Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 07:26PM

She's just used the word "frit" which should automatically ban her from ever appearing on a political talk show again. Its just a tory pejorative against labour that has no place in serious political discussion, and in parliament too for that matter.

Harry Palmr · 09-09-2019 07:31PM

Grieve amendment carried

J Mysterio · 09-09-2019 07:34PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Grieve amendment carried

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171129272511188993

Infini · 09-09-2019 07:34PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

His last great act, though, will be to ensure the next speaker is elected by THIS parliament and not the NEXT one, whenever that is, so i'm not too suprised those tories were fairly peeved with him right to the end.

Basically a case of "Up yours" to the Troll Party for thinking they could break convention by running against the speaker in an election. Fair play to him as well he found a way to keep control of procedings out of an increasingly broken and utterly incompetent and pathetic NewKIPTory party.

J Mysterio wrote: »

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1171129272511188993

Well, well, well I wonder what kind of embarassing, underhanded and regressive secrets well find out when this all comes out it's another landmine for these tools that might expose even more of their hypocracy and stupidity.

gooch2k9 · 09-09-2019 07:34PM

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 07:38PM

Enzokk wrote: »

You have Cummings who is in contempt of parliament and you have the heads of Vote Leave at the heart of government, is it any wonder they would act dishonestly? Listening to Gove it makes my head spin that he was on of the best the Tories had to put forward as leader. Liars and charlatans who have no respect for the law or the people they are supposed to serve.

Fairly soon now, you'll see what is left of the Tory party morphing into the Nationalist Party of England. With the EDL as their henchmen.

J Mysterio · 09-09-2019 07:39PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

Precisely. But - I suppose - if something were to later be revealed which had been suppressed now, that would be damaging. So they have to make that calculation. Nonetheless, I expect they will/ would try to suppress anything and everything.

It's actually quite a strange moment - the thing implicitly indicates a lack of trust in the honor of 'right honourable members' and their advisors, from other members of parliament. I suppose that shouldnt be a surprise but really, this is the most farcical, untrustworthy cabinet ever assembled.

And in relation to that point:

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1171048539255922688
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1171130775951106050

MikeSoys · 09-09-2019 07:42PM

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 07:42PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

True enough, but dont forget this will be a direction from Her Maj to the named individuals to release their correspondence in relation to Operation Yellowhammer. My feelings would be they would want to think very carefully before any decision to play fast and loose with the directive.

devnull · 09-09-2019 07:43PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

How is anyone to know if what the government releases on the basis of this humble address is everything there is? We know they aren't trustworthy.

What's the odds on people now using burner phones after this and suddenly having a lot more storage space on their device than they had a few days ago and having less emails in their account than they had previously?

Perhaps they could take advice from people who worked for Anglo Irish Bank?

A Shropshire Lad · 09-09-2019 07:45PM

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 07:46PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

People will be given a choice. Lie or tell the truth. Lying, if it is discovered, won't bode well for one's future given that it is the sovereign national parliament that is asking the questions.

J Mysterio · 09-09-2019 07:49PM

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

J Mysterio · 09-09-2019 07:51PM

devnull wrote: »

What's the odds on people now using burner phones after this and suddenly having a lot more storage space on their device than they had a few days ago and having less emails in their account than they had previously?

Perhaps they could take advice from people who worked for Anglo Irish Bank?

Also reminds one of the Hillary scandal whereby she was destroyed for using a private email server for government business. I'd be surprised if similar wasn't prevalent in Westminster also to be honest.

Harry Palmr · 09-09-2019 07:51PM

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

20silkcut · 09-09-2019 07:53PM

What’s app messages can only be deleted by the sender and the evidence of the deletion is left in the context of the chat.
If conversations are released with a lot of deleted messages well then it will be obvious they are hiding something.

Remember the Belfast rape case last year used fairly damning what’s app group chats in evidence.

MikeSoys · 09-09-2019 07:53PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

MikeSoys wrote: »

so they must provide comms on yellow hammer etc... but even the commons and news indicate this included whatapp msgs ..i thought whatsapp is encrypted? am i missing something?

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

yes i guess they would need to unlock their phone and show them the msg trail.. as opposed to directly reading msgs remotely.. possibly edging toward GDPR issues :-)

Itssoeasy · 09-09-2019 07:55PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

So we could have a question to one of the people involved as to why they deleted messages at 19:54pm today given what had happened moments before ? Interesting.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 07:55PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Yes, they have asked for these to be provided. Encrypted and unencrypted both.

Im sure the government would claim the national interest in ignoring this for the most part, so for me the thing is a matter of principle for it to pass the house, more than anything.

Apparently, this can't be legally enforced according to Cox. So it's basically symbolic unless it's pursued by another motion whenever parliament gets to sit again.

MikeSoys · 09-09-2019 07:58PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

I imagine all relevent messages were deleted today

I think that sort of thing can be detected in most apps.

So we could have a question to one of the people involved as to why they deleted messages at 19:54pm today given what had happened moments before ? Interesting.

prob a seperate issue out the law itself.. this sort of thing will lead people not having anything in writing again... can the eu just kick them out of eu and protect us from their mess...

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 07:58PM

The embarrassment for the government is the thing really, not surprised Johnson isnt showing his face tonight. Four major votes since becoming PM, four whopping defeats. He's surely in the record books already, and he aint finished yet by a long shot. His only "achievement" has been proroguing parliament for which he may yet pay a heavy price.

MikeSoys · 09-09-2019 08:02PM

they need a general election to know the wishes of the people.. vote boris might mean no deal if no orderly exit.. boris or corbyn.. difficult choices

serfboard · 09-09-2019 08:03PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

As pointed out, the Tory front bench are absolutely loathsome. They can't even give a little clap for a man for 22 years of service to their national parliament (10 years as Speaker). Whether you like him or not, for gods sake have some decency.

There is a famous speech in the career of Senator Joe McCarthy, given by Joseph Nye Welch in the Army-McCarthy hearings that precipitated the end of McCarthy's career and which applies here. Addressing McCarthy, Welch said:

Joseph Nye Welch wrote:

Until this moment ... I think I never really gauged your cruelty or your recklessness ... Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?

A Shropshire Lad · 09-09-2019 08:07PM

Tories saying that everyone should obey the law..... but they will interpret the law in any way they see fit

J Mysterio · 09-09-2019 08:08PM

RE the disclosure of documents... Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament. The repercussions of which have been... Nothing?

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 08:16PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

RE the disclosure of documents... Cummings has already been found in contempt of Parliament. The repercussions of which have been... Nothing?

Not sure what sanctions would or could be in place for contempt of parliament but am pretty sure the denial of access to westminster should be an absolute minimum. Should have been escorted off the premises that time he was baiting Corbyn in the main lobby imo.

A Shropshire Lad · 09-09-2019 08:16PM

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 08:22PM

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:26PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 08:29PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

Excellent!

And Churchill made more than a token effort to sell them out in 1940 so that should ring a few alarm bells for Arlene & Co. Was only last week i was listening to Bridgen bang on about no deal and GATT24 and all the old brexity shibboleths. Quite a shift in that space of time if true.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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