The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

Powerhouse · 16-09-2019 12:26PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

No I dont get that population doesnt matter. What you are referring to - 'the size of a few rural parishes' is the the entire Northside of Dublin City. Thats a lot of people.

Where incidentally are the vast swathes of GAA Wasteland in Dublin.

I never said population doesn't matter. I just addressed the point that Dublin was picking across several counties since these counties are arbitrary changing local government areas, and other counties also have more than one area of local government administration. Never mentioned population.

I pointed out the area I pointed out simply to say that rather than relying on three counties much of Dublin's pick is from a fairly compact area. Never mentioned population for two reasons, 1) it's already clearly established that Dublin has a relatively big and dense population so what's the value of me pointing that put again?, and 2) Dublin also has large numbers of others sports which draw from the same population.

Wastelands? Try Dublin 1, Dublin 24? Even in Dublin 15 where it'd be considered healthy you have what three players(?) in the Dublin squad from a population of 100,000 plus? Even within such active places there are small wastelands. Population matters but not to the extent people claim (Dublin had the same population advantage when they weren't winning) and is quite a complex matter. Dublin's population is so diverse compared with other counties.

blanch152 · 16-09-2019 12:27PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Because if you're going to make an argument to challenge the success of Dublin at AI level, you need to look first at Leinster where they have dominated since 2005, 14 years with one blip. That could be the future.

Depends on whether you are bitter at Dublin's success or genuinely interested in creating a competitive All-Ireland championship.

If the former, you are only interested in Leinster, if the latter, then the really interesting question is why in over 100 years no county other than Cork or Kerry can win more than one Munster title? Find out how to fix that, and you have the blueprint to make the whole competition competitive.

BloodyBill · 16-09-2019 12:29PM

In Limerick it's a whole different kettle of Fish. I'd say the All Ireland football final was on TV in a fair amount of pubs but it would have as much support as Rugby league ..in west Limerick it's different ,football is strong. It's very hard in a place saturated with sporting outlets to force another one in. Now in saying that there was hardly any GAA in Dublin up until the 70s and through money and inward migration the GAA has expanded but it's still the poor relation in many areas of the capital. I would try and help counties raise their profile and funding outlets rather than take from the Dubliners who are a great social outlet and are undoubtedly keeping numbers of young men out of Mountjoy

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 12:41PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

I never said population doesn't matter. I just addressed the point that Dublin was picking across several counties since these counties are arbitrary changing local government areas, and other counties also have more than one area of local government administration. Never mentioned population.

I pointed out the area I pointed out simply to say that rather than relying on three counties much of Dublin's pick is from a fairly compact area. Never mentioned population for two reasons, 1) it's already clearly established that Dublin has a relatively big and dense population so what's the value of me pointing that put again?, and 2) Dublin also has large numbers of others sports which draw from the same population.

Wastelands? Try Dublin 1, Dublin 24? Even in Dublin 15 where it'd be considered healthy you have what three players(?) in the Dublin squad from a population of 100,000 plus? Even within such active places there are small wastelands. Population matters but not to the extent people claim (Dublin had the same population advantage when they weren't winning) and is quite a complex matter. Dublin's population is so diverse compared with other counties.

OK - lets park the issue around cherry picking players from other counties.

I would feel that an advantage Dublin has is that GAA is strong all over the city, and in Fingal & DLR.

There are very few weak points. Very few places you can go to where GAA is not the leading sport.

We've both mentioned Dublin 1 as an obvious one.

Dublin 15 has a number of very strong clubs. Dublin 24 has Thomas Davis and St Marks. Yes, its a big soccer area but certainly decent gaa clubs there also. Hardly a wasteland or untapped territory. In all these areas, the local GAA clubs are comfortably the biggest sports clubs around.

Whereas I'd look out to Meath and the likes of Trim which is a big soccer and hurling town, but less so football.

Slattsy · 16-09-2019 12:47PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OK - lets park the issue around cherry picking players from other counties.

I would feel that an advantage Dublin has is that GAA is strong all over the city, and in Fingal & DLR.

There are very few weak points. Very few places you can go to where GAA is not the leading sport.

We've both mentioned Dublin 1 as an obvious one.

Dublin 15 has a number of very strong clubs. Dublin 24 has Thomas Davis and St Marks. Yes, its a big soccer area but certainly decent gaa clubs there also. Hardly a wasteland or untapped territory. In all these areas, the local GAA clubs are comfortably the biggest sports clubs around.

Whereas I'd look out to Meath and the likes of Trim which is a big soccer and hurling town, but less so football.

This is so far off the mark its laughable.

Fan of Netflix · 16-09-2019 12:49PM

Wicklow for me is an interesting one. Big population. Total underperformance in Football and Hurling. Bray Wanderers? They don't really back them much either.

Unless it's a rugby place, I don't understand the story down there.

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 12:52PM

Slattsy wrote: »

This is so far off the mark its laughable.

Plunkets, Brigids, Castleknock....

yeah laughable.

:rolleyes:

blanch152 · 16-09-2019 12:54PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Plunkets, Brigids, Castleknock....

yeah laughable.

:rolleyes:

Castleknock???? They only opened their first clubhouse a couple of weeks ago, hardly a huge club. And it was only a small one, with no bar licence.

Slattsy · 16-09-2019 12:56PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Plunkets, Brigids, Castleknock....

yeah laughable.

:rolleyes:

And how many soccer clubs are there in Dublin 15?

I'll wait.

Laughable indeed :rolleyes:

Powerhouse · 16-09-2019 01:00PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OK - lets park the issue around cherry picking players from other counties.

I would feel that an advantage Dublin has is that GAA is strong all over the city, and in Fingal & DLR.

There are very few weak points. Very few places you can go to where GAA is not the leading sport.

We've both mentioned Dublin 1 as an obvious one.

Dublin 15 has a number of very strong clubs. Dublin 24 has Thomas Davis and St Marks. Yes, its a big soccer area but certainly decent gaa clubs there also. Hardly a wasteland or untapped territory. In all these areas, the local GAA clubs are comfortably the biggest sports clubs around.

Whereas I'd look out to Meath and the likes of Trim which is a big soccer and hurling town, but less so football.

But it's funny how people mention population when it comes to Dublin but then don't consider the amount of population these clubs technically cater for. You have a few clubs across a hundred thousand people. In most counties there's be 40/50/60 clubs doing this. There's huge chunks of population untouched by GAA clubs which is the major weakness of the population argument.

TrueGael · 16-09-2019 01:31PM

Where the GAAs sheer favoritism towards the is exposed is the sheer lack of investment in the other major urban areas - Limerick, Cork, Galway and most notably Belfast

The sheer devotion to the golden child has been at the expense of these kids and kids all across the land to the point where Soccer and Rugby are taking advantage of the GAA turning its own traditional heartlands into Chernobyl wastelands and are gaining traction where they had little or no presence

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 01:31PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Castleknock???? They only opened their first clubhouse a couple of weeks ago, hardly a huge club. And it was only a small one, with no bar licence.

Its membership and participants that counts.

https://twitter.com/CastleknockGAA?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

show me another 'small' club with 5000 followers on twitter.

Judging by the underage set up, its a huge club.

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 01:37PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

But it's funny how people mention population when it comes to Dublin but then don't consider the amount of population these clubs technically cater for. You have a few clubs across a hundred thousand people. In most counties there's be 40/50/60 clubs doing this. There's huge chunks of population untouched by GAA clubs which is the major weakness of the population argument.

Dont agree.

Its the same in Naas or Navan or Carlow as it is in Blanch or Portmarnock - one or maybe two really big local clubs

You have a plethora of small clubs where there is a plethora of small population centres.

aodomhnaill · 16-09-2019 01:42PM

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Wicklow for me is an interesting one. Big population. Total underperformance in Football and Hurling. Bray Wanderers? They don't really back them much either.

Unless it's a rugby place, I don't understand the story down there.

Very large protestant/COI/Presbyterian population in Wicklow compared to other counties in the Republic. Not that many GAA clubs in comparison to other counties. Louth has more clubs than Wicklow.

Dyr · 16-09-2019 01:46PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

OK - lets park the issue around cherry picking players from other counties.

I would feel that an advantage Dublin has is that GAA is strong all over the city, and in Fingal & DLR.

There are very few weak points. Very few places you can go to where GAA is not the leading sport.

We've both mentioned Dublin 1 as an obvious one.

Dublin 15 has a number of very strong clubs. Dublin 24 has Thomas Davis and St Marks. Yes, its a big soccer area but certainly decent gaa clubs there also. Hardly a wasteland or untapped territory. In all these areas, the local GAA clubs are comfortably the biggest sports clubs around.

Whereas I'd look out to Meath and the likes of Trim which is a big soccer and hurling town, but less so football.

You look at areas where the GAA is strong in Dublin they often tend to be places that had decent populations back in the day but are now declining. A lot of the newer parts of Dublin with booming populations have no inroads made by the GAA. Add to that Primary school teachers are no longer the resource the once were for coaching and running school teams and you start to see a problems develop

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 01:48PM

Bambi wrote: »

You look at areas where the GAA is strong in Dublin they often tend to be places that had decent populations back in the day but are now declining. A lot of the newer parts of Dublin with booming populations have no inroads made by the GAA. Add to that Primary school teachers are no longer the resource the once were for coaching and running school teams and you start to see a problems develop

Where are these places?

I go all over Dublin with underage teams and I genuinely cant really pick out any part that doesnt have a strong GAA club at underage, apart from inner city.

Happyilylost · 16-09-2019 01:57PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Castleknock???? They only opened their first clubhouse a couple of weeks ago, hardly a huge club. And it was only a small one, with no bar licence.

Not only do ye have clubhouses but clubhouses with a bar!!! Very fancy altogether. A GAA trip some rural parts of Ireland would serve you well. They have a pitch. Hopefully with dressing rooms. No clubhouse. And certainly no bar!

On a serious note do clubs around the country have clubhouses that have bars? I thought they would be few and far between.

Fan of Netflix · 16-09-2019 01:59PM

aodomhnaill wrote: »

Very large protestant/COI/Presbyterian population in Wicklow compared to other counties in the Republic. Not that many GAA clubs in comparison to other counties. Louth has more clubs than Wicklow.

Just looked at CSO figures. There are more Protestants in Cavan percentage wise versus Wicklow. There are 200 more Presbyterians in Cavan than Wicklow.

Many protestants I know in Cavan play for local clubs or are involved. So the excuse that Wicklow is full of Prods holds no water. I won't even get into the Northerner Prod population.

Fan of Netflix · 16-09-2019 02:03PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

Not only do ye have clubhouses but clubhouses with a bar!!! Very fancy altogether. A GAA trip some rural parts of Ireland would serve you well. They have a pitch. Hopefully with dressing rooms. No clubhouse. And certainly no bar!

On a serious note do clubs around the country have clubhouses that have bars? I thought they would be few and far between.

There aren't many in Cavan. I don't see the point, why not just drink in local pubs. I don't think I was ever in one

Edgware · 16-09-2019 02:07PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Where are these places?

I go all over Dublin with underage teams and I genuinely cant really pick out any part that doesnt have a strong GAA club at underage, apart from inner city.

True. And there is certainly a big increase in young males getting back into primary school teaching so you will see many male teachers running the Cumann na mBunscoil teams

Gael85 · 16-09-2019 02:20PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Where are these places?

I go all over Dublin with underage teams and I genuinely cant really pick out any part that doesnt have a strong GAA club at underage, apart from inner city.

Tallaght West, Ballyfermot, Walkinstown, Drimnagh, Crumlin, Kingswood and Kilnamanagh wouldn't be strong at underage.

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 02:27PM

Gael85 wrote: »

Tallaght West, Ballyfermot, Walkinstown, Drimnagh, Crumlin, Kingswood and Kilnamanagh wouldn't be strong at underage.

Yup, that's fair - and its one big pocket really with the M50 running through middle of it.

I'd say if you looked at the population of Irish born professional soccer players in the UK, a fair chunk of them would be from the above.

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 02:31PM

Slattsy wrote: »

And how many soccer clubs are there in Dublin 15?

I'll wait.

Laughable indeed :rolleyes:

Funny enough, some of the strongest underage soccer clubs in Dublin are in the GAA heartland discussed earlier - SKB, Home Farm, Drumcondra, Raheny.

Powerhouse · 16-09-2019 02:36PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Dont agree.

Its the same in Naas or Navan or Carlow as it is in Blanch or Portmarnock - one or maybe two really big local clubs

You have a plethora of small clubs where there is a plethora of small population centres.

You cannot compare a city to country towns and counties. Killarney has a population of around 15,000 and has three or four GAA clubs. Dublin 15 has 100,000 people plus and of course a very different demographic to Killarney but of course when population is being talk about we don't hear that. I think Carlow has a few clubs as well. There's just no comparison at all.

Bridge93 · 16-09-2019 02:40PM

There's a pretty large empty space along the coastline of the southside from Clanna Gael in Ringsend to Cuala in Dalkey. The odd club scattered but Kilmacud Crokes in Stillorgan is the only go to for a huge section of the population and can be a bit if a trek for some.

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 02:45PM

Bridge93 wrote: »

There's a pretty large empty space along the coastline of the southside from Clanna Gael in Ringsend to Cuala in Dalkey. The odd club scattered but Kilmacud Crokes in Stillorgan is the only go to for a huge section of the population and can be a bit if a trek for some.

Yes that's possibly fair - Kilmacud and Cuala both have a very large catchment, and are huge clubs. Foxrock Cabinteely also. Ranelagh Gaels is getting much bigger.

Against that, Mount Merrion does very well in the soccer, and there are a number of rugby and cricket clubs as well as tennis, squash, athletics, hockey and so on.

Look - that's a healthy diversity of sports that probably reflects the demographic, but I wouldn't call it a 'gaa wasteland' that is totally untapped. That's way wide of the mark.

There are plenty of kids in Sandymount and Ranelagh that play GAA.

blanch152 · 16-09-2019 02:54PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

Not only do ye have clubhouses but clubhouses with a bar!!! Very fancy altogether. A GAA trip some rural parts of Ireland would serve you well. They have a pitch. Hopefully with dressing rooms. No clubhouse. And certainly no bar!

On a serious note do clubs around the country have clubhouses that have bars? I thought they would be few and far between.

I just pointed out that Castleknock do not have a bar. I have been in an awful lot of clubhouses around the country with far better facilities than Castleknock. A quick google would give you a few clubs with bars.

https://www.dunboynegaa.ie/club-facilities/

http://www.midletongaa.com/bar-and-functions

https://www.douglasgaa.com/bar

http://www.naasgaa.ie/contentPage/32053/bar_facilities

Apart from those from a google, I have been in club bars in Limerick, Mayo and Kerry.

Hammer Archer · 16-09-2019 02:54PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

I cant think of too many players that Meath or Kildare have 'lost' to Dublin.

I'd possibly say where they do lose out is that a lot of people living in Kildare and Meath have long commutes. I am guessing that clubs suffer because of this as people have less time to give to mentoring and coaching, might be wrong completely. Would be interested to hear on this from people based in Dunboyne or the likes.

I have a friend living there who said her son was they only boy in his class in the local gaa club.

I was actually shocked, as in my kids class (within 5k radius of Whitehall Church!!) every single boy bar one is in the local gaa club. And the 'bar one' is in a rival club.

And because I suppose I'd always have perceived Meath as a football county.

The whole Mick Deegan thing has been done to death (he lived in Dublin before moving to Ashbourne but stayed playing with Dublin). The Eadestown goalkeeper (Niall Quinn's son) played with Dublin U21s. Glenn O'Reilly and Shane Clayton (both former Dublin minors and U21s) were living in Ratoath (and both used to play with Ratoath underage teams). There may be others but they're ones I can think of offhand.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Dean Rock is from Garristown.

Ironically - if you went back 30 years ago there was never an Ashbourne player on any of the Sean Boylan teams that won an all Ireland.

Even though Ashbourne was a good big town then, as big as Trim or Athboy.

Never one, not even on the subs bench. And thats across maybe 60 or 70 players that would have made the teams for those various finals.

Never a Ratoath player either.

Now Ashbourne and Ratoath both have absolutely fantastic GAA clubs, and both regularly contribute players to the senior county team.

So I really dont see how this argument stacks up in any way - that somehow Meath is disadvantaged because Ashbourne players are Dubs at heart.....

I'm a Ratoath man so you could definitely say we benefited from the increase in population. However, we had to work very hard for it as a club. The population grew from around 500 in the 1990s to nearly 10000 in the last census (and is due to grow even more over the next 10 years going by plans). We didn't own our own ground and our pitch was on community ground that was shared with the local soccer club. When the population exploded in the late 90s, the club basically had no choice but to buy and develop their own grounds to cope with the new population. With these new grounds (pre-recession) came a huge mortgage and huge repayments that the club has struggled with at times. And that's not even mentioning the huge amount of volunteer work that has gone into underage training to help get Ratoath from a middling Junior football club to a senior football and hurling team regularly making the knockout stages in Meath.

Regarding Ratoath's players on the Meath team this year, Bryan McMahon's family are from Clare, Conor McGill's is from Sligo. Daragh Kelly for the Meath hurlers used to play with the Dublin U21 hurlers but apart from him, I can't think of any Meath player who would be considered a Dublin fan making a mark with a Meath county team.

Happyilylost · 16-09-2019 02:56PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I just pointed out that Castleknock do not have a bar. I have been in an awful lot of clubhouses around the country with far better facilities than Castleknock. A quick google would give you a few clubs with bars.

https://www.dunboynegaa.ie/club-facilities/

http://www.midletongaa.com/bar-and-functions

https://www.douglasgaa.com/bar

http://www.naasgaa.ie/contentPage/32053/bar_facilities

Apart from those from a google, I have been in club bars in Limerick, Mayo and Kerry.

Do the majority of clubs in Dublin have bars?

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 03:07PM

Happyilylost wrote: »

Do the majority of clubs in Dublin have bars?

Some of them don't even have a pitch.

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1