The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

dxhound2005 · 22-09-2019 11:05PM

0lddog wrote: »

Neither in the EU

The whole lark has the smell of lobbying in Brussels :cool:

That wouldn't explain Norway and Switzerland. Nor all the countries outside of Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_television_transition

Capt'n Midnight · 22-09-2019 11:09PM

0lddog wrote: »

To free up sell off some frequencies for 3G ( remember that ? )

FYP

dxhound2005 · 22-09-2019 11:27PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

FYP

Not sell off, but charge users for a licence to use frequency spectrum. There wouldn't but much sense in not providing spectrum for wireless broadband, and broadcasting will still be able to operate even after losing some spectrum.

ComReg has published the eight edition of the Radio Frequency Plan for Ireland 2017.

Radio frequency spectrum (“Spectrum”) is a finite but essential natural resource contributing €4.7 billion to Ireland’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). ComReg is tasked with managing increasingly complex requirements for Spectrum, in order to support key industries and stakeholders.

There has been a massive increase in the consumption of data by mobile users since the advent of the smartphone, exceeding 500% since 2012, which has been facilitated by improvements in 3G and 4G network rollouts. The use of wireless devices, such as smartphones and tablets in facilitating wireless broadband access to the internet is now an important dimension, in meeting the demands of many users. Furthermore, developments such as the Internet of Things (IoT), smart metering and the forthcoming 5G mobile networks are also supported by Spectrum.

paleoperson · 23-09-2019 01:05AM

Srameen wrote: »

Just how many 'old ' people in this country still listen to longwave? I'd wager it's a minuscule number.

Does anyone know what fraction of elderly people actually even know what longwave is? Serious question. I know a few who didn't/wouldn't, at best their concept of it would be "that one you sometimes accidentally put on when trying to get to RTE". I don't think it was even a thing when I was growing up, longwave radios were fairly and longwave radio atlantic 252 was on it originally. It's not like they've been getting it for several decades.

I cannot for the life of me think of why they would do this. Where do you have to be living that you can't get FM OR AM, and is it safe for elderly people to be living there in the first place? They already have FM, AM do they really need longwave as well?

23-09-2019 01:13AM

paleoperson wrote: »

I cannot for the life of me think of why they would do this. Where do you have to be living that you can't get FM OR AM, and is it safe for elderly people to be living there in the first place?

But that's been explained throughout the thread. They do have local radio, but the target audience for the LW spectrum are Irish emigrants in the UK, who might not be able to afford streaming services on their meagre pensions.

I think people are underestimating how important this service is to pensioners, many of whom are possibly living alone or bereaved, to have this daily connection to home.

Meanwhile, the people most emphatic that it should be scrapped may not even have known the service existed, before.now.

Maybe it will be abolished and they will win a point on the Internet, but your licence fee won't drop.

And then everyone will forget about the debate, except the people who genuinely rely on this service as part of their daily lives.

topper75 · 23-09-2019 09:41AM

How many such listeners are there remaining in the UK? It could be interesting to divide that number into the 1.8m figure and see if you could buy them all a free DAB radio. :-)

If they left this land 50 years ago, it would be an outrageously kind favour by Irish taxpayers. You'd wonder why such people are still listening to Irish radio at all. Immigrants have obligations to integrate. Would be hard to blame perfidious Albion if they have made no efforts.

FTA69 · 23-09-2019 10:02AM

Srameen wrote: »

I know full well it's pressure from those in the UK. Hence I said 'in this country'.
They pay neither taxes or Licence Fee towards the cost. So, tough. Tune in elsewhere or use other means to get your fix of the old country..

Lovely way to refer to a generation of Irish people who were economically forced into emigration and sent millions of pounds back home in remittances that they earned doing back breakingly hard work

whisky_galore · 23-09-2019 10:11AM

FTA69 wrote: »

Lovely way to refer to a generation of Irish people who were economically forced into emigration and sent millions of pounds back home in remittances that they earned doing back breakingly hard work

Some people would call them "economic migrants" today.

Baggly · 23-09-2019 10:16AM

Mod

Thread belongs in Radio forum. Moving there now.

Please pay attention to the local charter if/when local mods reopen the thread.

TAFKAlawhec · 23-09-2019 12:56PM

paleoperson wrote: »

Does anyone know what fraction of elderly people actually even know what longwave is? Serious question. I know a few who didn't/wouldn't, at best their concept of it would be "that one you sometimes accidentally put on when trying to get to RTE". I don't think it was even a thing when I was growing up, longwave radios were fairly and longwave radio atlantic 252 was on it originally. It's not like they've been getting it for several decades.

I cannot for the life of me think of why they would do this. Where do you have to be living that you can't get FM OR AM, and is it safe for elderly people to be living there in the first place? They already have FM, AM do they really need longwave as well?

Assuming by "AM" you mean Medium Wave or "MW", RTÉ Radio 1 shut down its last transmissions on that band on 567kHz (Tullamore, high power) and 729kHz (Cork, low-er power) in 2008.

23-09-2019 03:42PM

Threads merged again

Thread title amended to reflect the fact that the thread now comprises a number of previously separate threads

end of the road · 23-09-2019 05:23PM

topper75 wrote: »

How many such listeners are there remaining in the UK? It could be interesting to divide that number into the 1.8m figure and see if you could buy them all a free DAB radio. :-)

If they left this land 50 years ago, it would be an outrageously kind favour by Irish taxpayers. You'd wonder why such people are still listening to Irish radio at all. Immigrants have obligations to integrate. Would be hard to blame perfidious Albion if they have made no efforts.

nobody has an obligation to abandon their culture or the ability to use links to their homeland as part of their integration. integration means abide by the law, pay the relevant taxes. ideally take part in the local community but that is up to the individual.

topper75 · 23-09-2019 05:48PM

end of the road wrote: »

nobody has an obligation to abandon their culture or the ability to use links to their homeland as part of their integration. integration means abide by the law, pay the relevant taxes. ideally take part in the local community but that is up to the individual.

Are we talking immigrants or colonists? What you wrote sounds like some kind of inverted Statutes of Kilkenny. :-)

After 50 years I'd be more British than the British themselves. I mean, what exactly would the point be of trying to do otherwise?

my3cents · 23-09-2019 06:20PM

topper75 wrote: »

Are we talking immigrants or colonists? What you wrote sounds like some kind of inverted Statutes of Kilkenny. :-)

After 50 years I'd be more British than the British themselves. I mean, what exactly would the point be of trying to do otherwise?

I've been in Ireland more than 20 years and still listen to BBC Radio 4 on Long Wave most of the time. When its crap I just tune into RTE on Long Wave (when available).

I don't see why the Irish in the UK shouldn't have the option to listen to RTE on Long Wave.

The problem with Long Wave is that it is expensive on the old electricity bill but thats also the reason the signal has the power to be picked up as far away as it does.

GarIT · 23-09-2019 06:34PM

my3cents wrote: »

I've been in Ireland more than 20 years and still listen to BBC Radio 4 on Long Wave most of the time. When its crap I just tune into RTE on Long Wave (when available).

I don't see why the Irish in the UK shouldn't have the option to listen to RTE on Long Wave.

The problem with Long Wave is that it is expensive on the old electricity bill but thats also the reason the signal has the power to be picked up as far away as it does.

Because it's expensive and they aren't contributing.

end of the road · 23-09-2019 07:05PM

GarIT wrote: »

Because it's expensive and they aren't contributing.

they contributed via making the huge sacrifice of leaving the motherland to go to britain and all that went with it. they survived turbulent times, and sent money home to their families, often forgoing anything they could to do so. they will remember the discrimination and even experienced the discrimination, dished out by a minority of people who do not in any way represent the majority. no blacks, no dogs, no irish was no doubt, a sad and familiar experience for some at some stage.
i am happy and proud that the motherland recognizes their sacrifice and provides them with a link to their homeland, providing comfort to them.

GarIT · 23-09-2019 07:43PM

end of the road wrote: »

they contributed via making the huge sacrifice of leaving the motherland to go to britain and all that went with it. they survived turbulent times, and sent money home to their families, often forgoing anything they could to do so. they will remember the discrimination and even experienced the discrimination, dished out by a minority of people who do not in any way represent the majority. no blacks, no dogs, no irish was no doubt, a sad and familiar experience for some at some stage.
i am happy and proud that the motherland recognizes their sacrifice and provides them with a link to their homeland, providing comfort to them.

That's not contributing. It's worth nothing.

end of the road · 23-09-2019 08:40PM

GarIT wrote: »

That's not contributing. It's worth nothing.

it is contributing, and is worth everything to those families who relied on the contributions those brave, and now elderly, immigrants went through hardship to provide.

GarIT · 23-09-2019 10:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

it is contributing, and is worth everything to those families who relied on the contributions those brave, and now elderly, immigrants went through hardship to provide.

Helping your family isn't the same as paying taxes.

end of the road · 23-09-2019 10:53PM

GarIT wrote: »

Helping your family isn't the same as paying taxes.

taxes would have been paid by the businesses operators and staff of any services those families were able to use due to receiving help from the brave people who emmegrated. so in an indirect way the migrants to britain paid taxes.

GarIT · 23-09-2019 11:45PM

end of the road wrote: »

taxes would have been paid by the businesses operators and staff of any services those families were able to use due to receiving help from the brave people who emmegrated. so in an indirect way the migrants to britain paid taxes.

Their family are welcome to receive the signal on the regular radio bands. They have not paid tax directly or a TV licence to fund the state broadcaster, their opinion shouldn't be listened to. The only consideration should be the cost/benefit to people on the Island of Ireland and Islands within the country of Ireland.

end of the road · 24-09-2019 12:26AM

GarIT wrote: »

Their family are welcome to receive the signal on the regular radio bands. They have not paid tax directly or a TV licence to fund the state broadcaster, their opinion shouldn't be listened to. The only consideration should be the cost/benefit to people on the Island of Ireland and Islands within the country of Ireland.

their opinions have to be listened to as they are irish and not listening to their opinions when they have indirectly contributed to the country would be a showing of contempt for brave people who were forced from their homeland via economic necessity.
the fact they haven't paid tax directly or a tv license is irrelevant as a tv license isn't required for radio listening.

GarIT · 24-09-2019 12:55PM

end of the road wrote: »

their opinions have to be listened to as they are irish and not listening to their opinions when they have indirectly contributed to the country would be a showing of contempt for brave people who were forced from their homeland via economic necessity.
the fact they haven't paid tax directly or a tv license is irrelevant as a tv license isn't required for radio listening.

Calling them brave is nonsense. Economic migrants who have contributed nothing. Don't live here, don't matter. The TV licence funds the radio transmissions, only licence holders should be considered when planning infrastructure. What they have paid directly is the only relevant factor.

I have no problem with people emigrating for a better life but they can't expect services from where they have left and are no longer paying tax.

24-09-2019 01:43PM

GarIT wrote: »

Calling them brave is nonsense. Economic migrants who have contributed nothing. Don't live here, don't matter. The TV licence funds the radio transmissions, only licence holders should be considered when planning infrastructure. What they have paid directly is the only relevant factor.

Half of RTÉ's funding is commercial. And as you know, a licence isn't required for a radio.

I didn't have a licence for years (no TV) and listened to the radio very regularly. Many people, probably in this forum, are in that category of listeners.

end of the road · 24-09-2019 01:59PM

GarIT wrote: »

Calling them brave is nonsense. Economic migrants who have contributed nothing. Don't live here, don't matter. The TV licence funds the radio transmissions, only licence holders should be considered when planning infrastructure. What they have paid directly is the only relevant factor.

I have no problem with people emigrating for a better life but they can't expect services from where they have left and are no longer paying tax.

they have contributed by sending money home to their families, who have spent said money on their costs to live, which in turn will have had tax paid on the income by the businesses and services where the families spent the money.
so they actually did contribute, all be it they gave the money to others to do it.

GarIT · 24-09-2019 08:21PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Half of RTÉ's funding is commercial. And as you know, a licence isn't required for a radio.

I didn't have a licence for years (no TV) and listened to the radio very regularly. Many people, probably in this forum, are in that category of listeners.

end of the road wrote: »

they have contributed by sending money home to their families, who have spent said money on their costs to live, which in turn will have had tax paid on the income by the businesses and services where the families spent the money.
so they actually did contribute, all be it they gave the money to others to do it.

I completely disagree but there is no point going back and forth endlessly so I will leave it at this point.

0lddog · 24-09-2019 09:18PM

end of the road wrote: »

they have contributed by sending money home to their families, who have spent said money on their costs to live, which in turn will have had tax paid on the income by the businesses and services where the families spent the money.
so they actually did contribute, all be it they gave the money to others to do it.

Thats exactly it.

People dont seem to appreciated the poverty in this country in the 40s and 50s and how important foreign remittances were back then.

dxhound2005 · 24-09-2019 09:25PM

0lddog wrote: »

Thats exactly it.

People dont seem to appreciated the poverty in this country in the 40s and 50s and how important foreign remittances were back then.

There was no electricity in a lot of rural places, where most of the emigrants came from. Well into the 1960's. Getting a signal on the wireless was a much more challenging process than tuning in stations now on the modern devices. It needed a long wire external aerial, and the wireless sets used wet and dry batteries. The wet battery had to be taken to the local town to be charged.

Claiming that these emigrants who would have lived most of their adult lives in cities, are unable to cope with any technology except long wave is a bit far fetched. But that is the argument being used by the campaign.

end of the road · 24-09-2019 10:01PM

it's not necessarily about whether one is able to cope with technology or not, but the cost effectiveness and portability of such technology verses the simplicity, portability and low cost to the user of lw.

24-09-2019 10:18PM

GarIT wrote: »

I completely disagree but there is no point going back and forth endlessly so I will leave it at this point.

I don't know whether you're "disagreeing" with the fact that half of RTE's funding comes from private activities or that a licence isn't required in order to legally own a radio but these are objectively true statements.

The Future of Longwave 252kHz (RTE Radio 1)

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