Stephen15 wrote: » How can they be all different and all equal when the definition is the exact opposite? equal /ˈiːkw(ə)l/ adjective being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value different /ˈdɪf(ə)r(ə)nt/ adjective not the same as another or each other; unlike in nature, form, or quality
Stephen15 wrote: » Why does it matter are you a racist?
Stephen15 wrote: » Well the left regularly go on about equality but then celebrate diversity don't you think it's a tad hypocritical to say we're all equal then celebrate diversity. Why does diversity matter if we're all equal?
Stephen15 wrote: » Can you please tell me what is a "hate crime"?
Stephen15 wrote: » Surely all crime is driven by a degree of hatred.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Is this what constitutes 'debate' or 'analysis' on alt-right sites? It's like something you'd get from a six year old trying to be cranky.
Here's a good starting pointhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_crime
Really? Dropping litter? Not paying TV licence? Breaking the speed limit? Have you thought this through?
Stephen15 wrote: » It's assualt. I honestly don't see why crime should be treated depending on the motive. All crime should be treated the same regardless of the motive. An attack on a white man should be treated the exact same as a racially motivated attack on a black man with the perpetrator getting the same sentence depending on the severity of the crime and damage inflicted on the victim. I am in no way excusing but without proper sentences scum will be scum and will always find an excuse to inflict damage on another person. For example there is a big anti racism campaign on public transport at the moment and stories about non national bus and Luas drivers being racially abused and attacked however I know for a fact that Irish drivers are also regular victims of verbal and physical abuse. In my opinion the campaigns should be saying that all forms of abuse towards staff and passengers on public transport is unacceptable regardless of the motive and a push for tougher sentences. Scum will be scum and they attack anyone for any reason the best way to combat racial attacks is extra Garda resources and tougher penalties. No doubt the scum that carried out this attack in Dundrum will play the violin that they had a tough upbringing and the usual nonsense and end up with the usual suspended sentence.
Stephen15 wrote: » Do you believe that an attack on a Muslim should be punished any differently to an attack on Christian in Ireland?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Go back and read the definition again. See if you can work it out.
Stephen15 wrote: » Can't say don't know much about alt right sites tbh I'm not going to deny that a crime may be motivated by racial prejudice however crime is generally punished due to the actions of the perpatrator not the motives of the perpetrator. Do you believe that an attack on a Muslim should be punished any differently to an attack on Christian in Ireland? Yes they are motivated by some level of hatred if someone drops litter then they have a level of hatred towards their surroundings, community and enviroment, not paying the tv licence shows a level of hatred towards the governemnt and breaking the speed limit shows a level of hatred towards the safety of other road users.
Stephen15 wrote: » Yes I've read the definition. It mentions it is a crime motivated by prejudice? Now I'm asking you what should be punished the crime or the motive?
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Both. The crime should be punished and if there an added bias motivation then punish them more.
davedanon wrote: » Funny, I heard a white middle-aged Irishman on the radio make the exact same argument after coming out of Jordan Peterson's gig in Dublin (him, not me). After the usual guff about 'political correctness' and 'the feminazis', he had a particular bone to pick with hate crime. "Why should it be 'hate crime'? Why isn't it just 'crime'? Crime is crime" he anguished. Funny how the majority seeks to deny even the slightest succour or comfort to the oppressed minority, when they see that the tide might be turning and their previously unassailable position being even slightly threatened. Uppity people of colour, women, even children (vis Thunberg) asking for even a little equality brings out the absolute worst in a certain type of white male, and their co-opted, enabling female counterparts.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Prove its not then.
Stephen15 wrote: » So you are saying that crime should be punished differently depending on the motive for the crime. So put this scenario in front of you an Irish person is attacked by another Irish person for whatever motive but not a racial one. A Muslim person is attacked by an Irish person because that he/she is a Muslim and the attacker dosen't like Muslims. For arguments sake both victims receive the same injuries and both are severely traumatised by the incidents the same amount. You believe the perpetrator of the prejuidice motivated attack should be given a more severe sentence then the perpetrator of the non prejudice motivated attack even though both commited the same attack just with a different motive. I do not agree with that I believe sentences should be dished out fairly and equally based on the severity of the damage inflicted regardless of motive. People should be punished based on their actions not their thoughts or emotions. Also I want to see more severe punishments for crimes regardless of motive. I support the death penalty for the most heinous crimes and would like to see a three strikes policy for the more serious crimes like assault, robbery etc.
SoundsRight wrote: » There's no evidence that it was a hate crime. It's up to the one making the accusation to prove it.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » You made a statement that it's not. That is you making an accusation. Prove its not a hate crime.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Yes. If a crime has a bias motivation against a minority group or a woman then yes I do believe it should have a harsher sentence yes. I think minority groups and women are more vulnerable to being targeted for crime. They get targeted because of their identity. It's almost like you want to ignore that fact and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist.
SoundsRight wrote: » You're asking me to prove a false negative. Cop on.
Stephen15 wrote: » Ok but where do you draw the line between a prejudice motivated crime and a non prejudice motivated crime religion, race, skin colour, hair colour, eye colour, height, weight, favourite football team? Is someone getting attacked by football hooligans attached to Shamrock Rovers because they support Bohs a hate crime? Look I support a sitaution where justice is handed out fairly and equally to everyone who commits or is victim of a crime simple as. I honestly don't what difference it makes what the motive is or who the victim is. Crime is crime regardless of motive. The deterent would be severe sentences. You don't know exactly what the trauma is for a person who is a victim of crime. A member of a minority group who is a victim of a prejudice motivated crime could be a stronger person who is less traumatised than an Irish person who is a victim of a non prejudice motivated crime.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Fair enough. You can't prove it. No need to get het up about it just dont make such stupid statements again.
Joeytheparrot wrote: » Nah. Not doing that whatabout the redheads sh ite. It isn't justice that people get specficially targeted by hate attacks because of their identity as a woman or a member of a minority group. Its that simple.
davedanon wrote: » "and you think that the associated trauma of being targeted because of your identity doesnt exist." Well, that's because when you're a white person pretty much anywhere in the world, that is the case. Now wait for Stephen to argue at length that if he walked through Harlem and got called 'Honky' or 'white bread', that would be the same as 100 years of black slavery.
SoundsRight wrote: » Overheal wrote: » They grabbed her hijab. Allegedly. Even then, we don't know who provoked who, what the circumstances were. Let's leave the Gardai investigate before rushing to conclusions.
Overheal wrote: » They grabbed her hijab.
Stephen15 wrote: » Your talking about identity but people identify with all kinds of different things not just race, sexuality and religion. Of course it isn't justice that people are targetted because of their identity but nor is all crime justice. Is it justice that someone is shot dead by the Kinahans of course not just like it is not justice that someone is attacked because of their race.
tigger123 wrote: » You're the one who started the discussion on lineage.
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