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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Oh god would some mod ever take the three of you out. It's like a bar room btawl between a couple of teenagers unaccustomed to alcohol .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Don't be such a pussy

    Jaysus Declan would you ever quit.

    Debate the issues and leave the childish stuff out of it.
    You must meet fire with fire


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    Jaysus Declan would you ever quit.

    Debate the issues and leave the childish stuff out of it.

    He's gone to have a think about his next move. Ridiculous carry on
    No, I went for a take away mate


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Aegir wrote: »
    When britian leave hopefully they will all go back to the mainland we have tolerated them for too long

    Ok, so I’m English. I’ve never hidden the fact. I also live in Ireland.

    So let me get this straight, as far as you are concerned, I am a tan and should “go home”?

    I know the answer to this, I just want to see you say it straight (and not in text speak if you can manage that) so that everyone knows the sort of person you are.
    If you are not happy here and you think britian is a better place you should definitely consider going home


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,044 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    31st of Oct won't be a cliff edge. The EU and Ireland are already talking of turning a blind eye to it.
    No checks in and out of Northern Ireland. Business as usually. All talk of tariffs are scare tactics. We all know they can't put a border up.
    Where did you get that from?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    This is the EU chief brexit negotiator. He isn’t effing blinking



    ‪in tomorrow’s main Tory propaganda outlet the Telegraph

    EU Chief Negotiator @MichelBarnier writing in tomorrow’s Sunday Telegraph:‬

    ‪The backstop “is not about changing the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. That is none of the EU’s business” “I am not optimistic about avoiding a “no deal” scenario but I remain determined to explore all avenues that the UK government will present that are compatible with the Withdrawal Agreement.”

    “We should stop kicking the can down the road. Uncertainty has festered for far too long in the UK, in particular in Northern Ireland, as well as in Ireland and all other EU countries, for that matter.”The UK has now come to a moment of truth & it must decide if it leaves the EU with or without an agreement. If it chooses the latter, it means that there’ll be no transition period & no so-called “mini-deals”, as the EU will only act to protect its own interests‬

    https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1167903282037063680


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If you are not happy here and you think britian is a better place you should definitely consider going home

    Who said I wasn’t happy?

    You’re the one hoping all the “Tans” will go home.

    I’m not going anywhere.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A quite brilliant article in The Economist from 29 August, tracing the evolution of Brexiteers and exposing their claims at each turn.

    How Parliament can stop Boris Johnson’s no-deal Brexit
    One by one, the principles on which the Brexit campaign was fought have been exposed as hollow. Before the referendum, Leavers argued that victory would enable them to negotiate a brilliant deal with the European Union. Now they advocate leaving with no deal at all. Before the vote they said that Brexit would allow Britain to strike more free-trade agreements. Now they say that trading on the bare-bones terms of the World Trade Organisation would be fine. Loudest of all they talked of taking back control and restoring sovereignty to Parliament. Yet on August 28th Boris Johnson, a leading Leaver who is now prime minister, announced that in the run-up to Brexit Parliament would be suspended altogether.
    ... Because he is too weak to carry Parliament in a vote, he means to silence it. In Britain’s representative democracy, that sets a dangerous precedent (see article).

    But it is still not too late for mps to thwart his plans—if they get organised. The sense of inevitability about no-deal, cultivated by the hardliners advising Mr Johnson, is bogus. The EU is against such an outcome; most Britons oppose it; Parliament has already voted against the idea. Those mps determined to stop no-deal have been divided and unfocused. When they return to work next week after their uneasy summer recess, they will have a fleeting chance to avert this unwanted national calamity. Mr Johnson’s actions this week have made clear why they must seize it.

    Of all her mistakes as prime minister, perhaps Theresa May’s gravest was to plant the idea that Britain might do well to leave the eu without any exit agreement. Her slogan that “no deal is better than a bad deal” was supposed to persuade the Europeans to make concessions. It didn’t—but it did persuade many British voters and mps that if the eu offered less than perfect terms, Britain should walk away.

    In fact the government’s own analysis suggests that no-deal would make the economy 9% smaller after 15 years than if Britain had remained. Mr Johnson says preparations for the immediate disruption are “colossal and extensive and fantastic”. Yet civil servants expect shortages of food, medicine and petrol, and a “meltdown” at ports. A growing number of voters seem to think that a few bumpy months and a lasting hit to incomes might be worth it to get the whole tedious business out of the way. This is the greatest myth of all. If Britain leaves with no deal it will face an even more urgent need to reach terms with the eu, which will demand the same concessions as before—and perhaps greater ones, given that Britain’s hand will be weaker.

    Mr Johnson insists that his intention is to get a new, better agreement before October 31st, and that to do so he needs to threaten the eu with the credible prospect of no-deal. Despite the fact that Mrs May got nowhere with this tactic, many Tory mps still see it as a good one. The eu wants a deal, after all. And whereas it became clear that Mrs May was bluffing about walking out, Mr Johnson might just be serious (the fanatics who do his thinking certainly are). Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, said recently that Britain should come up with a plan in the next 30 days if it wants to replace the Irish backstop, the most contentious part of the withdrawal agreement. Many moderate Tories, even those who oppose no-deal, would like to give their new prime minister a chance to prove his mettle.

    They are mistaken. First, the effect of the no-deal threat on Brussels continues to be overestimated in London. The eu’s position—that it is open to plausible British suggestions—is the same as it has always been. The eu’s priority is to keep the rules of its club intact, to avoid other members angling for special treatment. With or without the threat of no-deal, it will make no more than marginal changes to the existing agreement. Second, even if the eu were to drop the backstop altogether, the resulting deal might well be rejected by “Spartan” Tory Brexiteers, so intoxicated by the idea of leaving without a deal that they seem ready to vote against any agreement. And third, even if an all-new deal were offered by the eu and then passed by Parliament, ratifying it in Europe and passing the necessary laws in Britain would require an extension well beyond October 31st. Mr Johnson’s vow to leave on that date, “do or die”, makes it impossible to leave with any new deal. It also reveals that he is fundamentally unserious about negotiating one.

    That is why Parliament must act now to take no-deal off the table, by passing a law requiring the prime minister to ask the eu for an extension. Even before Mr Johnson poleaxed Parliament, this was not going to be easy. The House of Commons’ agenda is controlled by Downing Street, which will allow no time for such a bill. mps showed in the spring that they could take temporary control of the agenda, when they passed a law forcing Mrs May to request an extension beyond the first Brexit deadline of March 29th. This time there is no current legislation to act as a “hook” for an amendment mandating an extension, so the Speaker of the House would have to go against precedent by allowing mps to attach a binding vote to an emergency debate. All that may be possible. But with Parliament suspended for almost five weeks there will be desperately little time.

    So, if rebel mps cannot pass a law, they must be ready to use their weapon of last resort: kicking Mr Johnson out of office with a vote of no confidence. He has a working majority of just one. The trouble is that attempts to find a caretaker prime minister, to request a Brexit extension before calling an election, have foundered on whether it should be Jeremy Corbyn, the far-left Labour leader whom most Tories despise, or a more neutral figure.

    If the various factions opposed to no-deal cannot agree, Mr Johnson will win. But if they needed a reason to put aside their differences, he has just given them one...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,785 ✭✭✭Panrich


    The thing with no-deal is what comes next. Unless the UK wants to live in permanent limbo with their nearest neighours then there will have to be a deal at some point with the EU. There will be no end to Brexit on 31st October despite what Johnson says.

    The fact that you see and hear several people saying in interviews and vox pops that they just want Brexit over and done with, means that there is a fundamental misunderstanding in what is going to happen with EU/UK relations after Brexit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Aegir wrote: »
    If you are not happy here and you think britian is a better place you should definitely consider going home

    Who said I wasn’t happy?

    You’re the one hoping all the “Tans” will go home.

    I’m not going anywhere.
    Brits that are happy here should stay,
    Brits that go on about how bad dis place is, how bad Leo and the government is and how great england is should consider their options


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    This is the EU chief brexit negotiator. He isn’t effing blinking



    ‪in tomorrow’s main Tory propaganda outlet the Telegraph

    EU Chief Negotiator @MichelBarnier writing in tomorrow’s Sunday Telegraph:‬

    ‪The backstop “is not about changing the constitutional status of Northern Ireland. That is none of the EU’s business” “I am not optimistic about avoiding a “no deal” scenario but I remain determined to explore all avenues that the UK government will present that are compatible with the Withdrawal Agreement.”

    “We should stop kicking the can down the road. Uncertainty has festered for far too long in the UK, in particular in Northern Ireland, as well as in Ireland and all other EU countries, for that matter.”The UK has now come to a moment of truth & it must decide if it leaves the EU with or without an agreement. If it chooses the latter, it means that there’ll be no transition period & no so-called “mini-deals”, as the EU will only act to protect its own interests‬

    https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1167903282037063680

    The signs are all there that the EU is about to back down and as I expected from the start screw Ireland over. The UK leaving with no deal will send the EU into a deep recession and signalling the beginning of the end for the euro project.

    The backstop is toast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 727 ✭✭✭InTheShadows


    Blueshoe wrote: »
    I'm from Westmeath.

    Are all Irish people pro EU?

    Unfortunately many are unable to think for themselves and follow the group think like sheep. Twas not always the way but this generation seem incapable of seeing things from both sides.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    The signs are all there that the EU is about to back down and as I expected from the start screw Ireland over. The UK leaving with no deal will send the EU into a deep recession and signalling the beginning of the end for the euro project.

    The backstop is toast.

    Hilarious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    The signs are all there that the EU is about to back down and as I expected from the start screw Ireland over. The UK leaving with no deal will send the EU into a deep recession and signalling the beginning of the end for the euro project.

    The backstop is toast.
    What signs are these exactly? Are you the only one who can see them? How will the EU go into "deep recession"?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,044 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Brits that are happy here should stay,
    Brits that go on about how bad dis place is, how bad Leo and the government is and how great england is should consider their options
    Don't be so childish!
    Why should they consider their options?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Unfortunately many are unable to think for themselves and follow the group think like sheep. Twas not always the way but this generation seem incapable of seeing things from both sides.
    Yeah, both sides indeed! Is this just one of those posts where a poster is annoyed that they can't persuade people to follow their viewpoint? Every generation back to 1973 has been pro-EU and that time would have included even older generations so unless you're talking about people who died in the 1930s can't see what generation you are on about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,427 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    is_that_so wrote: »
    What signs are these exactly? Are you the only one who can see them? How will the EU go into "deep recession"?

    The Eurozone has pretty much stagnated for 10 years despite negative interest rates and QE.

    It's major economy is flirting with recession once more as are several others showing signs.

    It won't take much to tipp it over to recession. Even without Brexit it is in very poor shape to be facing in to a global slow down, which is well overdue.

    That said, the damage of a no deal Brexit on the British economy will be multiples of that given its much greater dependence of trade with the EU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Danzy wrote: »
    The Eurozone has pretty much stagnated for 10 years despite negative interest rates and QE.

    It's major economy is flirting with recession once more as are several others showing signs.

    It won't take much to tipp it over to recession. Even without Brexit it is in very poor shape to be facing in to a global slow down, which is well overdue.

    That said, the damage of a no deal Brexit on the British economy will be multiples of that given its much greater dependence of trade with the EU.

    But not because of Brexit as claimed above. Trump is far likely to do for everyone than any knock-on from Brexit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The signs are all there that the EU is about to back down and as I expected from the start screw Ireland over. The UK leaving with no deal will send the EU into a deep recession and signalling the beginning of the end for the euro project.

    The backstop is toast.
    What signs are these exactly? Are you the only one who can see them? How will the EU go into "deep recession"?
    It's the chemtrails, signs in the sky you know. LV has popular domestic support, both in the Dail and with public opinion on Brexit. He's hoping that after Brexit day that the UK will quite soon come back to the table and get a deal, to avoid physical infrastructure going up on the border. However, I wouldn't be so sure. The UK is divided precisely because an advisory referendum promising all sorts, cannot be delivered through the sovereign parliament. So both sides are staking their claim to democracy, hence the constitutional spat ongoing. FPTP system means to side has to win and I'm not sure that the next GE will do that. If that's the case, the UK regardless of how its going post no deal Brexit and all that actually entails, won't be able to agree, in Westminster, what it wants, much like the current parliament. Talks of Nazism are wide of the mark, it's a civil war sort of set up with divisions with both camps. FPTP can't handle stalemate over such a divisive issue, and it has to go in my view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The signs are all there that the EU is about to back down and as I expected from the start screw Ireland over. The UK leaving with no deal will send the EU into a deep recession and signalling the beginning of the end for the euro project.

    The backstop is toast.

    If there are people like you at helm of the UK and I fear there is, then the UK is about to be helmed onto the rocks.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Its so funny to see Europhiles squirm, keep it up lads! The UK is leaving the EU, you lost, deal with it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    Is "in the shadows" Brendan O'Neill in disguise the plastic paddy he claims to be.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Oh here we go


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Its so funny to see Europhiles squirm, keep it up lads! The UK is leaving the EU, you lost, deal with it.


    Yep, the Black Knight is in full flow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    Its so funny to see Europhiles squirm, keep it up lads! The UK is leaving the EU, you lost, deal with it.
    Yes, UK is leaving the EU, then what? Ignore getting a deal with 27 of the 35 developed nations on the planet, that's on the doorstep, literally. What do you think the terms of that deal might be? Or is Ireland getting thrown under the Lego bus as promised?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    Its so funny to see Europhiles squirm, keep it up lads! The UK is leaving the EU, you lost, deal with it.
    It's been leaving for a while now, promises promises


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,427 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    is_that_so wrote: »
    But not because of Brexit as claimed above. Trump is far likely to do for everyone than any knock-on from Brexit.

    It won't take much for the Eurozone to go into deep recession.

    Growth wise it has been a disaster, a half baked project that No one wants to fix, especially not the Northern economies.

    Trump is blamed for everything these days.

    His rejection of the EU/Us trade deal, the Tpp trade deal and the renegotiation with China are long overdue rollbacks of the worst excesses of the neoliberal free market.

    If leaders over the last 30 years hadn't been so quick to throw their people under the bus, Brexit or Trump would be unheard of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 67,154 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Its so funny to see Europhiles squirm, keep it up lads! The UK is leaving the EU, you lost, deal with it.

    :):) You invented the game from the get go...you were leaving and you were going to get the easiest trade deal of all time. When you couldn't get that, you switched the game to trying to threaten the EU by putting a gun to your own head and that has failed too.
    Now the game has switched to 'you were trying to keep us in all along, you lose because we 'crash out''... :):):):)

    Brexit was that pile of rubbish in the yard, it's constantly in your way and disrupts the day to day running of the place, but you hate the thoughts of moving it. But the day comes when you get stuck into it and it isn't that bad...there is a period when it looks a mess until it's gone, and after a while you forget it was ever there in the first place.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I predict 6-8 months of gnashing of teeth from the remainers after brexit and then things will settle.
    Then other countries will look at leaving too.

    Maybe we can have the monolith disbanded in 10 years.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,941 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    biko wrote:
    Maybe we can have the monolith destroyed in 10 years.

    biko wrote:
    I predict 6-8 months of gnashing of teeth from the remainers after brexit and then things will settle. Then other countries will look at leaving too.


    Hahaha, hahaha, hahaha


This discussion has been closed.
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