Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

prunudo wrote: »

It's already started to play out, not war but military action.
http://news.sky.com/story/saudi-arabia-drone-attacks-johnson-refuses-to-rule-out-military-action-11817540

He's hardly going to have a Blair moment of is own?


I'd like to think Parliamentarians(if they are recalled) won't be duped into wasting time in the house on this.

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

A war before Brexit deadline day? Against who and what reason would be given for such an act?

Against us for being big bad bullies and not allowing them to leave on their terms, etc, etc

Corbyn waffling in an interview. Well, I guess not waffling - he's always been anti-EU. This is one major reason this Brexit farce has gone on as long as it has - an opposition leader failing to oppose.

https://www.politico.eu/article/corbyn-brexit-uk-better-off-outside-eu-with-right-deal/

FrankPoll. wrote: »

Corbyn not even expressing an opinion

How anyone could vote for Him..

Boris just as bad with the no-deal charade

What is the the point of wasting everybody's time and airtime with the no deal nonsense

No Boris is not 'just as bad' - Boris is infinitely worse.

Labour are not responsible for Brexit. Labour are not responsible for 'no deal'. Labour are not responsible for the illegal suspension of Parliament.

Labour are in opposition. While it can be better to be clear on policy - it is their prerogative not to be. I would argue though that the Labour position is perfectly clear. Vote for us and you get another referendum. They are offering a democratic route to revocation of A50. What else is it that people want? They are not in government.

This attempt to paint a picture where Corbyn is in someway responsible in a manner that exceeds this current line of Tory disaster capitalists is reprehensible and mindless to me.

lawred2 wrote: »

This attempt to paint a picture where Corbyn is in someway responsible in a manner that exceeds this current line of Tory disaster capitalists is reprehensible and mindless to me.

Reprehensible, yes, but it isn't mindless. Clever people with very deep pockets are funding the relentless drumbeat that everything is Corbyn's fault.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Reprehensible, yes, but it isn't mindless. Clever people with very deep pockets are funding the relentless drumbeat that everything is Corbyn's fault.

it's mindless from the drones that parrot it

FrankPoll. wrote: »

My post went from Corbyn not expressing an opinion to being blamed for everything

You said Boris was "Just as bad" as Corbyn. Which is wrong, because Corbyn has been in opposition since before Brexit got started, so he has not been in charge of a single one of the disastrous decisions taken by the UK Government.

Personally, I would have been happier with a robust supporter of the EU as leader of the opposition, and Corbyn clearly isn't a fan. But that does not make any of this his fault.

And since the Tories started imploding, he has made several good moves, and is now offering a route to a 2nd Referendum with a revoke A50 option, exactly what the People's Vote folks have been looking for.

As a Leader of the Opposition in a time of crisis, Corbyn is useless. His political ideology is at variance with most party voters and the large majority of the British public. His position on Brexit is at variance with party members and most MPs. He remains a charisma free zone. He has dithered and prevaricated on Brexit (probably deliberately so) to the point where nobody can say what Labour's position is on Brexit. Even if there were a definitive position, it would change tomorrow. His failure to lead throughout the Brexit fiasco is a disgrace. It is no wonder that his approval rating have been consistently dire despite the dreadful performances of May and Johnson. He is the Tory party's best friend.

Enzokk wrote: »

In another ironic twist of some sort, Thomas Cook has ceased operations taking with it thousands of jobs. They warned that Brexit was playing a role but were told not to blame Brexit for the poor running of the company. Those passengers now affected by the closure will have some degree of cover thanks to the EU and the regulations they have put in place for this exact scenario.

What is baffling to me is that people would still think Brexit is a good idea, even after countless examples of the good the EU has done for people in the UK.

They have been fed lies by the Tory press for decades. It's akin to a religion at this stage.

FrankPoll. wrote: »

I phrased it badly, it's hard to take him seriously when he sits on the fence

All this alleged blame on corbyn is like a reverse conspiracy theory

you'll admit that that's a long way from Boris being almost as bad as him...

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As a Leader of the Opposition in a time of crisis, Corbyn is useless. His political ideology is at variance with most party voters and the large majority of the British public. His position on Brexit is at variance with party members and most MPs. He remains a charisma free zone. He has dithered and prevaricated on Brexit (probably deliberately so) to the point where nobody can say what Labour's position is on Brexit. Even if there were a definitive position, it would change tomorrow. His failure to lead throughout the Brexit fiasco is a disgrace. It is no wonder that his approval rating have been consistently dire despite the dreadful performances of May and Johnson. He is the Tory party's best friend.

I understand that you don't like him, I am not a fan myself, but Brexit is not his fault.

He could have been winning medals for leadership and charisma since the referendum and Brexit would have proceeded in exactly the way, because Corbyn has not been in charge. The only real measure of his leadership since then was the 2017 election, where he ran a good campaign and outperformed the polls robbing May of her majority.

Since Boris lost control, Corbyn has acted sensibly to block No Deal and he has adopted a policy which gives a route to Remain if that is what the electorate want, or a softer Labour Brexit if Leave wins the next referendum which it may well do.

You should perhaps consider that you are influenced in your personal dislike for the man by the relentless media hate campaign against him, a campaign which attacks every Labour leader, but is even more intensely anti-Corbyn because even the weakly left wing media like the Guardian are captured by the Blairites and hate Corbyn too.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I understand that you don't like him, I am not a fan myself, but Brexit is not his fault.

He could have been winning medals for leadership and charisma since the referendum and Brexit would have proceeded in exactly the way, because Corbyn has not been in charge. The only real measure of his leadership since then was the 2017 election, where he ran a good campaign and outperformed the polls robbing May of her majority.

Since Boris lost control, Corbyn has acted sensibly to block No Deal and he has adopted a policy which gives a route to Remain if that is what the electorate want, or a softer Labour Brexit if Leave wins the next referendum which it may well do.

You should perhaps consider that you are influenced in your personal dislike for the man by the relentless media hate campaign against him, a campaign which attacks every Labour leader, but is even more intensely anti-Corbyn because even the weakly left wing media like the Guardian are captured by the Blairites and hate Corbyn too.

I'm considerably more nuanced than you might think I am. You can blame the media but that's an easy way out. Johnson gets a much harder time than Corbyn in The Guardian, The Mirror, The New Statesman and The Independent. Similarly, most interviewers and reporters on Channel 4, BBC and Sky lean towards Remain and consequently tend to challenge Johnson more than Corbyn.

The Tory media have hammered Corbyn. That's down to their obvious bias but he's also given them a lot of ammunition. In leadership, personality matters. Johnson is infinitely more charismatic than Corbyn and that matters greatly. That's not how it should be but it's how it is. As it happens, I think that Corbyn is a man of deep integrity. His problem is his demeanour and personality, his political ideology and his indecisiveness. This isn't Tory propaganda, these are facts.

Spain is looking for reciprocal treatment for the citizens in the UK and British citizens in Spain.

https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1176011727856685056?s=20

So essentially it comes down to how the UK will treat Spanish citizens post Brexit, that will determine how their citizens are treated in Spain. Thank goodness for those immigrants from the UK that they have a compassionate and empathetic Home Office that will ensure they will only get the best of both worlds.

Try as I might, I just can't understand the logic of creeps like Michael Gove.

Gove: Tories will collapse if UK is not out of EU by October 31

Rebels who do not back the PM will bring ruin on the party, warns the minister in charge of no-deal preparations

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gove-tories-will-collapse-if-uk-is-not-out-by-october-31-d2mkbpjj9

What he is saying is the survival of the Tory party is more important than the evisveration of the UK in a No Deal crashout. That's madness. The height of irresponsibility and selfishness. How he can say that without blushing is beyond me, what a cretin.