Would you buy beside social housing?

06-09-2019 09:34AM

If it was owned by a housing associating no problem, if it was owned by the local council I might hesitate a bit.

About 20 years ago being a lone parent I purchased a house, on one side of me were a couple in a two-bed house he drove a van of some kind not sure what she did, at first he was very particular with me then I realised he thought I was renting and was afraid renting to loan parents in the estate = The value of his property would go down and buying his house might not = getting a ticket to some middlle class paradise. It's a kind of sad way to view life.

JohnnyFlash · 06-09-2019 09:39AM

Nah. I wouldn’t buy just because of that, but it certainly wouldn’t help. Using Dublin as an example, I wouldn’t buy in any part of West Dublin, or in places like Clongriffin, Balbriggan either. Chances of living beside a dole bunny or skobie would be far too high.

corner of hells · 06-09-2019 09:42AM

mariaalice wrote: »

If it was owned by a housing associating no problem, if it was owned by the local council I might hesitate a bit.

About 20 years ago being a lone parent I purchased a house, on one side of me were a couple in a two-bed house he drove a van of some kind not sure what she did, at first he was very particular with me then I realised he thought i was renting and was afraid renting to loan parents in the estate = The value of his property would go down and buying his house might not = getting a ticket to some middlle class paradise. It's a kind of a sad way to view life.

A significant amount of social housing is being ran by housing associations, being strictly managed with estate management checks nowadays.

Infernal Racket · 06-09-2019 09:43AM

listermint wrote: »

SJW , check

Virtue signalling, check.

Your really winning this internet prize today. Keep going.

I think you've been triggered listermint

jack842 · 06-09-2019 09:58AM

banie01 wrote: »

Buying in a new build estate has never appealed to me.
The sense of community that comes as part and parcel of older and more settled estates is lost, and given the attitudes displayed by many people...
It is unfortunately not likely to ever be built when people are wondering whether their neighbours are social tenants and feeling a little resentful that they are getting a cheap home whilst "we" worked hard for ours.

I grew up on a council estate, and after returning home from a few years abroad in the early 00's my partner and I lived in a council property for a few years, indeed our son's 1st him was a council bungalow before we bought our house.

The old model of giant local authority estates is ghettoisation.
Social mobility is best fostered by raising standards and integration.
Not by isolation and labelling.

I don't think that is quite true, i bought a new build house a few years ago and there is a great community spirit. I know most of the people in the estate through various private facebook and whatsapp groups. Because people buying were mostly all the same age with young families we have 5 a side teams set up, book clubs, exercise groups, security groups, the lads all meetup for pints in the local every few months. I would doubt in a older more settled estate you would get that. You would be lucky to know your neighbours more than 2 houses to the sides of you.

As with all new estates 10% was built social and affordable housing. You could actually see the social housing locations in the estate on the planning documents on the council website before you buy if you really felt the need to check.

Gregor Samsa · 06-09-2019 09:59AM

Both my parents were born in council houses. I have one friend lives in social housing. He works as a chef. You couldn't meet a nicer guy.

The private houses either side of me both had rent paying tenants in them previously. Had trouble from both of them at various times. No trouble most of the time.

Bottom line is you can never pick your neighbours.

ted1 · 06-09-2019 10:01AM

Elessar wrote: »

Well, would you?

Say you're in the market for a house and you've worked hard and saved for years to finally put down a deposit on a nice new 3 bed in a lovely new estate for you and your family, only to find out that the houses either side of you have been bought by the council for social housing use. What would you do?

Be honest.

Me, I would be looking elsewhere. I had this conversation with some friends recently and they were all in agreement, the risk of bad tenants is just too great. What do boardsies think?

No.

Salthillprom · 06-09-2019 10:07AM

The majority of social housing homes unemployed people. Not all, the majority. I read a recent Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government report that contained the statistics. No, I don't have a link but I'm sure a quick Google will produce it.

So yes, I have a massive problem with houses being provided for and built for absolute lazy oafs. People should not get dole for free and then use this free money to pay nominal 'rent' for free properties. There should be a programme whereby people who claim my tax money as their dole should be out cleaning up the environment or helping the environment or contributing back to society in some way.

I have a huge issue with the fact that some people do an honest day's work and pay back large sums monthly on their mortgages and two doors down, there's a family with 9 kids getting free housing and wrecking the place.

I also have a problem with one parent or two parent families with lesser numbers of kids by the way who get free housing. Get off your a$$es and get jobs like the rest of us. If your job isn't paying you enough to live where you can afford then upskill or move elsewhere. But to expect and take social housing is in my opinion just bone laziness. I'm not referring to people who through illness or caring cannot work and therefore don't earn enough.

I'm also sick of paying taxes to fund families who produce huge numbers of children and are an 'ethnic minority' and who clog up our A&E's, who have the biggest percentage of their people in jail, even though they only account for 4% of our population. Yup, them. Huge problem. Absolute freeloaders

touts · 06-09-2019 10:12AM

Had that option. When we were moving a few years ago we found a house that seemed great. Large. 4 bedrooms. Well speced out. Estate was relatively new only about 3-4 years old. It was around the price of a 3 bed elsewhere in the locality. Seemed too good to be true.

Researched it on line. Turned out just around the corner there were a number of a social housing units. That address regularly popped up on the courts reports. Only a couple of family names but there were about 5 cases reported in local media over the previous 2 years. Went back for a drive around and found that area around the corner was part of the same overall building project but looked like a different world. Rubbish around the green space. A couple of caravans in driveways. Souped up cars with noisy exhausts. Houses were no older than the one we were looking at but several looked in need of repair already and gardens overgrown. We waited until evening and parked across from the house we were thinking of buying. Cars came speeding past with roaring engines. Groups of teenagers hanging around. Eventually a couple of young lads (8ish) walked up to us and asked if we were guards. We said no and said we were thinking of buying the house. They laughed and walked off.

We paid 50k more for a house in another estate with no social housing and never looked back.

Wanderer78 · 06-09-2019 10:14AM

Salthillprom wrote:

I'm also sick of paying taxes to fund families who produce huge numbers of children and are an 'ethnic minority' and who clog up our A&E's, who have the biggest percentage of their people in jail, even though they only account for 4% of our population. Yup, them. Huge problem. Absolute freeloaders

You probably should do some research into the root causes of long term unemployment, or you could of course continue with your ignorance

Raconteuse · 06-09-2019 10:15AM

listermint wrote: »

Grew up in social housing.

Am I a bad person?

Must be my degree and my wife's degree and our top rate tax jobs that make us bad.

Oh she grew up in social housing too. We own our own place now as do our parents. It was a great step start for everyone's life's.

Why do you hate people? Are you better than us ? Go on answer it be honest.

The hilarity of you calling someone angry when you're losing your sh1t on this thread.

What a knee-jerk, dishonest, misrepresentative post.

Nobody said anyone who lives in social housing is a bad person - that's you putting words in their mouth. Nobody indicated hating people or stated that they are better than them. Who gives a sh1t if you've degrees and good jobs and own your own home? That's got nothing to do with the question posited. Do you and your wife live in a mostly council estate still, btw?

Nobody with a brain cell thinks everyone who lives in social housing is scum. The vast majority obviously aren't. But the odds of anti social behaviour in social housing are higher and you know it. Most people who live in social housing know it and acknowledge it and many do what they can to move out.

And not every council estate has troublesome tenants making life hell for their neighbours - particularly the more mature estates, but stubborn denial (due to imagined insults) of the fact that overall the risk of anti social behaviour is higher, is pointless.

And responding to the list of factors given by the other poster with "you get that in private housing too" - very poor arguing. We can all give examples of individual incidents, but no, the level of hell described by that poster obviously is not gonna be found just anywhere.

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:17AM

Salthillprom wrote: »

The majority of social housing homes unemployed people. Not all, the majority. I read a recent Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government report that contained the statistics. No, I don't have a link but I'm sure a quick Google will produce it.

So yes, I have a massive problem with houses being provided for and built for absolute lazy oafs. People should not get dole for free and then use this free money to pay nominal 'rent' for free properties. There should be a programme whereby people who claim my tax money as their dole should be out cleaning up the environment or helping the environment or contributing back to society in some way.

I have a huge issue with the fact that some people do an honest day's work and pay back large sums monthly on their mortgages and two doors down, there's a family with 9 kids getting free housing and wrecking the place.

I also have a problem with one parent or two parent families with lesser numbers of kids by the way who get free housing. Get off your a$$es and get jobs like the rest of us. If your job isn't paying you enough to live where you can afford then upskill or move elsewhere. But to expect and take social housing is in my opinion just bone laziness. I'm not referring to people who through illness or caring cannot work and therefore don't earn enough.

I'm also sick of paying taxes to fund families who produce huge numbers of children and are an 'ethnic minority' and who clog up our A&E's, who have the biggest percentage of their people in jail, even though they only account for 4% of our population. Yup, them. Huge problem. Absolute freeloaders

This is not true.

The majority of social housing does not have unemployed people in it.

How are people allowed to put out absolute lies without facts.

Your gas.

Cyrus · 06-09-2019 10:19AM

banie01 wrote: »

Buying in a new build estate has never appealed to me.
The sense of community that comes as part and parcel of older and more settled estates is lost, and given the attitudes displayed by many people...
It is unfortunately not likely to ever be built when people are wondering whether their neighbours are social tenants and feeling a little resentful that they are getting a cheap home whilst "we" worked hard for ours.

I grew up on a council estate, and after returning home from a few years abroad in the early 00's my partner and I lived in a council property for a few years, indeed our son's 1st him was a council bungalow before we bought our house.

The old model of giant local authority estates is ghettoisation.
Social mobility is best fostered by raising standards and integration.
Not by isolation and labelling.

i live in a new estate and there is a brilliant sense of community, everyone moved in at the same time, everyone helps everyone out, the ladies have a book club, the lads meet for pints every now and again.

so your point about a sense of community being lost isnt well made.

we don't have any social units however, and i wouldn't have bought here if we did.

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:19AM

Raconteuse wrote: »

The hilarity of you calling someone angry when you're losing your sh1t on this thread.

What a knee-jerk, dishonest, misrepresentative post.

Nobody said anyone who lives in social housing is a bad person - that's you putting words in their mouth. Nobody indicated hating people or stated that they are better than them. Who gives a sh1t if you've degrees and good jobs and own your own home? That's got nothing to do with the question posited. Do you and your wife live in a mostly council estate still, btw?

Nobody with a brain cell thinks everyone who lives in social housing is scum. The vast majority obviously aren't. But the odds of anti social behaviour in social housing are higher and you know it. Most people who live in social housing know it and acknowledge it and many do what they can to move out.

And not every council estate has troublesome tenants making life hell for their neighbours - particularly the more mature estates, but stubborn denial (due to imagined insults) of the fact that overall the risk of anti social behaviour is higher, is pointless.

And responding to the list of factors given by the other poster with "you get that in private housing too" - very poor arguing. We can all give examples of individual incidents, but no, the level of hell described by that poster obviously is not gonna be found just anywhere.

Irony is lost on you.

As others have pointed out. You can't pick your neighbors. The scenario outlined in the opening posts isn't reality.

This is just another one of 'those' threads simple as that . And it invites on the same oil miscrients who use them and us to Stoke division.

Boring.

ELM327 · 06-09-2019 10:19AM

touts wrote: »

Had that option. When we were moving a few years ago we found a house that seemed great. Large. 4 bedrooms. Well speced out. Estate was relatively new only about 3-4 years old. It was around the price of a 3 bed elsewhere in the locality. Seemed too good to be true.

Researched it on line. Turned out just around the corner there were a number of a social housing units. That address regularly popped up on the courts reports. Only a couple of family names but there were about 5 cases reported in local media over the previous 2 years. Went back for a drive around and found that area around the corner was part of the same overall building project but looked like a different world. Rubbish around the green space. A couple of caravans in driveways. Souped up cars with noisy exhausts. Houses were no older than the one we were looking at but several looked in need of repair already and gardens overgrown. We waited until evening and parked across from the house we were thinking of buying. Cars came speeding past with roaring engines. Groups of teenagers hanging around. Eventually a couple of young lads (8ish) walked up to us and asked if we were guards. We said no and said we were thinking of buying the house. They laughed and walked off.

We paid 50k more for a house in another estate with no social housing and never looked back.

Problem is, your reality (and mine for that matter) will be screeched at by SJW (including some on this thread) that fail to realise that equality of opportunity is not the same as equality of outcome.

Given the chance, why would I pay 220k for a house beside the problem people you describe when I could pay 30-50k more and move to a nicer neighborhood. It's what I'm doing now. We live in an estate where there are some social housing and some others rented to people on HAP. Thankfully it's not near us so we don't get the noise problem but when seemingly endless crowds of unwashed children surge towards our part of the estate with no regard for property (public or private) you can tell instantly which part of the estate they are from.

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:20AM

Cyrus wrote: »

i live in a new estate and there is a brilliant sense of community, everyone moved in at the same time, everyone helps everyone out, the ladies have a book club, the lads meet for pints every now and again.

so your point about a sense of community being lost isnt well made.

we don't have any social units however, and i wouldn't have bought here if we did.

You wouldn't know and you aren't entitled to know either.

But I'm sure it's probably accurate in your circumstances just pointing out in general

Deebles McBeebles · 06-09-2019 10:20AM

Raconteuse wrote: »

Who gives a sh1t if you've degrees and good jobs and own your own home?

I assumed he just wanted to put it out there.

Glad I didnt bother replying now, you took the words right out of my mouth and saved me 5 mins of typing.

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:22AM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I assumed he just wanted to put it out there.

Glad I didnt bother replying now, you took the words right out of my mouth and saved me 5 mins of typing.

I suppose it corrects the narrative that people in or coming from social housing are scum

Over to you deebies....

Cyrus · 06-09-2019 10:26AM

listermint wrote: »

I suppose it corrects the narrative that people in or coming from social housing are scum

Over to you deebies....

but you have already made the point that there are bad people in all sorts of estates / communities so having a degree and a top rate tax job hardly corrects the narrative then does it?

Are you saying that you cant be scum if you have a degree and earn the average wage (which would just about make you a top rate tax payer).

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:28AM

Cyrus wrote: »

but you have already made the point that there are bad people in all sorts of estates / communities so having a degree and a top rate tax job hardly corrects the narrative then does it?

Are you saying that you cant be scum if you have a degree and earn the average wage (which would just about make you a top rate tax payer).

I'm not.

I suppose anyone can be scum.

Fair point well made.

Il change that to he narrative that everyone in social housing is a layabout unemployment oaf

sbsquarepants · 06-09-2019 10:29AM

I was brought up in a council estate, first place i bought was through an affordable housing scheme, mix of private, social and affordable apartments + houses. Place was fine, nothing to write home about but it done the job for 10 years, never had any trouble or anything like that. I'd probably still be there only for having kids and wanting a garden (i was in an apartment) Moved to a private area about 3 years ago.

That being said though the new place is much nicer, at the risk of sounding snobby it's just more civilised, the people are friendlier, more neighbourly i suppose you could call it.

This is the first time i've lived in a purely private area and there is undoubtedly a huge difference. You don't see people drinking on the streets, there's no sofas rotting away out side peoples houses, horses don't wander the streets like it's the fúcking wild west, kids aren't tearing up and down the road on quads and scramblers - all these things add up to a much more comfortable living experience.

Deebles McBeebles · 06-09-2019 10:30AM

listermint wrote: »

I suppose it corrects the narrative that people in or coming from social housing are scum

Over to you deebies....

Sorry, I'm far too busy in my top rate tax job to reply in much depth. Then I simply must clean the frames on myself and my wife's degrees.

Cyrus · 06-09-2019 10:30AM

listermint wrote: »

Il change that to he narrative that everyone in social housing is a layabout unemployment oaf

thats fair enough, for the record i am, believe it or not, all for a certain type of social housing.

So preferential loans or prices for teachers, police, firemen, nurses etc who are priced out of areas that they are needed in, something like the civil service london supplement in the UK. But it will never happen.

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:31AM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Sorry, I'm far too busy in my top rate tax job to reply in much depth. Then I simply must clean the frames on myself and my wife's degrees.

I recommend windolene

listermint · 06-09-2019 10:33AM

Cyrus wrote: »

thats fair enough, for the record i am, believe it or not, all for a certain type of social housing.

So preferential loans or prices for teachers, police, firemen, nurses etc who are priced out of areas that they are needed in, something like the civil service london supplement in the UK. But it will never happen.

As am I, but limiting it to government employees doesn't work or help the real economy either.

The Dutch model is sound. You should have affordable housing for all be it a barrister or the person who serves you coffee in the shop.

Incidentally they don't have that look down attitude on people there either depending on their housing situation. Alas they may also have a better criminal reform system too.

sbsquarepants · 06-09-2019 10:34AM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Sorry, I'm far too busy in my top rate tax job to reply in much depth. Then I simply must clean the frames on myself and my wife's degrees.

Cleaning Deebles? Really? Don't tell me the maid has been at the cognac again!:eek:

06-09-2019 10:34AM

Cyrus wrote: »

but you have already made the point that there are bad people in all sorts of estates / communities so having a degree and a top rate tax job hardly corrects the narrative then does it?

Are you saying that you cant be scum if you have a degree and earn the average wage (which would just about make you a top rate taxpayer).

But you would be amazed at the number of people who have internalised an unshakeable belief that buying a house or buying a house in certain estate is a ticket to a paradise, the children will be better behaved, the people will be "better" etc.

banie01 · 06-09-2019 10:37AM

Cyrus wrote: »

i live in a new estate and there is a brilliant sense of community, everyone moved in at the same time, everyone helps everyone out, the ladies have a book club, the lads meet for pints every now and again.

so your point about a sense of community being lost isnt well made.

we don't have any social units however, and i wouldn't have bought here if we did.

I was perhaps a bit too broad in my point.

Some new estates do have really well developed community groups.
Local to me Kilteragh in Limerick would be an example of such.
Some excellent community groups that are driven by a few very commited and hard working residents for the benefit of all.

Given the minimum 10% set aside for social housing however, the belief that people can just pay more and avoid the anti-social, social tenants is a fallacy.

In the usual estate of 2, 3 and 4 bed homes there is going to be a minimum of 10% social housing.

Barring spending on a house on a half acre plot, or in particular high cost developments where the developer has somehow managed to offset their legal obligations, social tenants are a reality in practically every estate and development in the country.

I live in a small cul de sac of @ 14 homes, I bought here in 2006 since then 2 moves have occured in the street. Very settled and everyone does know everyone else.
The sense of community here is fostered by being neighbourly, by helping and sometimes just by a wave.
The local bar is @600mtrs away, it is more of a community hub with walking clubs and the like all radiating from there.

My estate was built mid 80's and is in an area bordered by a student village, a couple of new build estates and a fairly large L.A estate.

The L.A estate is currently being demolished in stages, perfectly good housing stock is being destroyed and the problem tenants from that area are being exported to private estates.

Now given that when the L.A take over their allocation on those new estates, they will move whomever they like into their managed properties.
The belief that there is a possibility to avoid those people by paying a bit extra is a fallacy IMO.

There are people who are hugely problematic tenants, the current L.A policy seems to be to just keep moving those people rather than taking any enforcement action.
Thinking that the issue can be avoided by anything other than luck is naïve.

Cyrus · 06-09-2019 10:38AM

mariaalice wrote: »

But you would be amazed at the number of people who have internalised an unshakeable belief that buying a house or buying a house in certain estate is a ticket to a paradise, the children will be better behaved, the people will be "better" etc.

that's not always the case but it would be pretty easy to pick two estates and for their to be a high probability that in one the kids will be better behaved and the neighbors will be nicer.

Mad_maxx · 06-09-2019 10:39AM

Elessar wrote: »

Well, would you?

Say you're in the market for a house and you've worked hard and saved for years to finally put down a deposit on a nice new 3 bed in a lovely new estate for you and your family, only to find out that the houses either side of you have been bought by the council for social housing use. What would you do?

Be honest.

Me, I would be looking elsewhere. I had this conversation with some friends recently and they were all in agreement, the risk of bad tenants is just too great. What do boardsies think?

I wouldn't buy in an estate with any social housing, never mind next door.

This business of new estates being obliged to contain 15% social housing is social engineering of the worst kind

Would you buy beside social housing?

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