Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

ZX7R · 04-09-2019 06:43PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Makes no sense. Why would, for example, Hungary take the blame for kicking the UK out of the EU?

Doesn't make sense is right , there is nothing for Boris to offer in return

fash · 04-09-2019 06:44PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

Itssoeasy · 04-09-2019 06:48PM

I might be making more of this, but I wonder how the old guard Tories feel about the current PM kicking the grandson of Winston Churchill out of the party and may have hastened his decision to not stand at the next election. For all his issues, Winston Churchill is a huge figure in the 20th Century of British and world history,and his because his grandson voted against the government once he's out when the current PM voted against his party many times before with no consequences.

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 06:48PM

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Itssoeasy · 04-09-2019 06:50PM

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

I hadn't seen that but like you I read the headline and didn't feel like swearing but rolled my eyes. The backstop was a UK suggestion first.

prunudo · 04-09-2019 06:50PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Cummings should be frog marched out of Downing Street. This coming from senior Tory elders!

https://twitter.com/ITVNewsPolitics/status/1169237425568342018

Lord Patton on Sky News now having a similar pop and attacking the Johnson/Cummings leadership for the shenanigans they're pulling. Mentioning the fillabustering(sp) in house of lords and how they'll do anything to get their way.
The old guard aren't happy with the way their party is going.

Enzokk · 04-09-2019 06:50PM

fash wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/04/brexit-minister-complains-eu-has-offered-no-solutions-to-irish-backstop
Not sure if anyone linked to this so far- almost stated swearing when I saw the headline.

The part that gets me is this,

A UK government spokesman conceded that there was yet to be a meeting of minds in the talks but said the pace of negotiations would be intensified this month.

He said: “The prime minister wants to get a deal and is ready to work in an energetic and determined way to get it done. The prime minister’s sherpa [David Frost] will meet with the A50 taskforce this week and throughout September as talks intensify."

When did doing something almost entirely only with energy and determination succeed? I mean I could line up for Ireland this weekend against Wales/Switzerland and run around with determination and energy but I will not achieve anything. This must be another buzz word to use to describe Johnson, because I can see no other purpose as it is not doing anything to help the negotiations.

ToBeFrank123 · 04-09-2019 06:52PM

trashcan wrote: »

If there is any upside to all of this shenanigans it’s the spectacle of the Tory party tearing itself apart. Long may that continue.

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

Enzokk · 04-09-2019 06:53PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Why? The EU project is failing so it doesn't need one of its members to help it along. I also find your thoughts that a country in the EU will actually try to harm it intentionally when it receives more than it gives. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the UK will know all about that and would see it as a viable option.

Enzokk · 04-09-2019 06:54PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

How is their record on the economy and the NHS and why would people vote for it to continue?

is_that_so · 04-09-2019 06:55PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK just needs to throw NI under the backstop bus and undercut all of europe on the mainland. Could even make NI corporation tax 1%

Can't they even make NI the most disobedient member ever? Team up with the likes of Orban and just veto all the business the EU does until it is paralysed?

Pretty much everything is Qualified Majority Voting(QMV) in Europe since Lisbon so it would have little effect.

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 06:57PM

Enzokk wrote: »

Why? The EU project is failing so it doesn't need one of its members to help it along. I also find your thoughts that a country in the EU will actually try to harm it intentionally when it receives more than it gives. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face, but the UK will know all about that and would see it as a viable option.

if the UK can't sign up to a backstop that gives them no say but want to leave and can't then they surely can bring the EU to its knees to the point they are begged to leave

Kermit.de.frog · 04-09-2019 06:57PM

Brexit hard man Steve Barclay is on his feet so the vote must be imminent.

Harry Palmr · 04-09-2019 07:00PM

Just a word that Andrew Neil's new political digest starts in BBC Two now.

Infini · 04-09-2019 07:01PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its not tearing itself apart. Its sheding moderates and moving to the far right. They will still come back as the largest part after the next election. But it will be a crying shame to lose people like Clarke, Stewart and Soames to the HoC if they are deselected.

The Conservatives are basically turning into NewKIP and the Brexit Looneys are UKIP 2.0. They'll eat each other and rip themselves apart as more sane people will move away to the other parties. The conservatives look like they might get back in BUT remember May fell for that and they hardly got that far. Between Boris acting the bollocks and Farage with his urge for the limelight they could end up evicerating one another and the Lib Dems Labour and SNP all clean house.

Whenever theres an election the only chance the UK has at this point is if they dump the conservatives, they basically booted out those last night who were the pragmatic type so all Labour and the other's have to do is paint the rest as kippers in sheeps clothing to bury them.

Enzokk · 04-09-2019 07:03PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

if the UK can't sign up to a backstop that gives them no say but want to leave and can't then they surely can bring the EU to its knees to the point they are begged to leave

I am not talking about the EU, but Hungary. You posted that the UK should work with Hungary but the UK will not have a say in anything that happens in the EU. That is what happens when you leave, you lose all say in the project. But then to ask Hungary to undermine the EU when they are not a net contributor, how will that help Hungary?

Westernyelp · 04-09-2019 07:06PM

Caroline Spelman bites against the Government but doesn't loose the whip. Is BJ losing his nerve?

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 07:07PM

Enzokk wrote: »

I am not talking about the EU, but Hungary. You posted that the UK should work with Hungary but the UK will not have a say in anything that happens in the EU. That is what happens when you leave, you lose all say in the project. But then to ask Hungary to undermine the EU when they are not a net contributor, how will that help Hungary?

I said if the UK stays in over signing the WA and just is the most disruptive member possible. The EU can't evolve to its super state but will also have blocks on everything that is dear to them.

gooch2k9 · 04-09-2019 07:07PM

It's very frustrating Conservative's repeatedly calling out Corbyn as always wanting an election and "now it doesn't suit him". Of course it doesn't suit him, he's absolutely right not to jump into one if it causes a No deal exit.

None of the media call them out on this obvious point.

Suella Braverman doing just this right now, calling Corbyn hypocritical. In fairness, the Sky anchor has pulled her on it.

Enzokk · 04-09-2019 07:11PM

Westernyelp wrote: »

Caroline Spelman bites against the Government but doesn't loose the whip. Is BJ losing his nerve?

It wasn't seen as a confidence motion by the government so she doesn't lose the whip, I believe that is the explanation given.

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I said if the UK stays in over signing the WA and just is the most disruptive member possible. The EU can't evolve to its super state but will also have blocks on everything that is dear to them.

Okay, I had your argument wrong. So your argument is if the UK stays in the EU they should disrupt the business of the EU and make it poorer so it can be poorer too, and get Hungary to do it as well. Do you not realize how strange your argument is? If anything has been clear it is that leaving the EU is a bad idea, but your plan is to work from the inside to do the same so everyone else can be poorer as a result. Why do you think that is a good thing and why would you inflict that on other people?

Headshot · 04-09-2019 07:16PM

that cheer leader for BJ is on Sky News again

My god she talks so much rubbish and treats BJ like the messiah

Joe_ Public · 04-09-2019 07:17PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

It's very frustrating Conservative's repeatedly calling out Corbyn as always wanting an election and "now it doesn't suit him". Of course it doesn't suit him, he's absolutely right not to jump into one if it causes a No deal exit.

None of the media call them out on this obvious point.

Suella Braverman doing just this right now, calling Corbyn hypocritical. In fairness, the Sky anchor has pulled her on it.

Its all the tories have got right now, corbyn supposedly running scared of an election and the "reds under the bed". Let them at it, simply reeks of their utter desperation.

sliabh 1956 · 04-09-2019 07:17PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just a word that Andrew Neil's new political digest starts in BBC Two now.

good on you Andrew that tory has not a clue good god thats shocking

Mr.Nice Guy · 04-09-2019 07:17PM

Andrew Neil tore that Tory politician apart.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-09-2019 07:18PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

UK have been clear on citizens rights, all that are in the UK at present will be allowed to say.

It's literally got to the stage where if you make a statement I automatically assume it's a blatant lie or at best a twisting of the truth.

https://mobile.twitter.com/the3million/status/1168119901330006018

CelticRambler · 04-09-2019 07:22PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

I said if the UK stays in over signing the WA ...

Wot???

cryptocurrency wrote: »

if the UK ... want to leave and can't then they surely can bring the EU to its knees to the point they are begged to leave

If the UK won't leave because the UK can't agree with itself on how, when or why it wants to leave, then having a begging EU won't change that.

You do realise that everything is in place for the UK to leave: all they have to do is ... leave! The rest of us in the EU have been going about our business, enjoying the summer and generally getting on with life for the last six months. It's the bloody British that won't get their fingers out of each others ar5es and do what they said they were going to do.

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 07:27PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

It's literally got to the stage where if you make a statement I automatically assume it's a blatant lie or at best a twisting of the truth.

https://mobile.twitter.com/the3million/status/1168119901330006018

Find a real source not a tweet from "the 3 million"

Also find anything from MPs saying current EU citizens in the UK will have to leave.

An Ciarraioch · 04-09-2019 07:27PM

Johnson's new/old proposal is an all-island agrifood zone, which in and of itself is unobjectionable, but would only meet 30% of the backstop's requirements, as Peter Foster wrote earlier today:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1169290886343200773

cryptocurrency · 04-09-2019 07:28PM

CelticRambler wrote: »

Wot???

If the UK won't leave because the UK can't agree with itself on how, when or why it wants to leave, then having a begging EU won't change that.

You do realise that everything is in place for the UK to leave: all they have to do is ... leave! The rest of us in the EU have been going about our business, enjoying the summer and generally getting on with life for the last six months. It's the bloody British that won't get their fingers out of each others ar5es and do what they said they were going to do.

The UK can't sign up to the backstop for national security reasons. No national can sign a treaty that gives power over it to another state.

ancapailldorcha · 04-09-2019 07:28PM

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Find a real source not a tweet from "the 3 million"

Also find anything from MPs saying current EU citizens in the UK will have to leave.

You are adding nothing to this thread. Any more of this nonsense and your access will be revoked. Final warning.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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