All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:23AM

bruschi wrote: »

of all the posts so far, I think I couldnt disagree with this one more. In every aspect.

The ref took his time. He didnt rush what was to be a critical incident. He spoke with the linesman. He made sure that there was actual contact with Barrett. He spoke with Hogan to ensure he knew exactly why he was getting a red card. He did everything right in the moment. he didnt rush in, he made a careful considered, and absolutely 100% correct decision.

"not that kind of player" I love that cliche. Always to excuse a bad tackle. Hogan was sold a dummy, and threw out an elbow to make connection with a players head.

A Tipp man free in the corner backs meant they had space in the full forward line? It is not lazy analysis to say Kilkennys tactics were abysmal when down to 14. You dont continuously keep hitting high balls down to their spare man when you are a man down. Thats not lazy analysis, it is calling as it is and that Kilkenny and Cody played an awful game after half time when they had a chance to reorganise and sort themselves out. Many teams have done it with 14 and played well. Kilkenny gave a template of how not to do it.

Tipperary had weathered the storm and despite all Kilkennys huffing and puffing, they didnt get much over on them despite having their best period and Tipperarys worst. I've no doubt Tipp would have won handy anyway, but no one will really know.

what made kilkenny so great for so long was depth of players they had. they always had another gear to go into and the ability to change to suit the game. if 2 or 3 players had an off day or were marked out of it ,there was always a few on the bench that could change the match.

they didnt have that yesterday . no plan b . they were bet after 20 minutes. they scored very little from play in the first half . if tipp were more disiplined tj reid wouldnt have scored as many

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:25AM

bruschi wrote: »

of all the posts so far, I think I couldnt disagree with this one more. In every aspect.

The ref took his time. He didnt rush what was to be a critical incident. He spoke with the linesman. He made sure that there was actual contact with Barrett. He spoke with Hogan to ensure he knew exactly why he was getting a red card. He did everything right in the moment. he didnt rush in, he made a careful considered, and absolutely 100% correct decision.

"not that kind of player" I love that cliche. Always to excuse a bad tackle. Hogan was sold a dummy, and threw out an elbow to make connection with a players head.

A Tipp man free in the corner backs meant they had space in the full forward line? It is not lazy analysis to say Kilkennys tactics were abysmal when down to 14. You dont continuously keep hitting high balls down to their spare man when you are a man down. Thats not lazy analysis, it is calling as it is and that Kilkenny and Cody played an awful game after half time when they had a chance to reorganise and sort themselves out. Many teams have done it with 14 and played well. Kilkenny gave a template of how not to do it.

Tipperary had weathered the storm and despite all Kilkennys huffing and puffing, they didnt get much over on them despite having their best period and Tipperarys worst. I've no doubt Tipp would have won handy anyway, but no one will really know.

If the ref has to speak to the injured player to know whether contact was made or not as you have suggested (I personally think the linesman saw it) then it is an questionable decision.

The defence of Richie is not that kind of player comes back to those suggestions that he would go out and try to do a player because he got fouled earlier. Yes it was a bad tackle and that it’s mainly due to the agility of Barrett not the intent of Richie.

It is lazy analysis to not understand the influence of a free man on Kilkennys game plan. Their game plan was working extremely well for the first 20 minutes when they went 8 points to 3 up. Yes Tipp had their purple patch after that but Kilkenny were still well in the game with a number of the Tipp forwards struggling with the close attention from the Kilkenny backs. The free man allowed Tipp to run the ball out of defence and play good quality ball into the forwards.

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:26AM

the_pen_turner wrote: »

it was a blatant attack on barret . its very obviously done to get back at him. its not like he slid into him. hogan put is arm out to make contact with barrett.

After Barrett took a step back

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:28AM

Last Stop wrote: »

After Barrett took a step back

exactly. barrett stepped back so hogan put his arm out to make contact

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 11:34AM

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

robbiezero · 19-08-2019 11:38AM

Last Stop wrote: »

The manner of the win yesterday and the fact that there are still questions about some of their key players suggests that a lot of Tipp fans won’t be celebrating or boasting as much as previous years. I’m not denying them the All Ireland they have been outstanding throughout the championship but there will be a be a lingering feeling hanging over this one. I get the feeling that Tipp would have loved a one point win over Kilkenny to prove they have the bottle etc. Yesterday when it was still close, a lot of their star players were way off the pace and only came into when the game opened up. Not taking away from the year they had but I expect (and so far I have been correct) that celebrations will be subdued.

Absolute rubbish, almost every word of it. Tipp had stormed back into the game before the red card.
Their big players have stood up all year, Callanan, Noel Mc, The Mahers etc. No questions whatsoever about them, we will be celebrating as much as any of the other wins.

C__MC · 19-08-2019 11:39AM

Last Stop wrote: »

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

That was 2008
A long time ago
Refs are clamping down on the high tackles in more recent times
It's the consistency I have an issue with

the_pen_turner · 19-08-2019 11:40AM

Last Stop wrote: »

https://youtu.be/tfvChBew_h0

So here is an incident with Lar Corbett that was only given a yellow. To me this incident is far worse as it is a shoulder to the head at high speed.
You’ll also note that the referee gave the yellow before checking the injured player.

I’m not saying that this was the right call but I would like to see people compare it to the one yesterday.

that poor security guy . he got polaxed

firstly that was before this new rule.

i think those kinds of takles should be a red. that should have been a red.

bruschi · 19-08-2019 11:47AM

Last Stop wrote: »

If the ref has to speak to the injured player to know whether contact was made or not as you have suggested (I personally think the linesman saw it) then it is an questionable decision.

The defence of Richie is not that kind of player comes back to those suggestions that he would go out and try to do a player because he got fouled earlier. Yes it was a bad tackle and that it’s mainly due to the agility of Barrett not the intent of Richie.

It is lazy analysis to not understand the influence of a free man on Kilkennys game plan. Their game plan was working extremely well for the first 20 minutes when they went 8 points to 3 up. Yes Tipp had their purple patch after that but Kilkenny were still well in the game with a number of the Tipp forwards struggling with the close attention from the Kilkenny backs. The free man allowed Tipp to run the ball out of defence and play good quality ball into the forwards.

It is lazy analysis to think that when you go a man down that it is still considered acceptable to keep playing the same tactics. I'm not talking about Kilkennys defending or Tipps attacking, but the most obvious "lazy analysis" from yesterday was Kilkenny attacking and kept on driving ball after ball on top off the Tipp defence who had a man extra.

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 11:50AM

bruschi wrote: »

It is lazy analysis to think that when you go a man down that it is still considered acceptable to keep playing the same tactics. I'm not talking about Kilkennys defending or Tipps attacking, but the most obvious "lazy analysis" from yesterday was Kilkenny attacking and kept on driving ball after ball on top off the Tipp defence who had a man extra.

Yeah I knew the game was up when KK kept sending those balls in to outnumbered forwards. Crazy stuff, you'd have words with the U-14 manager if he was doing it.

SAMTALK · 19-08-2019 12:02PM

Maher totally overacted in Laois game when Dunphy struck him with hurl the same as Barratt did yesterday, but I actually thought Hogans was far worse than Dunphy's ' in the sense that it was probably more dangerous.

The 2 were red cards offences by the rules so KK cannot complain about it. Hogan raised his arm up to connnect so he cannot have an complaints today .

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 12:03PM

Jaysus lads, don't be getting Tipp's backs up by telling them it was a soft/unfair All Ireland.
We want the Tipp lads celebrating hard and supping free pints until April. They are an impressive
team in full flow but we dont want them doing back-to-back wins!

Dyr · 19-08-2019 12:07PM

Last Stop wrote: »

After Barrett took a step back

He took a step back? The dirty tinker

Why are people even debating this, some level of delusion.

lawred2 · 19-08-2019 12:08PM

Bambi wrote: »

He took a step back? The dirty tinker

Why are people even debating this, some level of delusion.

proper man would have stood there to take the shoulder square in the chest..

or something

xl500 · 19-08-2019 12:13PM

Look at John McGrath's sending off in the Semi-Final a definite red but not nearly as dangerous as Hogans

After John McGrath's sending off Tipp just got on with it they certainly weren't griping all day long about the harsh call etc etc they just went on with 14 men and beat Wexford and that Wexford Team had beaten Kilkenny so there you go

corner back 2 · 19-08-2019 12:24PM

xl500 wrote: »

Look at John McGrath's sending off in the Semi-Final a definite red but not nearly as dangerous as Hogans

A definite red which he only got a 2nd yellow for!!

STIG83 · 19-08-2019 12:47PM

Wasn’t a great match yesterday but if the red card wasn’t given I don’t think it would have changed the score that much, Tipp would still win.

All the hype of KK getting to the final doesn’t matter now.
When they beat Cork in the QF, half that Cork team disappeared that day.
Limerick In the SF as bad as a start they got but they eventually got into it, remember they were 9 behind at one stage, and KK lost that lead and only won by a point.
Limerick’s wides cost them that day too imo.
I was reading somewhere for the KK homecoming later, they are having big screens replaying the match, I dont think Richie Hogan wants to watch himself get that red card.

xl500 · 19-08-2019 01:00PM

corner back 2 wrote: »

xl500 wrote: »

Look at John McGrath's sending off in the Semi-Final a definite red but not nearly as dangerous as Hogans

A definite red which he only got a 2nd yellow for!!

Correct what i meant was a definite sending off offence of course I forgot how careful one has to be with wording the point was he was sent off and no gripes about it and Tipp went on to with 14 men to beat Wexford who had beaten Kilkenny

corner back 2 · 19-08-2019 01:20PM

xl500 wrote: »

corner back 2 wrote: »

Correct what i meant was a definite sending off offence of course I forgot how careful one has to be with wording the point was he was sent off and no gripes about it and Tipp went on to with 14 men to beat Wexford who had beaten Kilkenny

Was just checking if you were the only one allowed to debate the merits of a red card.

lufties · 19-08-2019 01:46PM

beggars_bush wrote: »

I very much doubt Brexit or the lack of affordable housing was on their mind after beating Kilkenny and about to celebrate

Well, personally I know many who cant stand varadkar. Seeing his gormless face after such a win would make me look the other way. Just a natural reaction when you see someone you have no respect for.

terryrogers · 19-08-2019 01:58PM

xl500 wrote: »

Look at John McGrath's sending off in the Semi-Final a definite red but not nearly as dangerous as Hogans

After John McGrath's sending off Tipp just got on with it they certainly weren't griping all day long about the harsh call etc etc they just went on with 14 men and beat Wexford and that Wexford Team had beaten Kilkenny so there you go

You've accidentally hit the nail on the head here. Both Hogans and McGraths tackles were technically red cards but the referee applied common sense to McGraths one only and gave him a yellow, thus freeing him up for the final.

The funniest part is the so called experts on Sunday game were saying Hogan had to go no question it was a red card offense, whereas 3 weeks ago they were saying that although McGraths was technically a red card offense the ref made the right call giving a yellow as it would've been too harsh to deny him playing the final. Where's the consistency?

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 02:13PM

I am really looking forward to next year!!

Limerick, KK, Cork, Wexford & Galway are hurting and will want to make amends. Should be fun!

Mantis Toboggan · 19-08-2019 02:35PM

Mokuba wrote: »

What a load of tripe.

A hollow victory.. I can assure you there is not a person in Tipperary who views this as a hollow victory. The only thing that would have made it any better is beating them by more.

We were down to 14 in the semi and 5 points down against a Wexford team that beat Kilkenny in a leinster final and we won. Last year we were a man down and 11 points down against Waterford and drew. It's not the end of the world. V Limerick in 2016 when we played almost the whole game with 14 and won?

We go down to 14 and we get on with it and get a result. Kilkenny go down to 14 and it kills the game? Rubbish. They capitulated after a deserved red card. I don't know how it's even a debate. It's a red card.

And I can also assure you that absolutely nobody in Tipperary cares about these perceived questions. We beat every team in Munster, the Joe McDonagh cup winners and both Leinster finalists. Fully deserving champions and it will be thoroughly celebrated and enjoyed.

Well said sir, turns out the cats are the sourest of them all!

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 02:46PM

terryrogers wrote: »

You've accidentally hit the nail on the head here. Both Hogans and McGraths tackles were technically red cards but the referee applied common sense to McGraths one only and gave him a yellow, thus freeing him up for the final. The funniest part is the so called experts on Sunday game were saying Hogan had to go no question it was a red card offense, whereas 3 weeks ago they were saying that although McGraths was technically a red card offense the ref made the right call giving a yellow as it would've been too harsh to deny him playing the final. Where's the consistency?

Because All Ireland’s are different. Austin Gleeson got away with pulling the helmet off a guy meaning he could play in the All Ireland. Had John McGrath not got the first yellow then it would be a different story.

Snow Garden · 19-08-2019 02:55PM

Mokuba wrote: »

What a load of tripe.

A hollow victory.. I can assure you there is not a person in Tipperary who views this as a hollow victory. The only thing that would have made it any better is beating them by more.

We were down to 14 in the semi and 5 points down against a Wexford team that beat Kilkenny in a leinster final and we won. Last year we were a man down and 11 points down against Waterford and drew. It's not the end of the world. V Limerick in 2016 when we played almost the whole game with 14 and won?

We go down to 14 and we get on with it and get a result. Kilkenny go down to 14 and it kills the game? Rubbish. They capitulated after a deserved red card. I don't know how it's even a debate. It's a red card.

And I can also assure you that absolutely nobody in Tipperary cares about these perceived questions. We beat every team in Munster, the Joe McDonagh cup winners and both Leinster finalists. Fully deserving champions and it will be thoroughly celebrated and enjoyed.

Eh, I know you beat Limerick in the round-robin but you lost the Munster final by 12 points...

Joe_ Public · 19-08-2019 02:57PM

The implication, by several posters, that the referee approaches the grounded Barrett to elicit his opinion on whether he'd been struck in the face might not be the biggest load of horlicks i've seen posted over the past 24 or so hours, but it's not far off. The first duty of the officials is to player welfare and any referee, seeing a player stricken on the ground, regardless of how it might have occurred, will first seek to establish whether urgent medical attention is required before taking further action. The idea that Owens actually required Barrett's input to decide Hogan's fate? Words honestly fail me, but that's where we are with this thread i dare say.

mountgomery burns · 19-08-2019 03:10PM

Snow Garden wrote: »

Eh, I know you beat Limerick in the round-robin but you lost the Munster final by 12 points...

What he said was correct, they bet them all. And only lost once, Limerick lost 3 times. Can't argue with that over the course of a season.

Last Stop · 19-08-2019 03:12PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The implication, by several posters, that the referee approaches the grounded Barrett to elicit his opinion on whether he'd been struck in the face might not be the biggest load of horlicks i've seen posted over the past 24 or so hours, but it's not far off. The first duty of the officials is to player welfare and any referee, seeing a player stricken on the ground, regardless of how it might have occurred, will first seek to establish whether urgent medical attention is required before taking further action. The idea that Owens actually required Barrett's input to decide Hogan's fate? Words honestly fail me, but that's where we are with this thread i dare say.

Why would he not let the medical staff deal with the player? He didn’t approach the player directly after the incident as you are implying. He consulted with his linesman first, then went over and checked on Barrett as he was receiving treatment and only then spoke to Richie. Regardless of how serious the injury was, what was he going to do about it by checking with the player surrounded by physios? Unless he’s a doctor he should stay away until he’s dealt with the incident at hand.
Seeing how serious the injury is no doubt has an influence on the decision and it really shouldn’t have. If it’s a red card incident, it’s a red card incident regardless of whether the player gets injured or not. Did Kirwin check with Tommy Walsh in 09? No!

While it is very difficult to argue with the final decision, the theatrics of Barrett and the way the referee dealt with the incident leave a lot to be desired. He should have had a quick chat with his linesman, called Richie over and sent him off. Instead he chatted to his linesman, chatted to Barrett, chatted to Richie and then sent him off. Feck it I’m surprised he didn’t consult with me while he was at it!

Seadin · 19-08-2019 03:28PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Ffs...

It was clear as daylight if you cared to take off the black and amber googles.

ArielAtom · 19-08-2019 03:29PM

It was a red card, end of. He led with the elbow, he connected = Red Card.

All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

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