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Science vs religion

13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster



    But for most of history metal processing was done with wood charcoal.
    Coal was only used when they figured out how to make coke from it.

    What?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭ Dr. Bre


    Everything has a creator it seems. So if god exists who created god then who created that god and so on....


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    tim3000 wrote: »


    Currently all of space is expanding in every direction. This is measurable by the red shifted light from distantly accelerating stars. Using this and some complicated maths we can measure the rate of expansion.

    The rate of expansion into what?? How big is the area we are expanding into


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    Dr. Bre wrote: »
    Everything has a creator it seems. So if god exists who created god then who created that god and so on....

    This is a ridiculously complicated question


  • Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭ BurnUp78


    God has always existed. Time is linked to matter and space. As God created the universe he is therefore outside of time.

    How can you always exist? What's he doing now just chilling on the edge of space sipping a martini watching his creations kill each other over which incarnation of him is the right one?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Eire Go Brach


    God has revealed himself several times in the past, such as when he created the Jewish people. Even today there have being people with a terminal illness that have had an encounter with Jesus Christ, after which they find themselves cured.

    I think we were all born with the knowledge in our hearts that there is a God, but some have chosen to suppress it. Given that the mass produced mainstream media has sought to move us to an atheist society, this has resulted in a lot of people being deceived by those who work behind the scenes at the top.


    That’s the bit I don’t get. The followers of Jesus Christ seem to make it up as they go along. Jesus was Jewish. So what’s the point of all the other religions if you follow him.
    The Jews did not believe him of course.

    In regards to being born with knowledge of a god. Religions get you young and brainwash you. Knowledge shows you that it’s impossible.
    I’m an atheist for that reason. If you look at religions like maths. It just does not add up. Hence making it impossible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭ tim3000


    Midster wrote: »
    The rate of expansion into what?? How big is the area we are expanding into

    I dont know cosmetology is not the Science I am most acquainted with. The previous post is just the condensed version of a lot of amateur research on my part.

    I have heard that the universe is expanding into itself. At the very large scales and the very small common intuition has to take a back seat to abstraction. The everyday laws that govern our day to day existence break down at these scales.

    The Science vs religion debate is an old one. If humanity was to disappear tomorrow and a new intelligent species to evolve all the old knowledge would again be discovered I cant say for certain about our religions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭ one world order


    That’s the bit I don’t get. The followers of Jesus Christ seem to make it up as they go along. Jesus was Jewish. So what’s the point of all the other religions if you follow him.
    The Jews did not believe him of course.

    In regards to being born with knowledge of a god. Religions get you young and brainwash you. Knowledge shows you that it’s impossible.
    I’m an atheist for that reason. If you look at religions like maths. It just does not add up. Hence making it impossible.

    As the message from the bible is being told to the people then there is no making it up from one generation to the next. Other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism believe in reincarnation, while others like Islam and Judaism believe in good works to get into heaven that can be exhausting. Christianity says put your trust in Jesus and he will forgive our sinful nature.

    You say knowledge says God is impossible but there is no knowledge to say God doesn't exist, actually it's the very opposite. If you say we are to use maths then what is the probability that earth is just at the right distance from the sun so it's not too cold or hot, that the magnetic from the moon pulls the tidal flow, that we have the correct level of gas in the atmosphere for our survival, etc..


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭ Ferajacka


    This thread has restored my faith in Christ in a way. All he asks is we believe in him with blind Faith. Seems like we have nothing to loose in that.
    We don't need to know how things work for that. Seems like if we do, something like CERN could figure it out but blow us all to kingdom come in the process.
    My worst fear is if the CERN boys destroy this universe it disrupts the creation of the next one in an attempt to truely end Gods greatest creation in the ultimate act of evil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    The biggest fact that didn’t happen, is that if god had let himself be known from day one of our evolution, held our hand and healed the sick, brought back the dead sometimes perhaps, made the impossible possible, this planet we are on right now would have been so full of people by now god would now be waving his wand every milli second of every day saving us and our families from death.
    If there is a god, and I do hope there is. I’m glad he has left us to make it on our own.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Not sure how that post relates to the topic in question.

    But for most of history metal processing was done with wood charcoal.
    Coal was only used when they figured out how to make coke from it.

    As for no such thing as coincidence ?
    Convergent evolution would suggest otherwise. Same with technology. Lots of people came up with similar inventions at the same time. Similar conditions often result in somewhat similar solutions.

    Yeah the “no such thing as coincidence “ is a red herring. Police have to investigate when there appears to be a coincidence, and sometime it leads to more info.but they just discount the times there is a genuine coincidence. Hence the heuristic that there is no such thing as coincidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭ locum-motion


    Science has been unable to disprove the existence of a creator...

    Y'see, that's your fundamental misunderstanding there. It's not science's job to disprove the creator.

    Science observes, asks why, and then attempts to prove if the answer it came up with is correct or not.

    Religion observes, asks why, then decides that some magic must be the correct answer, then says a person must have faith in the answer that it came up with, and if a person don't have faith, then it's up to that person to prove that magic isn't the answer.

    That's getting it backwards.

    If I don't believe your version of the magic, then that's your problem, not mine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Midster wrote: »
    This is a ridiculously complicated question

    It’s not that complicated. The claim is that everything that exists has a creator. So if a creator exists, it must have a creator.

    If the creator exists and doesn’t have a creator, then not things that exist needs a creator so the argument goes out the window.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    Ok so does anyone else think that in this year 2019 we were supposed to have messed up the planet as much as we have done.

    Since electricity for the masses was only possible in the beginning by burning coal.

    And the light that it gave aloud inventors to work throughout the night after then.

    Also most inventions after then invented to use that very same electricity.

    It feels like a path was laid out for us before hand and were just walking it. Lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,673 ✭✭✭✭ BorneTobyWilde


    Creating a universe is not possible. Life happened on earth, and on millions of other planets accidentally. I think people do have souls though, that death is not the end.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    Creating a universe is not possible. Life happened on earth, and on millions of other planets accidentally. I think people do have souls though, that death is not the end.


    So in your mind, when someone dies, is there soul restricted to only the earth. Or can a soul travel anywhere it wants to


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    I don’t believe in a creator.

    How did everything get here? I don’t know. I don’t claim to know everything. I’m ok with the fact that I don’t know everything. Lack of evidence to make a claim to knowledge at the moment so I don’t make a claim.

    How do you think did “everything get here”?
    So you don't know and call those of us who do.. whatever.
    In answer to your question..see last word of your first sentence above.

    How would you like to think we got here? Maybe that's an easier question for you to answer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    Creating a universe is not possible. Life happened on earth, and on millions of other planets accidentally. I think people do have souls though, that death is not the end.

    How do you know it's not possible?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    So you don't know and call those of us who do.. whatever.
    In answer to your question..see last word of your first sentence above.

    How would you like to think we got here? Maybe that's an easier question for you to answer.

    You know how we got here? Stop the lights. You should tell the science community to stop wasting their time, you already know everything. Lol.

    Oh I don’t have a preference for how we got here. Being led by preference is a truly terrible way to find out how things work. But that’s what you’ve done so there’s probably no point telling you that. I’ll just wait for the evidence and follow that.

    Lol “what’s your preferences”. As if my preference could have any impact on what actually happened in the past. That’s what religion does though. It helps people pretend they have all the answers. I don’t have all the answers and I know it. You don’t have all the answers but you’ve invented a creator.

    If you want to believe, go for it but don’t try to mangle reality to fit your beliefs


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    How do you know it's not possible?

    Amazingly, that’s the right question. How do you know...?

    If only you applied the same question to your own assertions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,815 ✭✭✭✭ endacl


    It’s not that complicated. The claim is that everything that exists has a creator. So if a creator exists, it must have a creator.

    If the creator exists and doesn’t have a creator, then not things that exist needs a creator so the argument goes out the window.

    It’s turtles all the way down, innit?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    endacl wrote: »
    It’s turtles all the way down, innit?

    I thought it was more 1 giant turtle with elephants all the way down :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,277 ✭✭✭✭ Ariana Squeaking Supper


    You know how we got here? Stop the lights. You should tell the science community to stop wasting their time, you already know everything. Lol.

    Oh I don’t have a preference for how we got here. Being led by preference is a truly terrible way to find out how things work. But that’s what you’ve done so there’s probably no point telling you that. I’ll just wait for the evidence and follow that.

    Lol “what’s your preferences”. As if my preference could have any impact on what actually happened in the past. That’s what religion does though. It helps people pretend they have all the answers. I don’t have all the answers and I know it. You don’t have all the answers but you’ve invented a creator.

    If you want to believe, go for it but don’t try to mangle reality to fit your beliefs

    Revelling in your own ignorance. I've seen it all now

    There's no point arguing with a fool, real or imaginary


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    endacl wrote: »
    It’s turtles all the way down, innit?

    That’s what I’ve heard. Or maybe there aren’t any turtles and it’s something else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭ Eire Go Brach


    The thing is as humans all we are is animals at the top of the food chain. The most intelligent animal on the planet. When it comes to death. We are no different then the fly dieing on the windowsill.

    We live on. Same as all the other animals and insects. Through procreation. Through our kids.

    When our body dies. We are just molecules and atoms. The universe just absorbs us and hopefully we become something cool.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭ locum-motion


    ...
    There's no point arguing with a fool, real or imaginary

    In this argument, I know who I think is the fool!


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Revelling in your own ignorance. I've seen it all now

    There's no point arguing with a fool, real or imaginary

    Admitting my own ignorance. The worst thing I could do is pretend I know everything by inventing any old creator instead of simply saying “I don’t know how that works”.

    Do you seriously see that as revelling in my own ignorance? Do you honestly think you know everything?

    You also didn’t answer my question on what my preference has to do with the reality of what actually happened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    Ok so this is my theory:

    (Stay with me cause it’s a bit mad)

    Since the very first tiny organism swam in the ocean, and the very first piece of vegetation took hold on the land, the evolution of everything that there is now, and has ever been in the past has been as varied as it possibly ever could be.
    Every mode of life explored to the fullest, then refined, almost as if looking for perfection in every line and avenue life could itself could make possible.

    Whenever people talk about evolution they always seem to talk about animals.

    Which I personally think it a little bit unfair as plants, bushes and trees have also had there own journey, and evolutionary path all of there own.

    Most all are pollinated by birds or insects, but in very rare cases, some rare plants have evolved in such a way that they can only ever be pollinated by a specialized animal (bird or insect.)
    They evolve together in partnership and become so specialized to each other that one could not exist without the other

    Like an evolutionary handshake.

    And the same goes for seeds, as some seeds are so deadly poisonous or sickening, if any other animal other than what was meant to ate the seed that animal would quickly fall ill, or maybe even die

    On the subject of seeds, trees for example have a problem in that in some areas were dropping the seeds straight down only results in the seeds being buried, perhaps never seeing any sunlight and therefore the seed is wasted.

    So, some plants, trees and bushes have evolved to make use of any available transport there is, some use the guts of birds and fall far away from were they came from, to be dropped inside bird droppings, others make the best use of the wind.

    Evolution created us, and although there has always been stronger and more deadly predators out there we found a way to fend them off, we have made use of the land like no other animal and prospered.

    Look at us now, we have built cities made of rock, clay and concrete, we fear almost nothing and were our own intelligence proves to slow, we have built computers, which will no doubt one day become a species all of there own.

    Now look into space, lifeless planets in far away places and the only hope of nature on earth colonizing them is through us.

    My theory is that, that was nature’s intention from the beginning. To grow and spread throughout earths land, and explore all evolutionary possibilities until one is found with intelligence enough, to give nature another planet to bring to life. Like the specialized animal taking the seed, we are nature’s only hope to keep spreading, and if we can make it to the stars, there is no limit to how our own animals and creatures will evolve again to suit the new conditions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,107 ✭✭✭✭ El_Duderino 09


    Midster wrote: »
    Ok so this is my theory:

    (Stay with me cause it’s a bit mad)
    [...]
    Now look at so ace, lifeless planets in far away places and the only hope of nature on earth colonizing them is through us.

    My theory is that, that was nature’s intention from the beginning. To grow and spread throughout earths land, and explore all evolutionary possibilities until one is found with intelligence enough, to give nature another planet to bring to life. Like the specialized animal taking the seed, we are nature’s only hope to keep spreading, and if we can make it to the stars, there is no limit to how our own animals and creatures will evolve again to suit the new conditions.

    Are you giving nature some kind of consciousness? That’s a big leap. How did you find out nature has a consciousness?


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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,015 Mod ✭✭✭✭ looksee



    You say knowledge says God is impossible but there is no knowledge to say God doesn't exist, actually it's the very opposite. If you say we are to use maths then what is the probability that earth is just at the right distance from the sun so it's not too cold or hot, that the magnetic from the moon pulls the tidal flow, that we have the correct level of gas in the atmosphere for our survival, etc..

    Or maybe you have it back to front, and life evolved to suit the conditions available rather than it being miraculous that the conditions happened to suit the life form that evolved.


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