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Killer Robots

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    AI still sucks at visual recognition.

    Butterflies labelled as washing machines, alligators as hummingbirds and dragonflies that become bananas.
    A squirrel was identified as a sea lion and a dragonfly as a manhole cover

    A mushroom became a pretzel and a bullfrog, a squirrel

    And those were well lit pictures of complete objects hardly real world conditions.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    AI still sucks at visual recognition.
    Makes you wonder about airport facial recognition systems.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Makes you wonder about airport facial recognition systems.
    You mean the ones that already know they are looking at a face ,
    and where you can't smile,
    or wear glasses,
    or hats,
    and have to look straight ahead,
    at a fixed point,
    while standing a fixed distance,
    under ideal lighting conditions ?

    The only way you could make it easier for the "AI" would be to have a barcode tattooed on your forehead.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    The only way you could make it easier for the "AI" would be to have a barcode tattooed on your forehead.
    Shhhhhhhhhhhh Capt'n. If the fool in the highest office across the pond reads this, he will policy tweet it, claiming it was a product of his self-proclaimed genius. Real ID's for all citizens today; forehead barcodes tomorrow.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Makes you wonder about airport facial recognition systems.
    Makes angry face. AI attacks!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    RECF in April 2020?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    3008_0e7c_800.jpeg


    In other news the Pentagon are spending $10Bn on AI and Google won't bid because its too evil. And they let third parties listen in to your voice.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45798153


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    The Robotic Alliance Project. NASA gives an extensive list of competitions.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    The Robotic Alliance Project. NASA gives an extensive list of competitions.
    Cool comprehensive list.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    RoboSub is an exciting underwater robotics program in which teams of high school and college students from around the world design and build an Autonomous Underwater Vehicle (AUV). These vehicles are designed to autonomously navigate through a series of tasks. These tasks mimic ongoing research in Autonomous Underwater Systems.

    2020 International RoboSub Competition: Details Coming Soon!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    2020 International RoboSub Competition: Details Coming Soon!
    RoboSub killers?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    RoboSub killers?
    Reminds me of ole movie: "The Enemy Below" (1957).


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Reminds me of ole movie: "The Enemy Below" (1957).
    You need to watch Das Boot.



    Anyway AI vision still sucks
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/08/14/amazons_facial_recog_fingers_1_in_5_lawmakers_as_crims/
    Amazon's Rekognition system wrongly matched one in five Californian politicians with images from a database of 25,000 wanted criminals'
    ...
    Last month, police in Orlando, Florida, ditched Amazon's cloud-based recog system which they were trialling on live surveillance feeds because, despite a year of trying, they could not get it to work.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    You need to watch Das Boot.
    Indeed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin



    If computer vision was stopped now you would notice the difference. Not just small stuff like unlocking your phone, cancer diagnosis and supermarket vegetable prices for example would suffer.

    The human brain and vision system is remarkable and "generally" a magnitude better than computer vision. However for niche applications where speed, reliability, and/or workplace conditions are important they excel.

    The ratio of 1 in 5 politicians being a criminal is lower than I expected...:)


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    The ratio of 1 in 5 politicians being a criminal is lower than I expected...:)
    They were only comparing to a data base of 25,000 crims

    With a larger dataset more matches could be made ?

    The FBI have records on 77.7 million people in the US


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    They were only comparing to a data base of 25,000 crims

    With a larger dataset more matches could be made ?

    The FBI have records on 77.7 million people in the US

    So if a human took 3 or 4 seconds per comparison the original dataset would take a working week to go through. The full FBI data set would take someone their entire working life to go through.

    So AI vision might "suck" at this task, but it does it much better than a human can, producing a scored list of possible matches in minutes not lifetimes.

    At a local level, the data set is smaller and a guard who knows his local criminal population would be far superior.


    Note: Future headline "Killer robot with inaccurate face detection kills one fifth of all politicians.."


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    The ratio of 1 in 5 politicians being a criminal is lower than I expected...:)
    Depends on how you define criminal? Are we discussing suspected criminal activities, or arrests, or convictions?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    So AI vision might "suck" at this task, but it does it much better than a human can, producing a scored list of possible matches in minutes not lifetimes.
    Big data analytics.
    SlowBlowin wrote: »
    At a local level, the data set is smaller and a guard who knows his local criminal population would be far superior.
    Community policing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    Yes for a policing robot (killer) community policing would be just sorting the data (by proximity to the crime) prior to the matching process.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Depends on how you define criminal? Are we discussing suspected criminal activities, or arrests, or convictions?

    How can you recognise when a politician is lying ?


    Their lips move.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    How can you recognise when a politician is lying ? Their lips move.
    Like the Disney Trump presidential robot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Fathom wrote: »
    Drones occupy battlefields today. Airborne. Strike targets. Automated warfare exists today. This technology said to be an expanding "continuum." AI weapons development replacing direct human involvement. Should limits be placed on such “lethal autonomous weapons?” Computer scientist Stewart Russell at University of California at Berkeley thinks so. But is it too late?

    Ask I-Robot? Terminator? Sci Fi leads the way?

    Ref: http://www.popsci.com/big-idea-killer-robots-are-coming

    If we could resist using, or nullify the use of nuclear weapons, the battlefields of the future truly would be a sight to behold. Who knows what tricks and toys the US secretly have right now in there Arsenal, just in case they ever need it. Let alone the Russians, and that’s right now! Who knows what the future holds. The battles taking each other out would last a lot longer though than the direct battle after against us


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Reminds me of ole movie: "The Enemy Below" (1957).

    If you ever wanted to form a robot army and keep it secret and safe from harm. The logical place to put it and form it while they are manufactured on land, would be in the ocean. A terrifying thought for all you sun worshipers laying lazily on the beach in the future. Lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    AI still sucks at visual recognition.

    Butterflies labelled as washing machines, alligators as hummingbirds and dragonflies that become bananas.



    And those were well lit pictures of complete objects hardly real world conditions.

    Although true some years ago your theory’s are out of date. Things like what you are talking about held up the production of safe self driving cars for years. There now well past it. Picking robots at amazon for example can now identify mostly every product, deicide for themselves how hard to squeeze it when picking it up, and indeed were on the product is safe to squeeze it and pick it up. Secret AI developments are now so lifelike, and so capable it’s scary


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Fathom wrote: »
    Both. Skynet next.

    Current drone tech currently in use won’t hold a candle to second faze. Better at detecting there environment, any incoming dangers, better at taking necessary automatic missile evasion, deploying flares or onboard missile confusing devices. In the future, the only way to shoot these drones down, will be to use lasers


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Midster wrote: »
    Secret AI developments are now so lifelike, and so capable it’s scary
    Within 50 years (or less), we will have human-like androids; some owned by the ultra-rich may be difficult to tell from their human servants today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Midster wrote: »
    Secret AI developments are now so lifelike, and so capable it’s scary
    Within 50 years (or less), we will have human-like androids; some owned by the ultra-rich may be difficult to tell from their human servants today.

    As soon as they do that, and it’s perfected for stage one roll out, I want one. :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Midster wrote: »
    As soon as they do that, and it’s perfected for stage one roll out, I want one. :)
    The military will be first.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    The military will be first.
    Killer Robots: Russia, US Oppose Treaty Negotiations.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Killer Robots: Russia, US Oppose Treaty Negotiations.
    Killer robot escalation?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    Killer robot escalation?
    Two large military industrial complexes (profit driven).


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    I really wouldn’t be so sure, the tech is so new at the moment that even if there is a prototype for the military I doubt it would have been field tested properly, and that takes many years to complete.
    It’s ok to have a robot companion at home, light duties, very rarely gets dirty, but in the military these things will have to work well in snow storms, sand storms, rain, submerged in water, and keep on battling even when partially damaged.
    Automated battle vehicles are being tested right now though, most are RC but there are some AI


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Midster wrote: »
    Automated battle vehicles are being tested right now though, most are RC but there are some AI
    Just a matter of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Does it worry you though that the early speech only AI’s have said between themselves an later in a tv interview that earth would be a better place with less people, and that people are a problem


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    You don't need a great amount of "intelligence" to work that one out, I think thats widely regarded as fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    There’s a big difference between knowing your a problem, and being told your a problem by someone else though


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    A general AI able to monitor news feeds and the internet, and make reasoned judgement does not exist. Those robot "interviews" are just a TV show, much like Robbie from lost in space, they have very little to do with AI.

    Text AIs are really just "pattern matchers" much like computer vision, no real surprise they would come up with a widely discussed opinion that the have been trained on.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    If you look at our situation with a cold eye, and without empathy, people have babies who have more babies so there really is only one possible solution.
    So you have to kill, and I don’t mean just a few, I mean millions.
    We can’t move people to the moon or mars before the overpopulation problem gets out of control.
    On top of that we also have a low level air pollution problem, that’s causing rising sea levels, trapping the suns heat, causing more rain, bigger stronger storms, etc.
    do you seriously think a trillion dollar piece of AI isn’t going to think the same.


    so if we can’t move people large scale to another planet, can’t make our planet bigger, or more productive without harming delicate eco balances.
    The only solution is to kill people and I mean foot to the floor no holds barred kill. Because the more people you kill the more time that drop in population gives you till the population goes back up again and the situation becomes


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Midster wrote: »
    so if we can’t move people large scale to another planet, can’t make our planet bigger, or more productive without harming delicate eco balances.
    The only solution is to kill people and I mean foot to the floor no holds barred kill. Because the more people you kill the more time that drop in population gives you till the population goes back up again and the situation becomes
    Needs some science. Unless you have numbers that can be peer reviewed it's just handwaving.

    Population trends suggest a peak at 11-12bn

    Ocean floor methane hydrates can be turned into single cell protein easily. One large vat on the Liverpool docks used to generate the equivalent of an area the size of Wales covered in soya. But energy was cheaper then.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Midster wrote: »
    If you look at our situation with a cold eye, and without empathy, people have babies who have more babies so there really is only one possible solution.
    So you have to kill, and I don’t mean just a few, I mean millions.
    Demographically speaking, as countries develop, they have fewer births. Look at population pyramids and you will see the difference. For example, Germany is now at below zero population growth, meaning that its population is declining. There are several developed nations that are similar to Germany today. Today's lesser developed nations are moving in this direction too, especially with economic globalisation. If this trend continues, population growth will peak, plateau, and then decline.
    Midster wrote: »
    We can’t move people to the moon or mars before the overpopulation problem gets out of control.
    Space colonisation, or the permanent human habitation of other planets today is not practical nor economically reasonable (e.g., cost-benefits, profit incentives, etc.). It does make for grand sci fi movies, and perhaps with the rapid advancement of technology someday in the distant future it may be feasible. Until then, our mission statement will be to go "where no [robot] has gone before."
    Midster wrote: »
    On top of that we also have a low level air pollution problem, that’s causing rising sea levels, trapping the suns heat, causing more rain, bigger stronger storms, etc.
    Geologically speaking, the Earth has always had climate change. Such changes may affect different species in different ways, with many adapting and others becoming extinct (e.g., most dinosaurs becoming extinct about 65 million years ago, while few evolving; raptors, etc.). It does appear that humans have been affecting climate change which may threaten their existence, and if they continue to do so, there is a chance that homo sapiens sapiens will become extinct before they can slowly evolve. Who knows?
    Midster wrote: »
    do you seriously think a trillion dollar piece of AI isn’t going to think the same.
    Skynet becomes self-aware; makes for grand sci fi today.
    Midster wrote: »
    so if we can’t move people large scale to another planet, can’t make our planet bigger, or more productive without harming delicate eco balances.
    The only solution is to kill people and I mean foot to the floor no holds barred kill. Because the more people you kill the more time that drop in population gives you till the population goes back up again and the situation becomes
    These comments resemble Malthusian Theory of Population Control, which is problematic. Or the much earlier mythical or biblical Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, as illustrated by an 1887 painting by Viktor Vasnetsov, epicting Death, Famine, War, and Conquest as population reducing events.

    Although population growth is a very complex issue, if you could pick one variable that would help to reduce such growth it would be the education of women; i.e., the higher the education of women, the lower the birth rate (see US Population Reference Bureau studies). Why this occurs demographically has been subject to debate, but it does occur for various reasons that tend to support the above education of women hypothesis.

    There are other variables that may reduce population growth, rather than resorting to an Apocalypse.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Until then, our mission statement will be to go "where no [robot] has gone before."
    Revises Star Trek


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Black Swan wrote: »
    These comments resemble Malthusian Theory of Population Control, which is problematic. Or the much earlier mythical or biblical Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, as illustrated by an 1887 painting by Viktor Vasnetsov, epicting Death, Famine, War, and Conquest as population reducing events.

    Although population growth is a very complex issue, if you could pick one variable that would help to reduce such growth it would be the education of women; i.e., the higher the education of women, the lower the birth rate (see US Population Reference Bureau studies). Why this occurs demographically has been subject to debate, but it does occur for various reasons that tend to support the above education of women hypothesis.

    There are other variables that may reduce population growth, rather than resorting to an Apocalypse.

    Reducing the education of women!? Really!? And you think that might be the answer!? Wtf!? Honestly!?

    I wasn’t trying to say a war is a good idea either, but I do think that if a simple voice only AI comes to the conclusion that it is us that have become a problem, not just to this planets long term future, but to ourselves as well, what the hell do you think is going to stop a more sophisticated AI system that’s plugged into the internet and can talk to any other AI system on earth, or reprogram. AI is more dangerous than any nuclear weapon ever has been or ever will be. But if they did come to really what is the only logical conclusion (if you remove value of life and compassion from the decision making process) is that the problem is there are to many of us, and that they need to kill a s**t ton of us, in order to save the rest of us.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Midster wrote: »
    Reducing the education of women!? Really!? And you think that might be the answer!? Wtf!? Honestly!?
    The women's education hypothesis stated above was:
    "the higher the education of women, the lower the birth rate." Demographically, if you increase the education of women, they tend to have fewer children, and a population that exhibits highly educated women tends to approach zero population growth rate, and in many cases below replacement rate and population decline.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    I can see that, that might be true, because you do here about women now choosing to have less children, later in life, and some not at all.

    But what would you offer as a solution?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Midster wrote: »
    I can see that, that might be true, because you do here about women now choosing to have less children, later in life, and some not at all.

    But what would you offer as a solution?

    judgment_day.png

    https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1626:_Judgment_Day


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Heres a good question, why is it the better technology seems to get, our working lives don’t seem to get any easier


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Midster wrote: »
    But what would you offer as a solution?
    The population growth problem is quite complex, without any silver bullet solutions. Strategically, there needs to be a system of interventions, especially for lesser developed countries (LDC) where birth rates tend to be higher than replacement rates. Rather than the use of force, win-win solutions are needed, where LDCs want to accept changes to reduce population, perhaps as a byproduct of beneficial interventions. Furthermore, it is not my areas of research interest or experience, consequently there are others more qualified than I to answer your questions. Given this disclaimer, I will contribute to our discussions in some small way.

    Some past LDC sliver bullet interventions have been self-defeating, and have contributed to LDC population growth. For example, McFall's Paradox suggests problems, although often debated and criticised. People are starving in parts of the world. Starving people tend to exhibit subfecundity, or a reduced ability to have live births. The many feed the starving interventions (e.g., "Feed the Children," etc.), although compassionate, may produce unintended consequences. Feeding the starving increases fecundity or the ability to have more children, which in turn produces more mouths to feed and potentially more starvation, if the feeding programmes do not escalate by offering more food than before. Not only does the additional outside food interventions increase populations, but they also compete with, and may financially depress the existing LDC agriculture, to where many domestic farms may fail, creating even a larger need for outside food to feed the increased starving population. Additionally, there have been instances of corruption in outside food supply chains, where some LDC government officials may dip into the food flow and black market sell this food to enrich themselves. Agree or disagree with McFall's Paradox, one point that emerges from this discussion: There are no simple silver bullet solutions to complex population problems.

    The Core Periphery Model developed in 1963 by John Friedmann, and further elaborated by Immanuel Wallerstein's world-systems theory in the 1980s suggested that the core of rich, developed nations may not be interested in developing the LDC periphery nations beyond a certain point, preserving low labour costs, reduced regulation, and more profits for rich core nations. Surplus LDC populations tend to keep costs down, and allow for easy layoffs when business cycles decline, and cheap labour additions when business cycles improve. Where highly educated nations tend to have fewer children, lesser developed nations have more, along with a cheap source of labour, so where are the profit incentives of core, rich nations to completely share their education, technology, and vast financial resources beyond a certain developmental level for the more populous LDCs? Yet more theories to debate and argue about.

    Of course, if LDC populations continue to expand without concomitant advancements in education, finance, technology, and agricultural development, there may be revolutions, wars, or wealth adjustments per Will and Ariel Durant in their Lessons of History. And such threats of war may motivate the rich core nations to expand the development of killer robots to defend themselves, rather than fix the problems of expanding world populations.

    Just my 2-euros worth, after way too much coffee!
    Midster wrote: »
    Heres a good question, why is it the better technology seems to get, our working lives don’t seem to get any easier
    Anecdotally speaking, I am not sure this would apply to my work which often involves numbers crunching of big data sets. Advancing computer hardware and software has made my work more efficient, effective, and profitable, allowing for many relaxed smiles at offsite javahouse meetings of my research teams.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭SlowBlowin


    I watched the Jack Ma and Elon Musk debate yesterday, very interesting as they have polar opposite views on some important stuff. I have always been someone who warned about unsustainable population growth, but Elon has different ideas. He is most concerned about population implosion, which when you look at the stats seems a real worry.

    Looks like China is doomed, as they have a extremely low birthrate, massive growth and infrastructure, and no way of looking after the wave of old people that will soon make up the majority of the population.

    Any way, its interesting, the debate is about a hour long have a look on YT.


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