The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

AbusesToilets · 21-08-2019 08:59PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos defence is very good - so given the fact that he hasn't played in a year he will need time to knock the rust off. If he is still playing the same over the next two games then it would be time for the 49ers to worry.

I think that's a bit harsh. Took Brady most of the 2009 season to start getting back into a groove. Unfortunate timing for Jimmy all around. I wouldn't say this season is a write off by any means, but I think you'd have to factor in the reality of how long it usually takes to get back up to par from an ACL.

Foxtrol · 21-08-2019 09:18PM

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The Broncos defence is very good - so given the fact that he hasn't played in a year he will need time to knock the rust off. If he is still playing the same over the next two games then it would be time for the 49ers to worry.

Broncos defense looks even better this year with Fangio taking over but the team as a whole didn't seem to have too much depth after the starters.

The defence and Fangio had 2 training sessions against him to get a feel for him. I know they were non-contact for the QB but from all reports he did a lot better than the game. From watching the game it definitely seemed like the defense was a lot less vanilla than the offense which also didn't help. Lots of excuses but fingers crossed he improves as the season progresses.

eagle eye · 21-08-2019 10:46PM

It's preseason, it's unimportant. Time to judge him is week 1 of the regular season.

Christy42 · 22-08-2019 05:50AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

It isn't like Jerry was doing it out of the goodness of his heart, if Zeke got off he would be available to play for the Cowboys.

They're reaping what they sowed after how they treat Murray. They ran him into the ground on his rookie deal then offered him a terrible contract and he was never the same player again.

Zeke has to worry about a 5th year option and then the tag.

It is obviously something the running backs are all worried about now. I mean will Saquon be the same player in 5-6 year's time either? He won't be part of a running back by committee during that so he will take a lot of hits.

Star running backs are looking at never getting a contract at their full value after about a decade of earning millions upon millions for others (including the college game).

RB is a devalued position these days but they should still get a shot at the free market within their playing time to get that value.

Foxtrol · 22-08-2019 01:17PM

Christy42 wrote: »

It is obviously something the running backs are all worried about now. I mean will Saquon be the same player in 5-6 year's time either? He won't be part of a running back by committee during that so he will take a lot of hits.

Star running backs are looking at never getting a contract at their full value after about a decade of earning millions upon millions for others (including the college game).

RB is a devalued position these days but they should still get a shot at the free market within their playing time to get that value.

Should be something they take on in CBA but unlikely.

More RBs that have any power will need to force contract negotiations earlier in their rookie deals, like Zeke. How Bell was treated shows it is too late to wait until you start getting tagged.

Foxtrol · 22-08-2019 02:14PM

Despite all his insanity, this is pretty funny

https://twitter.com/AB84/status/1164386461791264769

The_Honeybadger · 22-08-2019 05:12PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Should be something they take on in CBA but unlikely.

More RBs that have any power will need to force contract negotiations earlier in their rookie deals, like Zeke. How Bell was treated shows it is too late to wait until you start getting tagged.

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

MileHighGuy · 22-08-2019 06:24PM

A couple of things have contributed to the situation, the new rookie payscale meant it was far better to build a team through the draft rather than free agency. A few top tier players benefit of course, but mid-tier players can be easily (and cheaply) replaced through the draft, freeing up even more cap space for the top top players.

RB position has always had a short shelf life anyway (with a few notable exceptions) with most backs seeing a precipitous decline in productivity after 30 birthday.....not long after coming off your rookie pay deal and a couple of franchise tags.

Finally, I think with the rise of advanced metrics it has revealed there just was not a lot of efficiency running the ball (with any back) in the modern NFL, and a few old truths were exposed i.e. a strong running game being an indicator of a winning football team.

That said, when all NFL defenses have been built to stop the passing game, some team will build it's offense around the running game, and off we go again.

MileHighGuy · 22-08-2019 06:26PM

...just to add...I thought someone had mentioned it earlier (can't find it now to quote) but it hits the nail on the head....

A good RB now needs to be a receiver really. Look at Bell, Kamara, Johnson, McCafferty ....these are the backs that can add that value to the passing game.

Edit...it was Honeybadger just above me that mentioned this.

The_Honeybadger · 22-08-2019 07:00PM

It’s a passing league without a doubt but the last couple of SB winners have had strong offensive lines and run heavy schemes. You don’t need superstars, just good capable RBs and crucially, guys that can block for them.That opens up play action and makes everything easier.

Foxtrol · 22-08-2019 07:36PM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

Not to get completely bogged down again but Bell's biggest issue was the lack of guarantees he was offered. Numbers on the face without looking at guarantees mean very little, especially for a position like RB. Big thing to look at when it comes to leaks about what Zeke might be getting offered.

Christy42 · 22-08-2019 08:00PM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

CBA won’t address anything by position, RB’s are almost receivers now as well in a lot of cases, that was partially the issue with Bell the Steelers did offer him nearly $14m per year but he wanted WR1 money which nobody was ever going to give him anyway with his injury and suspension record. Steelers dodged a bullet there tbh even though it probably cost them a playoff berth last year.

RB’s are definitely getting a raw deal though overall. Tbh if I was a GM id invest in the Offensive line first and foremost and try to get a good RB committee together with one good rookie and at least one bargain veteran. Even average backs can be very productive if the blocking is on point, look at C.J. Anderson last year. It’s easy to see how the situation came about, not sure what can be done about it tbh.

If you get a good rookie RB they can be used as a workhorse and avoid the committee. Generally if an experienced player is asked to do that it will cost a lot of money but plenty of teams have realised that it is irrelevant what they want to use a rookie RB for, it will cost the same.

If you go more experienced then you go down the ability chain and get a few of them.

Itssoeasy · 22-08-2019 08:18PM

Just before 9pm on NFL network during one of those up to the minute updates, they reported that hall of fame QB John elway was diagnosed 15 years with a progressive issue that effects a persons hands.

The_Honeybadger · 22-08-2019 08:19PM

Christy42 wrote: »

If you get a good rookie RB they can be used as a workhorse and avoid the committee. Generally if an experienced player is asked to do that it will cost a lot of money but plenty of teams have realised that it is irrelevant what they want to use a rookie RB for, it will cost the same.

If you go more experienced then you go down the ability chain and get a few of them.

Yes I said one good rookie and 1-2 serviceable vets, divide the carries whatever way you want then. Either way, when was the last time a team won the SB with a top tier RB on a big contract? I think we both agree you don’t need one.

If the cowboys can afford Zeke they should pay him though. He is a game changer, they have done a tremendous job building that roster in fairness to JJ, they were a bit of a mess not that long ago

22-08-2019 11:40PM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Yes I said one good rookie and 1-2 serviceable vets, divide the carries whatever way you want then. Either way, when was the last time a team won the SB with a top tier RB on a big contract? I think we both agree you don’t need one.

If the cowboys can afford Zeke they should pay him though. He is a game changer, they have done a tremendous job building that roster in fairness to JJ, they were a bit of a mess not that long ago

I think it's Stephen Jones that can build a team they have started drafting better since he got involved possibly easier to tell Jerry to cop on if he's your dad

MileHighGuy · 23-08-2019 09:27AM

An overview of which team has the toughest* road to the super bowl this year....

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/who-has-the-toughest-road-to-super-bowl-54-ranking-the-path-for-all-32-nfl-teams/

* as defined by a totally subjective formula invented by the writer.

I think it can be summed up thusly.....which divisions will be competitive and which will not, and that New England doesn't have to play themselves.

The TL,DR is Cleveland for the Super Bowl.

jack presley · 24-08-2019 08:44PM

https://twitter.com/cjzero/status/1165325048959438849

Foxtrol · 25-08-2019 01:34AM

Andrew Luck apparently has told Colts he is retiring... no one saw that coming

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1165435636893016064

letowski · 25-08-2019 01:35AM

Guys, as a Colts fan, I don't know what to say.. but this isn't a joke, this is Adam Schfters real account.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1165435636893016064?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1165435749619130368&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.colts.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dsystem%26controller%3Dembed%26url%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fkbowen1070%2Fstatus%2F1165435749619130368%3Fs%3D21

I'm actually in a state of shock, I hope it turns out not to be true.

Salt Lake Stallion · 25-08-2019 01:42AM

It's legit, NFL's official twitter account reporting it too. Shocking to say the least.

Utopia Parkway · 25-08-2019 01:48AM

Wow that's pretty crazy.

eagle eye · 25-08-2019 02:02AM

I knew there was something up with this latest injury but didn't think it was that serious.

Foxtrol · 25-08-2019 02:15AM

I'm guessing they're in shock too but Colts fans booing Luck when he was walking into the locker room is very poor form. The guy took so much damage earlier in his career, aside from the hits his list of known injuries is long. In hindsight, with him being a smart guy retirement probably should have been something on the radar and not quite as shocking.

jack presley · 25-08-2019 02:19AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm guessing they're in shock too but Colts fans booing Luck when he was walking into the locker room is very poor form. The guy took so much damage earlier in his career, aside from the hits his list of known injuries is long. In hindsight, with him being a smart guy retirement probably should have been something on the radar and not quite as shocking.

https://twitter.com/yahoosports/status/1165447513152749568?s=21

letowski · 25-08-2019 02:27AM

Very disappointing and embarrassing from our fanbase with regards to the above^.

In some respects its not completely unbelievable that Luck has chosen to retire. He was always a different type personality to your typical football player. In his years in the NFL, there wasn't one controversial incident with him. He wasn't on social media. He was a very reserved character. He was different. All the fame, money and the material side of things you get with being an NFL player wasn't important for him. It makes his decision tonight alot more understandable given what he has been through.

But still a massive shock to the fanbase and franchise.

helimachoptor · 25-08-2019 06:22AM

Pretty mental waking up to that. But he's had some serious injuries.
He's made his money, good luck to him.

Knex* · 25-08-2019 07:26AM

Colts are going to tank and fall into yet another generational QB, aren't they.

Edit: forgot Lawrence isn't eligible til 2021.

Tua, Herbert or Fromm are the options. Again though, not a bad year to be looking.

Itssoeasy · 25-08-2019 07:36AM

I'm shocked to hear Andrew luck is retiring but looking back at this off season this latest calf/ankle injury was very strange and badly handled, but you stay classy colts fans for booing the guy as he walked off the field.

jack presley · 25-08-2019 07:38AM

It’s a pity the story leaked before he got to release it on his terms after he spoke to his teammates. But with that vulture Schefter around, that was never going to happen.

Christy42 · 25-08-2019 08:09AM

Knex. wrote: »

Colts are going to tank and fall into yet another generational QB, aren't they.

Edit: forgot Lawrence isn't eligible til 2021.

Tua, Herbert or Fromm are the options. Again though, not a bad year to be looking.

Suck for Luck turns into Tank for Tua. Fail for Fromm? Can't think of anything for Herbert with illeteration so he is not an option. Tank for Tua is the best slogan obviously which is how the choice should be made.

I see this as another David Carr case, except Luck was more talented. The Colts organisation are 100% to blame for losing one of the leagues top QBs.

Poor form from the fans, Luck's first few seasons were close to attempted murder (yeah, yeah hyperbole but it gets the point across).

The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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