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Why are men more homophobic compared to women?

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    #122
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,361 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You got that one in nicely, never miss an opportunity...

    I've no idea what you are talking about, spit it out if you've something to say.


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    #123
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    You got that one in nicely, never miss an opportunity...


    ooh-matron-kenneth-williams-carry-on-bouvier-des-flandres-puppies-for-sale-uk.jpg


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    #124
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    For the men who are homophobic, a lot of fear is based on them not wanting to be penetrated by the gay man who they don't like.

    A massive flaw in that logic is that the gay man may not even look twice at him or find him in any remote way sexually attractive! So its a non-issue. Its mad how many straight men think that, just because a man is gay, that they are automatically attracted to them...


    I think it's more that they are afraid somebody will think they are gay rather than afraid of the man checking them out.



    You know, I wonder how many wives would be happy with their husband having an intimate friendship with a masculine gay man? Like going out for pints, talking about their problems, spending the night sleeping in the same room after crashing out on pints and going for weekends fishing together?


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    #125
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Just because someone is gay doesn't mean the odd one can't be a leech and try feel someone up just like some straight lads do to women.

    Al Porter comes to mind.

    sounds risky, might end up with a glasgow kiss :pac:

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #126
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    When you say repulsed, I have an image of you shutting your eyes and turning your head away at the sight of a naked man or two men kissing.
    Dunno where the nekkid bloke suddenly came into it(missus!). You've gone from snogging to kit off in fierce quick time.
    It's a very strong word. I to am straight but I'm not repulsed by men because I am one. I have been in changing rooms with naked men, I've seen men kiss but it doesn't bother me (I would have been a bit uncomfortable when I was younger).
    What in perdition's name has being a bloke got anything to do with it? I mean I don't exactly relish of catching a view of sweaty builder's crack either and I am male and in possession of an arse. Would a woman be misandrist and in danger of using "very strong words" if she was exposed to that and found it icky? Nope.
    Again I'm not trying to police your thoughts but it does clearly bother you, as you've said not to the extent that you'd want to repress homosexuals but it does bother you on some level and I'm fascinated by the idea expressed in this thread that this is a perfectly natural reaction.
    Because it is a perfectly natural reaction, for me, and enough others too. I hate to break it to you, but people feel differently about different things. So long as they don't impinge on others then so bloody what? And maybe dial back the cut price Freud on the "it clearly bothers you" spiel? It's a tad trite at this stage.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #127
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    When you say repulsed, I have an image of you shutting your eyes and turning your head away at the sight of a naked man or two men kissing. It's a very strong word. I to am straight but I'm not repulsed by men because I am one. I have been in changing rooms with naked men, I've seen men kiss but it doesn't bother me (I would have been a bit uncomfortable when I was younger). Again I'm not trying to police your thoughts but it does clearly bother you, as you've said not to the extent that you'd want to repress homosexuals but it does bother you on some level and I'm fascinated by the idea expressed in this thread that this is a perfectly natural reaction.


    You know, there have been some studies that have shown that sex lowers repulsion levels and turns things that would be foul into traits that would be desirable. So, in fariness, two animals exchanging saliva could be seen as being something that could be dangerous for diseases in the same way eating with your left hand has such a visceral reaction in India. I doubt people would have the same reaction if it's stroking hair or kissing on the cheek



    But, I think wibbs means 'unpalatable' rather than repulsed. Repulsed evokes a rather hate filled reaction, but unpalatable is more like someone who does not like eating mushrooms and they see it on their plate.



    Also, funnilly enough, some of the most homophobic places in the world have large amounts of male intimacy. Russia have a kind of deep male friendship that doesn't really exist in the west, and the Arabic countries have a lot of hand holding and hair stroking amongst men, yet, they are very homophobic.



    Tbh, it's understandable, in the vaguest sense of the word, as it's a different kind of intamicy that kind of breaks the societal bond in those countries between the men folk. For a woman this would be akin to having a nice night with your lady friends, drinking wine, watching the sky, talking about life, and then your friends looks at you deep in the eye with lust. It would be a bit of a shock and probably not a nice one tbh.



    Just an interesting observation.


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    #128
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    You know, I wonder how many wives would be happy with their husband having an intimate friendship with a masculine gay man? Like going out for pints, talking about their problems, spending the night sleeping in the same room after crashing out on pints and going for weekends fishing together?
    Would depend entirely on the woman I'd imagine. I'd further imagine most would be more concerned about becoming a fishing/golfing widow than the sexuality of the guy who was going fishing/golfing with their husband.

    I would agree with the earlier poster re; bisexual men and more women's negative attitude to them. Bisexual women get an easier ride* from straight men on that score. From straight women it varies I found.



    *as I typed it..... :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #129
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Actually yeah RaBG, unpalatable is probably the better word.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #130
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    I don't know but if we were all gay humanity would die out. It's all relative


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    #131
    Reviews and Books Galore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Actually yeah RaBG, unpalatable is probably the better word.


    I MADE WIBBS CHANGE HIS MIND!!!!!!


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    #132
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Wanderer2010 wrote: »
    For the men who are homophobic, a lot of fear is based on them not wanting to be penetrated by the gay man who they don't like.

    A massive flaw in that logic is that the gay man may not even look twice at him or find him in any remote way sexually attractive! So its a non-issue. Its mad how many straight men think that, just because a man is gay, that they are automatically attracted to them...

    I’m actually not sure if you’re joking or serious, but most straight men would literally kill a man who attempted to penetrate them.

    I’m not being facetious, nor trying to provoke, but i would serve a life sentence if a man attempted to sexually abuse me.

    I am sorry if you can’t fathom how a lot of men feel this way, like I said before, nature has selected for the trait of homophobia.


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    #133
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »
    I MADE WIBBS CHANGE HIS MIND!!!!!!

    :eek::eek::pac:

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #134
    FunLover18
    Registered Users Posts: 6,793 ✭✭✭FunLover18


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Dunno where the nekkid bloke suddenly came into it(missus!). You've gone from snogging to kit off in fierce quick time.

    What in perdition's name has being a bloke got anything to do with it? I mean I don't exactly relish of catching a view of sweaty builder's crack either and I am male and in possession of an arse. Would a woman be misandrist and in danger of using "very strong words" if she was exposed to that and found it icky? Nope.

    Because it is a perfectly natural reaction, for me, and enough others too. I hate to break it to you, but people feel differently about different things. So long as they don't impinge on others then so bloody what? And maybe dial back the cut price Freud on the "it clearly bothers you" spiel? It's a tad trite at this stage.

    Sorry Wibbs, you said you were repulsed on a visceral level by men sexually, I was just curious how far it went and whether it extended to the naked body. Being a man is relevant to me because we have the same bits, I would be more comfortable in a changing room of naked men who I'm not sexually attracted to than I would be in a changing room full of naked women that I am sexually attracted to, I'm curious if it's the same for you. I don't think builder's cleavage and two men kissing are even remotely comparable in this situation. I feel that yours and others is not a natural reaction but I've tried to discuss it (it is a discussion thread after all) rather than criticise you for it, apologies if I've failed. And I was simply stating a fact when I said that it bothers you, if it repulses you than it bothers you, if it is unpalatable then it bothers you. Again, apologies if it came across as trite.


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    #135
    average hero
    Registered Users Posts: 432 ✭✭average hero


    This thread is a really interesting observation actually.

    Anecdotally I would agree that men are more homophobic than women but I don't have much to base this on. Secondary school juvenile slaggings for boys and the fact that I have found women to be more empathetic to homosexual people in general. I would caveat though that I have noticed that in my women friends group that hang out with gay men, they do not hang out with lesbian women and have gone very cool with one or two women who came out. Whether that is a pattern across society, I genuinely don't know.

    I think some of the observations about societies in previous years needing men who were masculine and heterosexual for both the survival and defense of their community were interesting and I think there is something in that.

    In my opinion, I don't think that blokes really care who a guy goes home with at the end of the night, if it is male or female. I think perhaps a lot of the ancillary stuff around the fringes affect blokes.

    To be HORRIBLY stereotypical here, lads might like certain music, sport, martial arts, cars and DIY. Gay men may have MORE of a preference for other music, fashion and design, hair, reality tv or whatever. Again - horribly stereotyped however I think interests and personalities are more of the difference rather than whether he sleeps with a man or a woman in his private time.


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    #136
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    I'd be extremely disappointed and saddened if my son turned out to be gay when he grows up, I'd still love him though

    Really? Did you vote in the referendum?

    What about your daughter (hypothetical if you don't have one)?

    Do you not like gay marriage or is it okay?

    I didn't vote as I was indifferent to the outcome, I'm not opposed to it, oppose gay adoption however


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    #137
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,102 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    I feel that yours and others is not a natural reaction
    And there's the rub of it. You feel it's not a "natural reaction". Except when you were younger apparently. Was it "natural" when you were younger? What you feel to be "natural" is pretty much entirely down to you and is apparently variable over time. It doesn't make it universally applicable just because you may feel something. I make no claim for my reaction to be universal.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #138
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I find two guys doing “stuff” icky. I can’t help that, it’s just how I feel. I’ll defend their right to do whatever, however I cannot help my feelings.

    First they came for the socialists...



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    #139
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    it's so mainstream now yawn...back in the day with the cottaging, Polari, Cruising starring Al Pacino...now there was a sub culture a man could get behind

    I think I'm going to need that ba dum tish monkey again.


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    #140
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    "phobia"

    "phobic"

    A con job. Take something someone doesn't like, twist it into a "fear", and then you turn the center attention away from what is disliked toward the person that dislikes it. Akin to "victim blaming" in some way.

    I don't like apples and most people don't like apples. Bad day for apples! So what do you, Apple farmer, do about it?

    Persistently and unrelentingly refer to these people as "applephobic", correlate it with as much negativity and finger-wagging and tut-tut-ing as possible.

    Eventually that fear-effect will spread as "fear", regardless of sex (but moreso men), makes people look weak. Nobody wants to look weak.

    There's your answer. It's a conjob, and that's why the question will keep resurfacing...because people inherently know it's a foooking thick concept, but are afraid to be seen as fearful so the conjob is tip-toed around and questioned in purposefully obtuse manner.

    "phobics", what a laugh :) you're all conned

    Forgot to add the important ingredient of fear, and how it spreads. The blame game begins amongst people who don't like apples as they attempt to disprove their own supposed fear by rooting out others who may be "fearful". It's beautiful in its effectiveness!

    5a77bfd71d438.jpeg


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    #141
    dd973
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭dd973


    A lot of male casual homophobia is little more than jack-the-lad posturing done to big themselves up and look hard, the more serious end of it is done by irrational and unintelligent types who for the most part are paranoid that it's some sort of contagious disease, it's an overly simplistic poundshop Freud myth that all Homophobes are in the closet, irrational and a bit thick more like.

    The only women I've seen go in for that sort of thing tend to be scummy types, who hold them in contempt but go for the sort of blokes who'd give them two fractured eye sockets as partner/parent material.

    Phobia is, I think too extreme a word for the most part as well, aversion might be better (or sceptic if your're Alan Partidge), not liking something doesn't imply that you spend your days and nights in mortal fear of it.


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    #142
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    FunLover18 wrote: »
    Sorry Wibbs, you said you were repulsed on a visceral level by men sexually, I was just curious how far it went and whether it extended to the naked body. Being a man is relevant to me because we have the same bits, I would be more comfortable in a changing room of naked men who I'm not sexually attracted to than I would be in a changing room full of naked women that I am sexually attracted to, I'm curious if it's the same for you. I don't think builder's cleavage and two men kissing are even remotely comparable in this situation. I feel that yours and others is not a natural reaction but I've tried to discuss it (it is a discussion thread after all) rather than criticise you for it, apologies if I've failed. And I was simply stating a fact when I said that it bothers you, if it repulses you than it bothers you, if it is unpalatable then it bothers you. Again, apologies if it came across as trite.

    I find seeing anyone I find sexually unattractive getting it on "distasteful", whether they're straight but ugly, obese, gay men or unattractive lesbians. Attractive lesbians is appealing however, as its literally visually two (naked women) for the "price of one".

    I've spent a lot of time around very naked men (ooo matron) in showers after matches. I dont find the male form distasteful, but i do when two men are getting it on.

    Its quite simple really.


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    #143
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I Live In Hell wrote: »
    Watching two men kiss would be disgusting but so would watching two old people kiss. Dosen't mean I hate the elderly.

    That's why two guys kissing is so heavenly, stay in hell ya divel....


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    #144
    IAMAMORON
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    There are way too many prudes on this forum, I am going to bed.

    34d09184373ce31900b662c3bd6fb312.jpg


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    #145
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    To follow on from my post above, just look at the examples here of people trying to prove how unafraid they are.

    "I regularly have naked mud matches with gay men and they do be lashing each other out of it left right and centre. But me? Not a problem for me. That proves how unafraid I am, see! "

    FOOk sake :p


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    #146
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    I think I'm with Wibbs on this one.

    I will 100% fight for your right to be with whoever you please ( age of consent provided), I really don't what what does it for you.

    2 blokes kissing or getting intimate in front of me really hits that "Ick" button inside of me. A good looking guy and girl would get my interest, as would 2 girls, simply because that's what interests me. A not so good looking couple, not so interested. A fugly couple? Nah, thanks.

    I'm not saying don't do it, simply that if you do, I'm not interested.

    That comes across way more pervy that I'm intending, but meh.


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    #147
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    beejee wrote: »
    "phobia"

    "phobic"

    A con job. Take something someone doesn't like, twist it into a "fear", and then you turn the center attention away from what is disliked toward the person that dislikes it. Akin to "victim blaming" in some way.

    I don't like apples and most people don't like apples. Bad day for apples! So what do you, Apple farmer, do about it?

    Persistently and unrelentingly refer to these people as "applephobic", correlate it with as much negativity and finger-wagging and tut-tut-ing as possible.

    Eventually that fear-effect will spread as "fear", regardless of sex (but moreso men), makes people look weak. Nobody wants to look weak.

    There's your answer. It's a conjob, and that's why the question will keep resurfacing...because people inherently know it's a foooking thick concept, but are afraid to be seen as fearful so the conjob is tip-toed around and questioned in purposefully obtuse manner.

    "phobics", what a laugh :) you're all conned

    Forgot to add the important ingredient of fear, and how it spreads. The blame game begins amongst people who don't like apples as they attempt to disprove their own supposed fear by rooting out others who may be "fearful". It's beautiful in its effectiveness!

    So you're saying, you'd put the tip in to show you're not homophobic, but not up to the hilt 'coz you're not gay?


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    #148
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    beejee wrote: »
    To follow on from my post above, just look at the examples here of people trying to prove how unafraid they are.

    "I regularly have naked mud matches with gay men and they do be lashing each other out of it left right and centre. But me? Not a problem for me. That proves how unafraid I am, see! "

    FOOk sake :p

    I think you are scared. Scared you might like it :P

    xxx


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    #149
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    Depressing thread. Suspected as much.


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    #150
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    Lackadaisical wrote: »
    Depressing thread. Suspected as much.

    Move it to the LGBT forum.


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    #151
    Lackadaisical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 518 ✭✭✭Lackadaisical


    Just confirms to me that I can't be affectionate in public as Ireland's still full of homophobes with their visceral reactions and so on.

    Hence it's depressing. It's just reality though. Not much I can do about it.

    Think I'm going to give boards and social media in general a break tbh. Finding it's just making me feel angry.


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