acceptable EVER to leave the scene of an accident.

    It's not the letter of the law. The law is quite clear.


    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/106/enacted/en/html#zza24y1961s106

    The other vehicle which shunted the other car off the motorway, LEFT the scene of an accident (please at the very least read the original post). There are three potential penalties for leaving the scene of an accident - a fine, disqualification from driving and imprisonment or any combination of the three. An offense was committed.

    Too many idiots on the road that don't know the rules of the road.

    Just to be clear I'm neither talking about or defending the bus driver. I'm on a hypothetical situation.

    The RTA was written in 1961 and that particular part has not been amended. There were no Motorways in Ireland in 1961 and probably very few cars that could comfortably reach 100km/h.

    EVen if you chose to rigidly interpret it for no apparent reason other than being deliberately obtuse, then you might read the second subsection:
    (b) the driver or other person in charge of the vehicle shall keep the vehicle at or near the place of the occurrence for a period which is reasonable in all the circumstances of the case and having regard to the provisions of this section;[/n]

    I think any reasonable person would agree pulling to the shoulder or off the motorway, whilst not attempting to flee or evade due process, is both near and perfectly reasonable.

    What you're suggesting is that if I have a fender bender in Lane 3 of the M50, and even if both myself and the other driver agree that being able to draw breath is more important, we should not move the vehicles and inch and preserve the scene until we've taken enough photos as to satisfy ourselves for insurance, exchanged particulars, fulfilled all of the other reasonable obligations and in the unlikely even we are still alive at that point, perhaps done a spot of meditation in Lane 2 for the craic first? I've seen people stopped taking pictures in Lane 2/3 and it's not only horribly dangerous but it causes kilometres of traffic in just a few moments. It's stupid behaviour. Lemmings are more self aware.


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    #47
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    sdanseo wrote: »
    Just to be clear I'm neither talking about or defending the bus driver. I'm on a hypothetical situation.

    Just to be the clear the thread is not a hypothetical situation. It is a real life scenario posted by the husband of someone who was in an accident on the M50.
    sdanseo wrote: »

    The RTA was written in 1961 and that particular part has not been amended. There were no Motorways in Ireland in 1961 and probably very few cars that could comfortably reach 100km/h.

    EVen if you chose to rigidly interpret it for no apparent reason other than being deliberately obtuse, then you might read the second subsection:

    I think any reasonable person would agree pulling to the shoulder or off the motorway, whilst not attempting to flee or evade due process, is both near and perfectly reasonable.

    The Road traffic Act was written in 1961 and IT STILL APPLIES today.

    It does not matter if its a fúcking motorway or a national road. You do not leave the scene of an accident as you can and will be prosecuted if you get caught.

    Now this motorway crap you have in your head. The legislation on speed (totally different to Road Traffic Laws on not leaving the scene of an accident) on roads came in 1963 and was updated in 1969. The national speed limit was 97 km/h.

    And someone did flee the scene of an accident in this thread. They weren't doing it in the interests of public safety having exchanged details.

    It is not reasonable to be asked to move your car off the motorway when an offense has been committed. Believe it or not - Stay at the scene MEANS "You must stop your car and remain at the scene of the accident for a reasonable time". If one person doesn't, AGS are meant to attend.

    That way MIBI don't have to be involved because of an unidentifiable driver which is then paid by everyone because the matter wasn't properly investigated at the time.


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    #48
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    I wouldn't bank on there being CCTV. Really the only CCTV you can rely on is your own dashcam.

    There are cctv cameras along that stretch of the M50 on the illuminated message gantry.
    They should contact M50 facilities on 1800-775050 and ask can they retrieve footage for that time, or guide them to how they might get it.
    Depending on the exact location they may not see the impact, but should pick up an image of the bus within a few minutes of it happening where they might get the reg.


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    #49
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    she will have to sort the car herself or claim on her own insurance.

    MIBI afaik will require a registration number of the offending vehicle that left the scene. they won't pay out for an instance where there is an unidentified vehicle involved (for obvious reasons.)

    Why you're all arguing about what lane she was in beggars belief.


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    #50
    The chan chan man
    Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭The chan chan man


    Aren’t there cameras all over the m50?


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    #51
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    GDPR aside and there is a discussion on it in Legal Discussion with regards to dashcams. I highly recommend getting one. To many people leg it after accidents. Glad she's okay.


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    #52
    CrankyHaus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭CrankyHaus


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    There are cctv cameras along that stretch of the M50 on the illuminated message gantry.
    They should contact M50 facilities on 1800-775050 and ask can they retrieve footage for that time, or guide them to how they might get it.
    Depending on the exact location they may not see the impact, but should pick up an image of the bus within a few minutes of it happening where they might get the reg.

    Do you know if they record, as opposed to just being used for live traffic information? I've been told by Gardai that they don't.

    Do you know if M50 Facilities would give out CCTV footage, particularly so vaguely defined, to anyone who asks? Most organisations say they won't "due to GDPR", which conveniently means they don't have to lift a finger.

    Do you know if any CCTV footage can be recovered before it's overwritten on the system, within 28 or even 14 days?

    Given the combination of technical issues and human and organisational rigidity and stupidity even perfect CCTV footage is as often lost as not. In any case in the circumstances the best party to chase it down is Gardai.


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    #53
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    The Gardai would request the footage should it exist. "GDPR" issues do not arise. They seek it on a regular basis. The data would be backed up and kept for a limited period of time I would imagine.

    Someone driving a bus on the road who clearly cut up another driver resulting in the car being shunted across lanes with damage and then driving off needs to be investigated by them, as they are clearly a danger to other road users.


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    #54
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    Do you know if they record, as opposed to just being used for live traffic information? I've been told by Gardai that they don't.

    Do you know if M50 Facilities would give out CCTV footage, particularly so vaguely defined, to anyone who asks? Most organisations say they won't "due to GDPR", which conveniently means they don't have to lift a finger.

    Do you know if any CCTV footage can be recovered before it's overwritten on the system, within 28 or even 14 days?

    Given the combination of technical issues and human and organisational rigidity and stupidity even perfect CCTV footage is as often lost as not. In any case in the circumstances the best party to chase it down is Gardai.

    You make it sound like they just shouldn't bother.

    There is no harm in contacting both of them and pursuing it.

    I would imagine that the cctv monitoring is recorded, it would be a bit stupid if it wasn't.
    Even if its overwritten after 7 or 14 days, this is a very recent event, so should be easily traced.


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    #55
    Carpentry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Carpentry


    UPS uses brown vans and they are cu*ts of a drivers


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    #56
    bobbyss
    Registered Users Posts: 5,190 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    What would be regarded as driving too slowly on the M50 or any motorway? Is there a law about?


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    #57
    K.Flyer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,565 ✭✭✭K.Flyer


    bobbyss wrote: »
    What would be regarded as driving too slowly on the M50 or any motorway? Is there a law about?

    The bit in the middle of the road sign... positioned before you go onto the M50.

    491634.png


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    #58
    Carpentry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Carpentry


    K.Flyer wrote: »
    The bit in the middle of the road sign... positioned before you go onto the M50.

    491634.png

    That applies to vehicles not being able to drive over 50 km/h, not drivers that are not willing to go full 100 km/h, if they dont want to.


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    #59
    bobbyss
    Registered Users Posts: 5,190 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    K.Flyer wrote:
    The bit in the middle of the road sign... positioned before you go onto the M50.


    OK thanks. That's a sign not a law. Is there a legal minimum that you are allowed to drive under? 70k 80k? Where's it written in law?


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    #60
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    bobbyss wrote: »
    OK thanks. That's a sign not a law. Is there a legal minimum that you are allowed to drive under? 70k 80k? Where's it written in law?

    It's not going to be couched in those terms or how could one legally sit in traffic.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Bus left the scene of accident, police should be very interested.

    Speed limit 120 there? Are the busses not limited to 90?


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