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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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    #2612
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    How can they be all different and all equal when the definition is the exact opposite?

    equal
    /ˈiːkw(ə)l/
    adjective
    being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value

    different
    /ˈdɪf(ə)r(ə)nt/
    adjective
    not the same as another or each other; unlike in nature, form, or quality

    What follows then, is if all races aren't equal, there must then be some hierarchy?

    Which race, in your mind, is top of the pile?


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    #2613
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Why does it matter are you a racist?

    It matters because you yourself, put weight on lineage to the point where you view a person as less Irish because of it.


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    #2614
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,469 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Why does it matter are you a racist?

    You're the one who started the discussion on lineage.


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    #2615
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,886 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »

    Well the left regularly go on about equality but then celebrate diversity don't you think it's a tad hypocritical to say we're all equal then celebrate diversity. Why does diversity matter if we're all equal?
    Is this what constitutes 'debate' or 'analysis' on alt-right sites? It's like something you'd get from a six year old trying to be cranky.


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Can you please tell me what is a "hate crime"?


    Here's a good starting point
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Surely all crime is driven by a degree of hatred.


    Really? Dropping litter? Not paying TV licence? Breaking the speed limit? Have you thought this through?


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    #2616
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Is this what constitutes 'debate' or 'analysis' on alt-right sites? It's like something you'd get from a six year old trying to be cranky.

    Can't say don't know much about alt right sites tbh
    Here's a good starting point
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime

    I'm not going to deny that a crime may be motivated by racial prejudice however crime is generally punished due to the actions of the perpatrator not the motives of the perpetrator. Do you believe that an attack on a Muslim should be punished any differently to an attack on Christian in Ireland?
    Really? Dropping litter? Not paying TV licence? Breaking the speed limit? Have you thought this through?

    Yes they are motivated by some level of hatred if someone drops litter then they have a level of hatred towards their surroundings, community and enviroment, not paying the tv licence shows a level of hatred towards the governemnt and breaking the speed limit shows a level of hatred towards the safety of other road users.


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    #2617
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    It's assualt. I honestly don't see why crime should be treated depending on the motive. All crime should be treated the same regardless of the motive. An attack on a white man should be treated the exact same as a racially motivated attack on a black man with the perpetrator getting the same sentence depending on the severity of the crime and damage inflicted on the victim.

    I am in no way excusing but without proper sentences scum will be scum and will always find an excuse to inflict damage on another person. For example there is a big anti racism campaign on public transport at the moment and stories about non national bus and Luas drivers being racially abused and attacked however I know for a fact that Irish drivers are also regular victims of verbal and physical abuse.

    In my opinion the campaigns should be saying that all forms of abuse towards staff and passengers on public transport is unacceptable regardless of the motive and a push for tougher sentences. Scum will be scum and they attack anyone for any reason the best way to combat racial attacks is extra Garda resources and tougher penalties. No doubt the scum that carried out this attack in Dundrum will play the violin that they had a tough upbringing and the usual nonsense and end up with the usual suspended sentence.

    Funny, I heard a white middle-aged Irishman on the radio make the exact same argument after coming out of Jordan Peterson's gig in Dublin (him, not me). After the usual guff about 'political correctness' and 'the feminazis', he had a particular bone to pick with hate crime. "Why should it be 'hate crime'? Why isn't it just 'crime'? Crime is crime" he anguished. Funny how the majority seeks to deny even the slightest succour or comfort to the oppressed minority, when they see that the tide might be turning and their previously unassailable position being even slightly threatened. Uppity people of colour, women, even children (vis Thunberg) asking for even a little equality brings out the absolute worst in a certain type of white male, and their co-opted, enabling female counterparts.


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    #2618
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,886 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Do you believe that an attack on a Muslim should be punished any differently to an attack on Christian in Ireland?
    Go back and read the definition again. See if you can work it out.


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    #2619
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Go back and read the definition again. See if you can work it out.

    Yes I've read the definition. It mentions it is a crime motivated by prejudice? Now I'm asking you what should be punished the crime or the motive?


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    #2620
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    "Yes they are motivated by some level of hatred if someone drops litter then they have a level of hatred towards their surroundings, community and enviroment, not paying the tv licence shows a level of hatred towards the governemnt and breaking the speed limit shows a level of hatred towards the safety of other road users."

    I actually guffawed at this. Stupendous piffle.


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    #2621
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Can't say don't know much about alt right sites tbh



    I'm not going to deny that a crime may be motivated by racial prejudice however crime is generally punished due to the actions of the perpatrator not the motives of the perpetrator. Do you believe that an attack on a Muslim should be punished any differently to an attack on Christian in Ireland?



    Yes they are motivated by some level of hatred if someone drops litter then they have a level of hatred towards their surroundings, community and enviroment, not paying the tv licence shows a level of hatred towards the governemnt and breaking the speed limit shows a level of hatred towards the safety of other road users.

    If a Muslim is targeted because they are a Muslim and a Christian is targeted because they are Christian yes I believe they are both hate crimes.

    If a Christian or Muslim is a victim of crime but not specifically targeted because they are Christian or Muslim then no it isnt a hate crime.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2622
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Yes I've read the definition. It mentions it is a crime motivated by prejudice? Now I'm asking you what should be punished the crime or the motive?

    Both. The crime should be punished and if there an added bias motivation then punish them more.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2623
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Both. The crime should be punished and if there an added bias motivation then punish them more.

    It's like that old saying: Creditors have better memories than debtors.

    Think about it


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    #2624
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    davedanon wrote: »
    Funny, I heard a white middle-aged Irishman on the radio make the exact same argument after coming out of Jordan Peterson's gig in Dublin (him, not me). After the usual guff about 'political correctness' and 'the feminazis', he had a particular bone to pick with hate crime. "Why should it be 'hate crime'? Why isn't it just 'crime'? Crime is crime" he anguished. Funny how the majority seeks to deny even the slightest succour or comfort to the oppressed minority, when they see that the tide might be turning and their previously unassailable position being even slightly threatened. Uppity people of colour, women, even children (vis Thunberg) asking for even a little equality brings out the absolute worst in a certain type of white male, and their co-opted, enabling female counterparts.

    I know right. How dare they be uppity and highlight their identity makes more susceptible and vulnerable to bias motivated crime. How dare they point out and highlight racism, xenophobia, transphobia, mysogyny, disablism.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2625
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,886 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Yes I've read the definition. It mentions it is a crime motivated by prejudice? Now I'm asking you what should be punished the crime or the motive?

    I'm not going to play your game, thanks. Go do some proper research. Read a few papers, maybe even a book or two. No one owes you an education.


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    #2626
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Both. The crime should be punished and if there an added bias motivation then punish them more.

    So you are saying that crime should be punished differently depending on the motive for the crime. So put this scenario in front of you an Irish person is attacked by another Irish person for whatever motive but not a racial one. A Muslim person is attacked by an Irish person because that he/she is a Muslim and the attacker dosen't like Muslims.

    For arguments sake both victims receive the same injuries and both are severely traumatised by the incidents the same amount. You believe the perpetrator of the prejuidice motivated attack should be given a more severe sentence then the perpetrator of the non prejudice motivated attack even though both commited the same attack just with a different motive.

    I do not agree with that I believe sentences should be dished out fairly and equally based on the severity of the damage inflicted regardless of motive. People should be punished based on their actions not their thoughts or emotions. Also I want to see more severe punishments for crimes regardless of motive. I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes and would like to see a three strikes policy for the more serious crimes like assault, robbery etc.


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    #2627
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Prove its not then.

    There's no evidence that it was a hate crime. It's up to the one making the accusation to prove it.


  • Options
    #2628
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So you are saying that crime should be punished differently depending on the motive for the crime. So put this scenario in front of you an Irish person is attacked by another Irish person for whatever motive but not a racial one. A Muslim person is attacked by an Irish person because that he/she is a Muslim and the attacker dosen't like Muslims.

    For arguments sake both victims receive the same injuries and both are severely traumatised by the incidents the same amount. You believe the perpetrator of the prejuidice motivated attack should be given a more severe sentence then the perpetrator of the non prejudice motivated attack even though both commited the same attack just with a different motive.

    I do not agree with that I believe sentences should be dished out fairly and equally based on the severity of the damage inflicted regardless of motive. People should be punished based on their actions not their thoughts or emotions. Also I want to see more severe punishments for crimes regardless of motive. I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes and would like to see a three strikes policy for the more serious crimes like assault, robbery etc.

    Yes.

    If a crime has a bias motivation against a minority group or a woman then yes I do believe it should have a harsher sentence yes. I think minority groups and women are more vulnerable to being targeted for crime. They get targeted because of their identity. It's almost like you want to ignore that fact and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2629
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    There's no evidence that it was a hate crime. It's up to the one making the accusation to prove it.

    You made a statement that it's not. That is you making an accusation. Prove its not a hate crime.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2630
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    "and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist."

    Well, that's because when you're a white person pretty much anywhere in the world, that is the case. Now wait for Stephen to argue at length that if he walked through Harlem and got called 'Honky' or 'white bread', that would be the same as 100 years of black slavery.


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    #2631
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    You made a statement that it's not. That is you making an accusation. Prove its not a hate crime.

    You're asking me to prove a false negative. Cop on.


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    #2632
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yes.

    If a crime has a bias motivation against a minority group or a woman then yes I do believe it should have a harsher sentence yes. I think minority groups and women are more vulnerable to being targeted for crime. They get targeted because of their identity. It's almost like you want to ignore that fact and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist.

    Ok but where do you draw the line between a prejudice motivated crime and a non prejudice motivated crime religion, race, skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, height, weight, favourite football team? Is someone getting attacked by football hooligans attached to Shamrock Rovers because they support Bohs a hate crime?

    Look I support a sitaution where justice is handed out fairly and equally to everyone who commits or is victim of a crime simple as. I honestly don't what difference it makes what the motive is or who the victim is. Crime is crime regardless of motive. The deterent would be severe sentences.

    You don't know exactly what the trauma is for a person who is a victim of crime. A member of a minority group who is a victim of a prejudice motivated crime could be a stronger person who is less traumatised than an Irish person who is a victim of a non prejudice motivated crime.


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    #2633
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    You're asking me to prove a false negative. Cop on.

    Fair enough. You can't prove it. No need to get het up about it just dont make such stupid statements again.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2634
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Ok but where do you draw the line between a prejudice motivated crime and a non prejudice motivated crime religion, race, skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, height, weight, favourite football team? Is someone getting attacked by football hooligans attached to Shamrock Rovers because they support Bohs a hate crime?

    Look I support a sitaution where justice is handed out fairly and equally to everyone who commits or is victim of a crime simple as. I honestly don't what difference it makes what the motive is or who the victim is. Crime is crime regardless of motive. The deterent would be severe sentences.

    You don't know exactly what the trauma is for a person who is a victim of crime. A member of a minority group who is a victim of a prejudice motivated crime could be a stronger person who is less traumatised than an Irish person who is a victim of a non prejudice motivated crime.

    Nah. Not doing that whatabout the redheads sh ite.

    It isn't justice that people get specficially targeted by hate attacks because of their identity as a woman or a member of a minority group. Its that simple.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2635
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Fair enough. You can't prove it. No need to get het up about it just dont make such stupid statements again.

    No proof it was a hate crime,the video is inconclusive.


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    #2636
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Nah. Not doing that whatabout the redheads sh ite.

    It isn't justice that people get specficially targeted by hate attacks because of their identity as a woman or a member of a minority group. Its that simple.

    Your talking about identity but people identify with all kinds of different things not just race, sexuality and religion.

    Of course it isn't justice that people are targetted because of their identity but nor is all crime justice. Is it justice that someone is shot dead by the Kinahans of course not just like it is not justice that someone is attacked because of their race.


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    #2637
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    davedanon wrote: »
    "and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist."

    Well, that's because when you're a white person pretty much anywhere in the world, that is the case. Now wait for Stephen to argue at length that if he walked through Harlem and got called 'Honky' or 'white bread', that would be the same as 100 years of black slavery.

    Honestly what kind of nonsense are you coming out with now. Why are comparing someone being called a derogatory name for being white with the slavery of African people in the America obviously the later is more severe and I believe in punishing people based on severity of the crime they commit. Also don't you think that associcating all white people with slavery is just as bad associating all Muslims with Islamic terrorism.


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    #2638
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I can't believe there are people defending this as not a hate crime.

    Remember the day when boards had a nice and clear, "no racism" policy?


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    #2639
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    SoundsRight wrote: »
    Overheal wrote: »
    They grabbed her hijab.
    Allegedly. Even then, we don't know who provoked who, what the circumstances were. Let's leave the Gardai investigate before rushing to conclusions.
    Ok so as soon as its mentioned its travellers, people start saying ‘theyre children’ and people start unlinking them from personal responsibility or doubling down on ‘ its gemmas fault’ which is shameful, so many posters crave it being ‘alt right nazis’ But ‘ who provoked who’ come on , its clear as day that girl was attacked randomly for being muslim, for the hijab, no doubt or shade at all, youre throwing crap about needlessly


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    #2640
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Your talking about identity but people identify with all kinds of different things not just race, sexuality and religion.

    Of course it isn't justice that people are targetted because of their identity but nor is all crime justice. Is it justice that someone is shot dead by the Kinahans of course not just like it is not justice that someone is attacked because of their race.

    Whatabout whataboutery?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2641
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,407 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    tigger123 wrote: »
    You're the one who started the discussion on lineage.

    GemGem fans seem to regularly start tangents and then run away from said tangent.


This discussion has been closed.
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