All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

corner back 2 · 20-08-2019 11:57AM

hawley wrote: »

I looked at Shane's twitter account and one of his last tweets is wishing Kilkenny the best of luck in the final. I don't see any tweets where he is whinging.

Off the ball this morning.

Bonniedog · 20-08-2019 12:01PM

It was rather pathetic to see the lower stands half empty for the rain on Sunday, and thousands of people leaving the Hill.

I was there for the Dublin/Kerry final played in absolute torrential downpour and no-one moved.

Obviously a lot of "dry weather" supporters got tickets.

(Apologies, meant to post that in tickets thread.)

corner back 2 · 20-08-2019 12:07PM

bruschi wrote: »

If anything is to come out of the final Sunday and the completely over the top reaction from Cody, former players and a large amount of supporters, is that James Owens will be getting the Barry Kelly treatment from now on and any game he is down to ref them in, this will be brought up endlessly prior, during and after the game. If there is one thing they do well at other than hurling, is holding endless grudges and using something from the past that has no relevance whatsoever but bring it up anyway to muddy the waters.

Surely how a ref treats similar incidents in 2 games a month apart is valid analysis? BTW I have no arguments with the red card. But we have seen worse let go and lesser offences penalised with red so if you cant understand why people are questioning it I dont know why. People are bitterly disappointed after losing a final as I am sure you would be and all supporters will stand up for their own county and they dont need to apologise to anyone for that.

opinionated3 · 20-08-2019 12:10PM

bruschi wrote: »

If anything is to come out of the final Sunday and the completely over the top reaction from Cody, former players and a large amount of supporters, is that James Owens will be getting the Barry Kelly treatment from now on and any game he is down to ref them in, this will be brought up endlessly prior, during and after the game. If there is one thing they do well at other than hurling, is holding endless grudges and using something from the past that has no relevance whatsoever but bring it up anyway to muddy the waters.

Barry Kelly didn't endear himself to any county IMO. Very happy to dish out cards left right and centre. Ruined many a game with his fussy nature.

opinionated3 · 20-08-2019 12:12PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Bookmakers odds for next year's championship.

Tipp. - 7/2
Limerick. - 7/2
Galway. - 5/1
Kilkenny. - 11/2
Cork. - 6/1
Clare. - 12/1
Wexford. - 16/1
Dublin. - 25/1
Waterford.- 25/1
500/1 Bar ..

If I knew Clare were to get Daly back in charge or even Paul kinnerk, I'd be chancing that 12/1

Bonniedog · 20-08-2019 12:22PM

Hard to know whether trying to influence the ref before the game, or whinge about him afterwards is worse.

I've generally found Kilkenny people to be sound over decades of mostly being thrashed! And good losers the few times we got the better of them.

But some of the post match comment on Owens just comes across as bad losing.

Hogan staying on would have made it closer, but Tipp were already getting on top and dominated the individual battles after, rather than depending on free space.

Apart from all that, it was nailed on red card.

As I said to someone, the next time someone hits you in the head with an elbow at 30mph, figure out how much "diving" you might need to do!

bruschi · 20-08-2019 12:26PM

corner back 2 wrote: »

Surely how a ref treats similar incidents in 2 games a month apart is valid analysis? BTW I have no arguments with the red card. But we have seen worse let go and lesser offences penalised with red so if you cant understand why people are questioning it I dont know why. People are bitterly disappointed after losing a final as I am sure you would be and all supporters will stand up for their own county and they dont need to apologise to anyone for that.

What about Eddie Brennan posting videos of Lar Corbett from 11 years ago? Or Eoin Larkin with videos from 4 years ago? Shefflin and Tyrell being the only ones to disagree with all the panellists beside them.

You could talk about the Bill Cooper incident alright. neither player in full possession of the ball and Cooper went in way too hard and dangerous. Hogan got straight up, if he didnt, who knows what would have happened. Barrett had the ball in his hand and Hogan threw out an elbow. Barrett stayed down. For all the talk of wanting to compare incidents that are "the same" they actually arent. Show me an incident where a player has thrown out an elbow at another players head and connected and didnt get sent off. It was a red card. full stop.

There is a difference between standing up for your county and being completely over the top and whinging like there hasnt been seen for years. Cody coming out saying he doesnt blame Hogan because he didnt issue the red card. All he has to say is he doesnt blame Richie and these things happen. But no, Cody has to get his dig in at the referee and once again say that the ref "obviously" wasnt sure because he took his time. Cody doesnt know this. You could easily argue the ref took his time and didnt rush into a huge decision and made the correct call and handled things correctly without a rush of blood to the head.

There are ways to "stand up for your county", although why you feel the need to stand up for your county I dont know, but doing this doesnt necessarily mean that you have to whinge and moan at other decisions in the game or by roasting the referee who by the vast majority of analysis, got his decisions by and large correct.

RMAOK · 20-08-2019 12:27PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Bookmakers odds for next year's championship.

Tipp. - 7/2
Limerick. - 7/2
Galway. - 5/1
Kilkenny. - 11/2
Cork. - 6/1
Clare. - 12/1
Wexford. - 16/1
Dublin. - 25/1
Waterford.- 25/1
500/1 Bar ..

Anyone know what tipp's odds for 2019 were just after limerick win the all-ireland in 2018?

Bonniedog · 20-08-2019 12:33PM

RMAOK wrote: »

Anyone know what tipp's odds for 2019 were just after limerick win the all-ireland in 2018?

Odds were very similar and in same order if you swap Tipp and Galway. Tipp were 5/1 and Galway 7/2.

Dublin at 25/1. Add a zero I'm afraid.

adrian522 · 20-08-2019 12:37PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Hogan staying on would have made it closer, but Tipp were already getting on top and dominated the individual battles after, rather than depending on free space.

This is something that I find it hard to agree with. To say Tipp were already getting on top so therefore would have hammered Kilkenny is any case is just not correct. (I know you didn't say this but it's been said a few times on this thread)

The game was very finally balanced up to that point and Kilkenny had started well, Tipp then got on top but realistically it was setup to be a really close game. Obviously the red card changed all that and Kilkenny didn't deal with that at all well but we will never know how the game would have panned out if it was 15 v 15 for the full game.

Obviously Tipperary can only play the game that's in front of them and are very worthy All-Ireland winners but I think Kilkenny can be very proud of their year.

Unfortunately the low points are the panic at the end of the Leinster final and the complete naivety on how to play with 14 men in the All Ireland final. It really was awful stuff from the Kilkenny management even if they were never likely to win with 14 men they should have been an awful lot closer.

On the red card I can accept that it is a red by the rules of the game but I can also point to similar or worse challenges that went unpunished this season which is what makes it so hard to take.

If that comes across as being a sore loser than so be it, but I'd still acknowledge that Tipperary were the better team and with the wind in the second half would have been favorites in any case but if it was 15 v 15 I wouldn't have been writing off Kilkenny at all.

From a Kilkenny point of view it was a really disappointing day at the office but overall a really good year and also great to see a big turnout at Nowlan park last night for the 2 teams, its well deserved.

RMAOK · 20-08-2019 12:38PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

Odds were very similar and in same order if you swap Tipp and Galway. Tipp were 5/1 and Galway 7/2.

Hopefully that's a good omen for Galway next year. :pac:

letsseehere14 · 20-08-2019 01:46PM

Reading this and the KK forum since Sunday has been great entertainment. I have to believe half the posters are taking the mick because otherwise I weep for some of the opinions I read. Some have said the red card and ref have taken away from Tipperarys win and itll come with an * beside it in the history books, it wont. If anything the past few days have soured many peopless admiration for many of the great KK players of the last 20 years. Shefflin, Tyrrell, Brennan, Larkin all making fools of themselves on RTE and twitter. Tyrrell the worst surrounded by his peers and every other analyst saying it like it is, him with two fingers in his ears. Kilkenny are not used to losing matches like this. And this generation are only used to them winning, usually winning well. Breath it in, this is where Kilkenny are now. Back in the pack with the rest of us. It was a certain red. Clear intent there. Barretts and Fordes warranted yellows. Reds in their cases would have been a joke. Overall the ref had a really good match.
Tipp had started to turn the tide and even in the first 20 were trying to use the ball in a more intelligent way the KK. They were always going to win that game. KK had too many passengers, even Hogan had he stayed on would have been brought aside after 45 mins. Mullen was not fit, and a few others along side him. Fennelly was curtailed and Walter Walsh looked limited. They would not have lived with Tipp in the second half, against the wind even 15 v 15. Best team won and well done to Tipp.
I wouldnt take the score too harshly either. Its something Tipp have done to teams all the time. Sunday was KKs turn. They have but big point wins over practically everyone in recent history.
Waterford 2016 by 21, 2019 by 18
Clare 2019 by 13
Cork 2014 by 10, 2016 by 9
Limerick 2015 by 16
Galway 2014 by 9
Dublin 2017 by 22
Wexford 2010 by 14
and now KK by 14
Its something they do, but they dont usually keep those kind of performances up. The group is all close now, Limerick, Tipp, Galway, Cork, Kilkenny at the front I think (assuming Galway get their act together and Cork make gains with the younger players coming through), Wexford, Clare, Waterford closing in. But it is kind of disheartening that we still cant break the big 3s hold.
This decade we had Clare, Galway and ourselves win All Irelands, but still 50% of Leinster titles went to KK, 70% of Munsters went to Tipp and Cork and 70% of All Ireland went to two of the big 3. Kilkennys dominance in Leinster might be on the wane for the next few years, but Munster remains a Cork/Tipp battle ground. Clare have none since 1998, Waterford since 2010. They won 7 of 10 Munster from 00 to 09 and 7 of 10 from 2010 to 2019. Tipp and Cork have also won 7 of the last 10 All Irelands won by Munster Teams. Since the Golden age 1994-1998, ended with Offaly, 21 years ago, only Clare 2013, Galway 2017, Limerick 2018 have managed All Irelands, 3 in 21 years. In the same period before the golden age, Offaly, Galway, Limerick managed to win 6. Arguably things have gotten worse. Breaking that tradition is still proving hard for the rest of us.

Dyr · 20-08-2019 02:08PM

Gas to see Cody whinging about a nailed on red card, I suppose he misses the era when refs would ask his permission to give JJ a yellow for nearly taking a forwards head off his shoulders.

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2019 02:27PM

Bonniedog wrote: »

It was rather pathetic to see the lower stands half empty for the rain on Sunday, and thousands of people leaving the Hill.

I was there for the Dublin/Kerry final played in absolute torrential downpour and no-one moved.

Obviously a lot of "dry weather" supporters got tickets.

(Apologies, meant to post that in tickets thread.)

Think that's a bit unfair.

I remember the rain very clearly that day - and the shower on Sunday was much heavier, it was just about the heaviest rain you'll get in Ireland, the type that causes flash floods.

The day of the Dublin Kerry game - the rain lasted longer, but it wasn't nearly as heavy.

Since you are on the subject - the Dublin Cork womens final was on that same year - and if I recall rightly the Dublin fans had no problem on that occasion moving to the back of the stand when a shower hit...Were they dry weather supporters?

Tombo2001 · 20-08-2019 02:50PM

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Reading this and the KK forum since Sunday has been great entertainment. I have to believe half the posters are taking the mick because otherwise I weep for some of the opinions I read. Some have said the red card and ref have taken away from Tipperarys win and itll come with an * beside it in the history books, it wont. If anything the past few days have soured many peopless admiration for many of the great KK players of the last 20 years. Shefflin, Tyrrell, Brennan, Larkin all making fools of themselves on RTE and twitter. Tyrrell the worst surrounded by his peers and every other analyst saying it like it is, him with two fingers in his ears. Kilkenny are not used to losing matches like this. And this generation are only used to them winning, usually winning well. Breath it in, this is where Kilkenny are now. Back in the pack with the rest of us. It was a certain red. Clear intent there. Barretts and Fordes warranted yellows. Reds in their cases would have been a joke. Overall the ref had a really good match.
Tipp had started to turn the tide and even in the first 20 were trying to use the ball in a more intelligent way the KK. They were always going to win that game. KK had too many passengers, even Hogan had he stayed on would have been brought aside after 45 mins. Mullen was not fit, and a few others along side him. Fennelly was curtailed and Walter Walsh looked limited. They would not have lived with Tipp in the second half, against the wind even 15 v 15. Best team won and well done to Tipp.
I wouldnt take the score too harshly either. Its something Tipp have done to teams all the time. Sunday was KKs turn. They have but big point wins over practically everyone in recent history.
Waterford 2016 by 21, 2019 by 18
Clare 2019 by 13
Cork 2014 by 10, 2016 by 9
Limerick 2015 by 16
Galway 2014 by 9
Dublin 2017 by 22
Wexford 2010 by 14
and now KK by 14
Its something they do, but they dont usually keep those kind of performances up. The group is all close now, Limerick, Tipp, Galway, Cork, Kilkenny at the front I think (assuming Galway get their act together and Cork make gains with the younger players coming through), Wexford, Clare, Waterford closing in. But it is kind of disheartening that we still cant break the big 3s hold.
This decade we had Clare, Galway and ourselves win All Irelands, but still 50% of Leinster titles went to KK, 70% of Munsters went to Tipp and Cork and 70% of All Ireland went to two of the big 3. Kilkennys dominance in Leinster might be on the wane for the next few years, but Munster remains a Cork/Tipp battle ground. Clare have none since 1998, Waterford since 2010. They won 7 of 10 Munster from 00 to 09 and 7 of 10 from 2010 to 2019. Tipp and Cork have also won 7 of the last 10 All Irelands won by Munster Teams. Since the Golden age 1994-1998, ended with Offaly, 21 years ago, only Clare 2013, Galway 2017, Limerick 2018 have managed All Irelands, 3 in 21 years. In the same period before the golden age, Offaly, Galway, Limerick managed to win 6. Arguably things have gotten worse. Breaking that tradition is still proving hard for the rest of us.

The winner is the winner.

However when decisions are made that potentially change the outcome - then people will remember that.

The sideline cut that Limerick took in the last minute of the semi-final would be similar. Letter of the law - that should have been a 65; and you know and I know that Limerick would have had a fair strong chance in a replay, and fair chance of beating Tipp if they met them in a final.

Dyr · 20-08-2019 02:52PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Since you are on the subject - the Dublin Cork womens final was on that same year - and if I recall rightly the Dublin fans had no problem on that occasion moving to the back of the stand when a shower hit...Were they dry weather supporters?

They were a bunch of women

Bonniedog · 20-08-2019 02:59PM

The rain at the Dublin Kerry game was worse than last Sunday and lasted for the whole day.

Anyone who gets a ticket for a final and heads for the bar should never get another one.

Mantis Toboggan · 20-08-2019 03:06PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The winner is the winner.

However when decisions are made that potentially change the outcome - then people will remember that.

People will remember Richie Hogan trying to break Barrett's jaw with an elbow and getting sent off for it. They'll also remember kilkenny players giving up with 30 minutes left and loosing by 14 points.

Pity that Hogan's cowardly act will be remembered more than the 3.25 that tipp scored.

Lefty Bicek · 20-08-2019 03:19PM

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

People will remember Richie Hogan trying to break Barrett's jaw with an elbow and getting sent off for it. They'll also remember kilkenny players giving up with 30 minutes left and loosing by 14 points.

Pity that Hogan's cowardly act will be remembered more than the 3.25 that tipp scored.

Thank you for ensuring that, in spite of all that has been said here, it was not one of our lads who contributed the most moronic, spiteful, nugatory pile of dung to the thread.

Thanks, really. Thanks.

SAMTALK · 20-08-2019 03:32PM

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Shefflin, Tyrrell, Brennan, Larkin all making fools of themselves on RTE and twitter. Tyrrell the worst surrounded by his peers and every other analyst saying it like it is, him with two fingers in his ears. Kilkenny are not used to losing matches like this. And this generation are only used to them winning, usually winning well. Breath it in, this is where Kilkenny are now. Back in the pack with the rest of us. It was a certain red. Clear intent there. Barretts and Fordes warranted yellows. Reds in their cases would have been a joke.Tipp had started to turn the tide and even in the first 20 were trying to use the b Overall the ref had a really good match.
.

This sums it up for me.
Used to having it their own way. For years they dominated and got away with a lot of dodgy fouls.
I will say they are a team that have to be admired for all they achieved through the years but that does not mean it will continue forever.

In my opinion they were lucky to make it to the final and to blame the ref is beyond ridiculous .
It was a blatant red and quite obvious that Hogan was out to do Barrett ( Barretts acting is another thing altogether!)

KK cannot say that they would have won that game if Hogan stayed on pitch. This was not the only problem they had on Sunday

adrian522 · 20-08-2019 03:39PM

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

People will remember Richie Hogan trying to break Barrett's jaw with an elbow and getting sent off for it. They'll also remember kilkenny players giving up with 30 minutes left and loosing by 14 points.

Pity that Hogan's cowardly act will be remembered more than the 3.25 that tipp scored.

Wow.

letsseehere14 · 20-08-2019 03:48PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The winner is the winner.

However when decisions are made that potentially change the outcome - then people will remember that.

The sideline cut that Limerick took in the last minute of the semi-final would be similar. Letter of the law - that should have been a 65; and you know and I know that Limerick would have had a fair strong chance in a replay, and fair chance of beating Tipp if they met them in a final.

I actually dont hold the missed 65 as the defining factor in that game. What lost us that game was 16 wides, many poor from shot selection and many not under much pressure. Bad wides have been a hallmark of Limerick for years now. Even last years All Ireland final we shot something like 20 wides. If we improve there more consistently we become a very hard team to beat. But we also need to adapt as teams now know how to get at us and stop us.

the_pen_turner · 20-08-2019 03:50PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Thank you for ensuring that, in spite of all that has been said here, it was not one of our lads who contributed the most moronic, spiteful, nugatory pile of dung to the thread.

Thanks, really. Thanks.

what s wrong with that post. if factually correct . this match and all ireland will be remembered because of what ritchy hogan did not for the great hurling that tipp did to win.

adrian522 · 20-08-2019 03:55PM

The GAA forum has really gone to sh!t if that's the standards of posting that we are reduced to.

Talk of trying to break Barrett's jaw is just utterly ridiculous and contemptible.

the kelt · 20-08-2019 03:59PM

adrian522 wrote: »

The GAA forum has really gone to sh!t if that's the standards of posting that we are reduced to.

Talk of trying to break Barrett's jaw is just utterly ridiculous and contemptible.

Well to be honest if you saw the rubbish thats been spouted about on other threads on the GAA forum its hardly surprising!!

the_pen_turner · 20-08-2019 04:07PM

adrian522 wrote: »

The GAA forum has really gone to sh!t if that's the standards of posting that we are reduced to.

Talk of trying to break Barrett's jaw is just utterly ridiculous and contemptible.

break his jaw is a big extream but there is clear intent to hurt barrett

Lefty Bicek · 20-08-2019 04:13PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

what s wrong with that post. if factually correct . this match and all ireland will be remembered because of what ritchy hogan did not for the great hurling that tipp did to win.

Factually correct, you say ?

You'll have evidence for this statement, then...

People will remember Richie Hogan trying to break Barrett's jaw

Quite a serious allegation to make on a public platform. Disgusting, actually.

the_pen_turner · 20-08-2019 04:18PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Factually correct, you say ?

You'll have evidence for this statement, then...

Quite a serious allegation to make on a public platform. Disgusting, actually.

it was broadcast live on tv with 80k people watching it. plenty of people saw it live and seen the replays of it later.

im not saying he tried to break his jaw but there is definite intent to hurt. its as plain as day .

Lefty Bicek · 20-08-2019 04:21PM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

it was broadcast live on tv with 80k people watching it. plenty of people saw it live and seen the replays of it later.

im not saying he tried to break his jaw but there is definite intent to hurt. its as plain as day .

Another poster said it, and you rushed in to describe that post as factually correct.

That is the truth. Agree ?

Keano · 20-08-2019 04:40PM

Handbury got sent for this tackle against Kilkenny this year? Do I have this right?

All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

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