The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

OOnegative

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Dak Prescott turned down a contract offer from the cowboys which would have payed him $30 million a year. According to Jane slater of NFL network he's looking for closer to $40 million. So Zeke is sitting in Cabo looking for a new deal and dak has turned down a contract that would have made him the fifth highest paid QB in the league. I personally don't think he is a top5 QB but he and his agent clearly think he's worth more than $30 million a year.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/nfl-highest-paid-players-2019/s2560yib2yvwzjdlsfy10ox2

Not a hope he’s worth more annually than likes of Wilson, Rodgers or Big Ben. Cowboys mentality again!!!

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Dak Prescott turned down a contract offer from the cowboys which would have payed him $30 million a year. According to Jane slater of NFL network he's looking for closer to $40 million. So Zeke is sitting in Cabo looking for a new deal and dak has turned down a contract that would have made him the fifth highest paid QB in the league. I personally don't think he is a top5 QB but he and his agent clearly think he's worth more than $30 million a year.

Wow. He is off his head if he thinks he is worth 30m a year let alone closer to 40m. I’d put him in the 20-25 range personally. What has he really done?

They still have to negotiate with Zeke, Amari Cooper and Byron Jones and they just paid Lawrence too. It’s going to be a really top heavy roster if they want to keep all of the above.

Itssoeasy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Dak Prescott turned down a contract offer from the cowboys which would have payed him $30 million a year. According to Jane slater of NFL network he's looking for closer to $40 million. So Zeke is sitting in Cabo looking for a new deal and dak has turned down a contract that would have made him the fifth highest paid QB in the league. I personally don't think he is a top5 QB but he and his agent clearly think he's worth more than $30 million a year.

Wow. He is off his head if he thinks he is worth 30m a year let alone closer to 40m. I’d put him in the 20-25 range personally. What has he really done?

They still have to negotiate with Zeke, Amari Cooper and Byron Jones and they just paid Lawrence too. It’s going to be a really top heavy roster if they want to keep all of the above.

Yeah but we can say he's not worth it but in all likelyhood he will get paid something like that. Well with zeke not showing up and dak thinking he's worth 40 big ones a year, We've heard nothing at all from Amari coopers camp. It seems he's keeping his head down and not doing the usual cowboys carry on.

Itssoeasy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Dak Prescott turned down a contract offer from the cowboys which would have payed him $30 million a year. According to Jane slater of NFL network he's looking for closer to $40 million. So Zeke is sitting in Cabo looking for a new deal and dak has turned down a contract that would have made him the fifth highest paid QB in the league. I personally don't think he is a top5 QB but he and his agent clearly think he's worth more than $30 million a year.

Wow. He is off his head if he thinks he is worth 30m a year let alone closer to 40m. I’d put him in the 20-25 range personally. What has he really done?

They still have to negotiate with Zeke, Amari Cooper and Byron Jones and they just paid Lawrence too. It’s going to be a really top heavy roster if they want to keep all of the above.

Yeah but we can say he's not worth it but in all likelyhood he will get paid something like that. Well with zeke not showing up and dak thinking he's worth 40 big ones a year, We've heard nothing at all from Amari coopers camp. It seems he's keeping his head down and not doing the usual cowboys carry on.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah but we can say he's not worth it but in all likelyhood he will get paid something like that. Well with zeke not showing up and dak thinking he's worth 40 big ones a year, We've heard nothing at all from Amari coopers camp. It seems he's keeping his head down and not doing the usual cowboys carry on.

They have to pay cooper after giving up a 1st for him, deal will get done there. I’d move heaven and earth to keep Jones too.

Dak is a funny one. I don’t think he is even a top 10 QB but he wants to be the highest paid in the game? I thought he might take a small discount given that QB’s play so long now and being the QB of the Cowboys is probably worth millions in additional endorsements each year over a normal franchise.

They may have to let Zeke go the way things are falling

Itssoeasy

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah but we can say he's not worth it but in all likelyhood he will get paid something like that. Well with zeke not showing up and dak thinking he's worth 40 big ones a year, We've heard nothing at all from Amari coopers camp. It seems he's keeping his head down and not doing the usual cowboys carry on.

They have to pay cooper after giving up a 1st for him, deal will get done there. I’d move heaven and earth to keep Jones too.

Dak is a funny one. I don’t think he is even a top 10 QB but he wants to be the highest paid in the game? I thought he might take a small discount given that QB’s play so long now and being the QB of the Cowboys is probably worth millions in additional endorsements each year over a normal franchise.

They may have to let Zeke go the way things are falling

Yeah they probably do have to pay cooper but at the same time he's not causing a fuss which at this stage is good to see. It's was reported that dak wasn't giving the cowboys a "hometown discount" on the contract. Carson wentz is getting 32M a year on his deal but even without my bias towards wentz being an eagles fan I think Prescott is nowhere as near as good as wentz.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yeah they probably do have to pay cooper but at the same time he's not causing a fuss which at this stage is good to see. It's was reported that dak wasn't giving the cowboys a "hometown discount" on the contract. Carson wentz is getting 32M a year on his deal but even without my bias towards wentz being an eagles fan I think Prescott is nowhere as near as good as wentz.

Went is more talented for sure but daks never missed a game and as they say availability is the best ability.

Dak will probably get something in the high 30s and the cowboys have some very hard decisions to make. Although with the way the cowboys have signed guys before he could end up getting more than 40 per

The_Honeybadger

A healthy Wentz is considerably better than Dak Prescott, no doubt about it. Cooper knows he is safe given what they gave up to get him so he doesn’t need to cause a fuss. Zeke is vulnerable imo, it’s simply not worth paying top dollar for a RB now, even one as good as him.

Looking at their dilemma over who to pay you’d have to say they have drafted and built the roster up well over the past few years.

Guffy

Lily Thoughtless Swimmer wrote: »

Went is more talented for sure but daks never missed a game and as they say availability is the best ability.

Dak will probably get something in the high 30s and the cowboys have some very hard decisions to make. Although with the way the cowboys have signed guys before he could end up getting more than 40 per

Daks stats are better across the board iirc, obviously he's played more games so should have higher counting stats but even percentage stats are better

Foxtrol

This is clearly a case of a team leaking info to make a player look bad. Even if you take it as true that he did turned down a $30m contract, we've no idea how it was structured and the guarantees.

On the comparison with Wentz, I'd agree Wentz is better when they're both on the field but Wentz' contract clearly takes into account his issues with availabiluty.

If Prescott was playing in a rinky-dink market not a jot of ink outside that city would be used talking about him.

Jerry Jones needs are thorough health evaluation for even offering 30 million.

Adamocovic

Always hear stories of Peterman performing in training and then you see his stats are actually good pre-season.

Counts for little but surely suggests the talent is there. Make you think the mental side of this is definitely his problem, just not able to step up the level. Wonder will he ever be able to put his horror start behind him.

https://twitter.com/Foolprooffball/status/1161020195655340032?s=09

Christy42

Adamocovic wrote: »

Always hear stories of Peterman performing in training and then you see his stats are actually good pre-season.

Counts for little but surely suggests the talent is there. Make you think the mental side of this is definitely his problem, just not able to step up the level. Wonder will he ever be able to put his horror start behind him.

https://twitter.com/Foolprooffball/status/1161020195655340032?s=09

Or he just runs really well against teams that haven't fully checked out his weaknesses and have gaps in their backfield from playing second tier players.

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

This is clearly a case of a team leaking info to make a player look bad. Even if you take it as true that he did turned down a $30m contract, we've no idea how it was structured and the guarantees.

On the comparison with Wentz, I'd agree Wentz is better when they're both on the field but Wentz' contract clearly takes into account his issues with availabiluty.

That’s true, without details it’s pointless speculating.

If you put yourself in Dak’s shoes it makes a lot of sense to take a relatively team friendly deal this time and try to keep all your weapons around you. They are building a very good defence that will get plenty of stops and they were moving the ball well with Zeke and Cooper were there with him on offence.

The way QB’s are protected now Dak has at least another two contracts to look forward to, be it in Dallas or somewhere else, and he is in the best market imaginable to maximise off field income

Adamocovic

Christy42 wrote: »

Or he just runs really well against teams that haven't fully checked out his weaknesses and have gaps in their backfield from playing second tier players.

Obviously it's pre-season and that has effect but you'd have to imagine the mental side and dealing with the pressure is a big factor.

In training camp he always seems to impress, wins positional battles, wins over coaches and then gets out there and completely falls apart. A lot of his errors were mistakes and panic moments form him rather than brilliant plays from the other side of the ball. Despite sporting one of the worst state lines in QB history he still managed to earn 3 tryouts and land a new team after only a 1 month on from being released.

Even with pre-season being mainly second tier players, or 2nd gear he still has performed consistently well in his games before regular season starts. It's like a cycle nearly for him now. He's an odd one in my mind. Gruden is already loving him, and even before that first game was banging the Peterman drum. He had McDermott convinced too.

The man has shown enough talent and work rate to win battles against Tyrod Taylor, Josh Allen, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.
He's far from being a superstar but I think he's much more talented than his stateline shows, and honestly think it's a lot to do with the mentality side of the game and dealing with the step up. Gruden even mentioned it, saying how he's improved and is in the right mental state now....then again I think Bills said something similar too!

Realt Dearg Sec

Adamocovic wrote: »

and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.

Today I learned Mike Glennon still has a job somehow. Good for you Mike Glennon.

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

That’s true, without details it’s pointless speculating.

If you put yourself in Dak’s shoes it makes a lot of sense to take a relatively team friendly deal this time and try to keep all your weapons around you. They are building a very good defence that will get plenty of stops and they were moving the ball well with Zeke and Cooper were there with him on offence.

The way QB’s are protected now Dak has at least another two contracts to look forward to, be it in Dallas or somewhere else, and he is in the best market imaginable to maximise off field income

Really depends on what you mean by team friendly. On a pure dollar basis so far in his career he has been ridiculously underpaid, with his earnings for 3 years as a starting QB being only totalled $2m. In comparison, Wentz has already earned 10 times that number, not even taking into account the new deal, and even a failed QB like Paxton Lynch has double Dak's career earnings, with a year less in the league and never becoming a starter. I can completely understand why Dak may feel annoyed by that and want to get his long overdue pay day, he's already done the 'team friendly' deal, now it is someone elses turn.

eagle eye

I'd love to see them throw Mike White into a couple of games in the fourth quarter. That would show Dak that they might just go without him and see how he reacts to it, they might even get lucky and find they have a better QB on their roster.

The_Honeybadger

Foxtrol wrote: »

Really depends on what you mean by team friendly. On a pure dollar basis so far in his career he has been ridiculously underpaid, with his earnings for 3 years as a starting QB being only totalled $2m. In comparison, Wentz has already earned 10 times that number, not even taking into account the new deal, and even a failed QB like Paxton Lynch has double Dak's career earnings, with a year less in the league and never becoming a starter. I can completely understand why Dak may feel annoyed by that and want to get his long overdue pay day, he's already done the 'team friendly' deal, now it is someone elses turn.

That’s very true but that’s purely down to where he was drafted. Don’t forget he makes millions each year being the face of Beats, AT & T and all sorts of other stuff. Paxton Lynch would be lucky to be asked to open a new Starbucks.

If they really are going to give him close to $ 30m a year then he will go from being one of the best value players in the league to possibly one of the worst at the stroke of a pen, ate bread is soon forgotten as they say. It’s a delicate situation with everything else going on around him. I’ll be interested to see how the Cowboys handle it.

Christy42

Adamocovic wrote: »

Obviously it's pre-season and that has effect but you'd have to imagine the mental side and dealing with the pressure is a big factor.

In training camp he always seems to impress, wins positional battles, wins over coaches and then gets out there and completely falls apart. A lot of his errors were mistakes and panic moments form him rather than brilliant plays from the other side of the ball. Despite sporting one of the worst state lines in QB history he still managed to earn 3 tryouts and land a new team after only a 1 month on from being released.

Even with pre-season being mainly second tier players, or 2nd gear he still has performed consistently well in his games before regular season starts. It's like a cycle nearly for him now. He's an odd one in my mind. Gruden is already loving him, and even before that first game was banging the Peterman drum. He had McDermott convinced too.

The man has shown enough talent and work rate to win battles against Tyrod Taylor, Josh Allen, AJ McCarron, TJ Yates, and now quite possibly Mike Glennon.
He's far from being a superstar but I think he's much more talented than his stateline shows, and honestly think it's a lot to do with the mentality side of the game and dealing with the step up. Gruden even mentioned it, saying how he's improved and is in the right mental state now....then again I think Bills said something similar too!

I didn't think it was brilliant plays from the defense. Players just did their job and Peterman couldn't deal with it at that level. Not that I could either. Maybe the extra time and space in practice/preseason suits him really well. Still won't make it on a pitch (but coaching and benching may suit him).

Beating Tyrod is a stretch. They benched Tyrod to prove a point and were forced to put him back on. They then dropped him over arguments as opposed to ever really believing Peterman was a better player. Tyrod has led NFL offenses to mediocrity.

Certainly the mental side has an effect but I am not sure he really ever got up to the speed of an actual NFL game.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

I'd love to see them throw Mike White into a couple of games in the fourth quarter. That would show Dak that they might just go without him and see how he reacts to it, they might even get lucky and find they have a better QB on their roster.

White looked pretty bad against the 49ers 3rd/4th string guys at the weekend so I don't think Dak is too worried.

Foxtrol

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

That’s very true but that’s purely down to where he was drafted. Don’t forget he makes millions each year being the face of Beats, AT & T and all sorts of other stuff. Paxton Lynch would be lucky to be asked to open a new Starbucks.

If they really are going to give him close to $ 30m a year then he will go from being one of the best value players in the league to possibly one of the worst at the stroke of a pen, ate bread is soon forgotten as they say. It’s a delicate situation with everything else going on around him. I’ll be interested to see how the Cowboys handle it.

It is down to where he got drafted and the Cowboys have gotten a great deal because of it. Dak now has leverage due to his performances so it is completely unfair to turn around and say he should take one for the team, after taking it for the last 3 years. Around $30m is the going rate for a decent QB these days, if the Cowboys want to risk the draft they are free to do so but it is massive gamble for Jerry getting to see another Super Bowl challenge.

Dak will end up getting near the same money as Wentz. Cowboys released the $40m thing to a) make him look bad and b) make them not look bad when he doesn't get near $40m.

D9Male

Agree, it makes no sense for Dak to take a team friendly deal. He might get injured, or stink the place out in his next contract.

He is right to strike while the iron is hot.

Adamocovic

Christy42 wrote: »

I didn't think it was brilliant plays from the defense. Players just did their job and Peterman couldn't deal with it at that level. Not that I could either. Maybe the extra time and space in practice/preseason suits him really well. Still won't make it on a pitch (but coaching and benching may suit him).

Beating Tyrod is a stretch. They benched Tyrod to prove a point and were forced to put him back on. They then dropped him over arguments as opposed to ever really believing Peterman was a better player. Tyrod has led NFL offenses to mediocrity.

Certainly the mental side has an effect but I am not sure he really ever got up to the speed of an actual NFL game.

True, he has shown to struggle with quick/correct decision making when given the nod to play.

Maybe I attribute too much of that struggle to him not being calm or confident when playing rather than just not having the ability.

I do find it somewhat funny/interesting though in the trainings/pre-season he's ballin well, winning competitions and coaches over but then just struggles to make an impact in the real thing. It is sounding very much like it may happen to Gruden now and I wouldn't be surprised to see Peterman win the backup role.

Normally if you'd look at what he's done on the pitch you'd think he wouldn't have a job in the league!

Itssoeasy

So it’s been reported on espn that zeke Elliot won’t play this year without a new contract. I can see why the cowboys might be waiting because of the issues zeke seems to get himself into off the field, but if zeke wants to sit home then fine. I’m sure the eagles defense won’t be that cut up not having to plan for him twice this season.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

White looked pretty bad against the 49ers 3rd/4th string guys at the weekend so I don't think Dak is too worried.

Preseason means nothing. You have to remember that he was also playing with 3rd/4th stringers as well.
Little history, a guy looked awful back in 2000 in preseason playing with the depth, his name was Tom Brady.
I'm not saying that White is the answer, just think he should be given a chance.
As for Prescott, I don't think he is worth the money they are offering him nevermind what he is looking for.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

Preseason means nothing. You have to remember that he was also playing with 3rd/4th stringers as well.
Little history, a guy looked awful back in 2000 in preseason playing with the depth, his name was Tom Brady.
I'm not saying that White is the answer, just think he should be given a chance.
As for Prescott, I don't think he is worth the money they are offering him nevermind what he is looking for.

What does White have to do with Tom Brady

Preseason means far more than nothing for young players fighting for a spot. Failing in the first preseason game isn't the end of a guy's season/career, but you'd expect that a QB you believe can show the Cowboys they 'might do without' their starting QB for the last 3 seasons might stand out, or even show himself capable, when surrounded by 3rd/4th string players.

White might improve but from the chance he's gotten so far he doesn't deserve more. You talk about him possibly being a better player than Dak when he didn't even look like the 2nd best QB on the Cowboys team, probably 5th best on the field that day.

The_Honeybadger

Itssoeasy wrote: »

So it’s been reported on espn that zeke Elliot won’t play this year without a new contract. I can see why the cowboys might be waiting because of the issues zeke seems to get himself into off the field, but if zeke wants to sit home then fine. I’m sure the eagles defense won’t be that cut up not having to plan for him twice this season.

Pity if he does sit out, love watching that guy play he is so dynamic. Eagles will probably win the Division anyway unless they get a bad run of injuries but Dallas can make it interesting if they have everyone on the field.

I think he has to show up after week 10 or he won’t accrue a season and he will be back to square one next off season.

eagle eye

Foxtrol wrote: »

What does White have to do with Tom Brady

Preseason means far more than nothing for young players fighting for a spot. Failing in the first preseason game isn't the end of a guy's season/career, but you'd expect that a QB you believe can show the Cowboys they 'might do without' their starting QB for the last 3 seasons might stand out, or even show himself capable, when surrounded by 3rd/4th string players.

White might improve but from the chance he's gotten so far he doesn't deserve more. You talk about him possibly being a better player than Dak when he didn't even look like the 2nd best QB on the Cowboys team, probably 5th best on the field that day.

You seems little confused
Firstly Tom Brady was the 199th pick in the 2000 draft who was fighting for a roster spot and looked awful in preseason. The reason I use that example is to show that you cannot tell anything about a player based on a preseason game.

I never said that White was the answer and this isn't his rookie season either. I'm saying you'd never know but it wouldn't be hugely difficult to be better than Dak, imo he is a middle of the road average starting QB.

As for your suggestion that somebody should stand out playing with 3rd and 4th stringers I'll tell you that's it's extremely difficult for a QB more than any other position to look good with lesser players around him. The reasons for that are many and include awful pass protection and WR's running wrong routes and dropping balls.
It's much easier for a RB to look real good because most of these undrafted rookies will have done lots of run blocking on college.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

You seems little confused
Firstly Tom Brady was the 199th pick in the 2000 draft who was fighting for a roster spot and looked awful in preseason. The reason I use that example is to show that you cannot tell anything about a player based on a preseason game.

The only thing I'm confused about is why you'd try to support your opinion with an example of a player that is clearly a complete outlier. For every Brady there are hundreds of examples of later round QBs that looked god awful in preseason and never improved to be NFL starter level, forget about the level of Brady or even Dak.

I never said that White was the answer and this isn't his rookie season either. I'm saying you'd never know but it wouldn't be hugely difficult to be better than Dak, imo he is a middle of the road average starting QB.

What you basically said was that White might be the answer, which I can see little to no evidence of aside from some online hype. I had to double take when I read your post after seeing him at the weekend.

As for your suggestion that somebody should stand out playing with 3rd and 4th stringers I'll tell you that's it's extremely difficult for a QB more than any other position to look good with lesser players around him. The reasons for that are many and include awful pass protection and WR's running wrong routes and dropping balls.
It's much easier for a RB to look real good because most of these undrafted rookies will have done lots of run blocking on college.

If you're saying the player might be better than a 3 year QB starter, that in that time led his team to 2 playoffs, won rookie of the year, and 2 pro bowls (no matter how little you rate them), then yes I expect him to stand out or at least look competent.

I'm not writing White off but saying he might be better than Dak is absolute nonsense at this point.