Irish Youtuber - cold shower punishment for 2 yr old

Monkey2019 · 19-08-2019 11:36AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I dont have any.

What would YOU have done if your daughter repeatedly took her nappy off and smeared poop? There is nothing else wrong with her?

How would make her know its not ok and correct her?

Oh so you aren't an expert? Funny that.
You speak like you are either a child psychologist or a parent when you are neither.

Look if a child did it once or twice fair enough but if it's an ongoing thing well then there is an underlying issue there.

It's not just boldness and no amount of "punishment" is going to fix something if there is an issue there.

If my child was repeatedly doing something that wasn't "normal" I would be consulting a doctor not just saying they are bold. It genuinely may be something the child cant help.

If you ever have kids of your own I hope that you might see things in a different way.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 11:36AM

Sittingpretty wrote: »

This admission by this family doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

Do you follow them? You sound like you have other things to say?

Have i been fooled?

Mam of 4 · 19-08-2019 11:38AM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Am not getting into this to and fro with you but I have a few questions.

How can you state as fact , that the child in question "has no sensory issues" ?
How do you know that ?
Do you think all sensory issues are diagnosed before the age of two ?

Could I have an answer to the above please ?

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 11:40AM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Could I have an answer to the above please ?

From the mother.

Mam of 4 · 19-08-2019 11:47AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

From the mother.

Ah ok , this is the same mother who thinks it's acceptable to shower the child in cold water and put it out there for the world to view if they choose to do so ?
Enough said .

Sittingpretty · 19-08-2019 11:49AM

Furthermore I would have thought more of them had they put their hands up and admitted it was a lousy parenting decision instead of backtracking and blaming everyone else for their shortcomings.

Also if they really stood over their decision. To use this as punishment why edit their video to remove the clip of them discussing it? They know it was wrong and they are frantically backpedaling and trying to damage control the impact this has had online.

There are three reasons they shared this:

1) To create drama and channel traffic to their YouTube
2) Because they’re such insular shut ins and never leave the house they have no yard stick against which to measure their parenting choices against and thought that other parents do this too so it’s no harm to mention it.
3) They are so ineffective at parenting they genuinely think this is suitable punishment for a 2 year old and They’re too stupid to realise the backlash this would have and has caused.

Edited to add a 4th reason:

4). They actually approached it with a “poor us” angle and expected an influx of sympathetic comments.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 11:53AM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Ah ok , this is the same mother who thinks it's acceptable to shower the child in cold water and put it out there for the world to view if they choose to do so ?
Enough said .

Here is the video

You can judge for yourself. Tell me what you think actually.

She seems like a kind lady to me to do anything too mean. Maybe I am fooled.

SusieBlue · 19-08-2019 11:54AM

Monkey2019 wrote: »

Oh so you aren't an expert? Funny that.
You speak like you are either a child psychologist or a parent when you are neither.

Look if a child did it once or twice fair enough but if it's an ongoing thing well then there is an underlying issue there.

It's not just boldness and no amount of "punishment" is going to fix something if there is an issue there.

If my child was repeatedly doing something that wasn't "normal" I would be consulting a doctor not just saying they are bold. It genuinely may be something the child cant help.

If you ever have kids of your own I hope that you might see things in a different way.

Exactly.
This isn't a case of little Johnny being curious and tasting the dirt while playing in the garden, as a one off.
All kids do weird little things like that but they are predominately one off scenarios and not regular occurrances.

This is a 2yr old who isn't fully able to communicate yet, waking up in the middle of the night, every night, and smearing and ingesting her own excrement before waking her parents to bring what she has done to their attention.
It doesn't take a parent or an expert to know that it isn't normal and it isn't a case of "boldness".
The child clearly has issues and ignoring them or punishing them with cold showers is going to be of no help.

Its worrying that anyone would try to argue that this is a conventional way for a toddler to behave. I can only assume anyone who would, has absolutely no experience with small children whatsoever.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:01PM

Sittingpretty wrote: »

1) To create drama and channel traffic to their YouTube

How long have they been going?

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:03PM

OSI wrote: »

She can't even stick to the one accent.

ha either can i!

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:05PM

Guys I don't mean to cause a fight.

But I found this in The Irish Times.

At night, my son smears poo on himself and his bed
I get upset but he does not seem to care. It has been going on for five weeks

For example, if when he smears he gets a warm bubble bath and lots of lovely attention from you, then he is getting rewarded by the cleaning. Some parents recommend giving their children a cold shower after the smearing so the cleaning is uncomfortable for the child.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/at-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fparenting%2Fat-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237

Do you think that is where she got the advice??

Mam of 4 · 19-08-2019 12:06PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Here is the video

She seems like a kind lady to me to do anything too mean. Maybe I am fooled.

Ah seriously ?
She seems too nice to do anything mean ?
(Btw , Ted Bundy was charming and charismatic by all accounts apparently!)

I'm out of this tbh , and whether the child has sensory issues or not , the cold showers as punishment are not acceptable . Imo .

meeeeh · 19-08-2019 12:07PM

Didn't bother reading this thread but it must be ultimate combo of annoying people: influencers and experts on perfect parenting.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:08PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Guys I don't mean to cause a fight.

But I found this in The Irish Times.

At night, my son smears poo on himself and his bed
I get upset but he does not seem to care. It has been going on for five weeks

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/at-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fparenting%2Fat-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237

Do you think that is where she got the advice??

What do people think of the Irish times giving the advice out the same?

It was given by . Dr John Sharry co-founder of the Parents Plus Charity

His PHD is in psychology. Adjunct Professor @UCDPsychology

Maybe his big name convinced her to do this advice. He said to do it.

Lackadaisical · 19-08-2019 12:15PM

Sittingpretty wrote: »

Trust me, as a parent of small children, it is VERY easy to get into conflict with them. They will test your very last nerve and drive you to the very verge of your sanity. However it is all about how you react to that. Putting them
In a cold shower is a failure as a parent. Walking away, taking a deep breath and dealing with it rationally, kindly and with the understanding that they are learning and don’t understand how life works yet is proper parenting.

This admission by this family doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.

You can but you also have to remain the adult, step back from it and reason your way out of it.

Maybe I have extremely chilled out family but I’ve never ever experienced a situation where someone got aggressive with anyone.

For example: my niece is *very* loud, all singing, all dancing, full on, hurtling around the place and is going through a phase of combining camogie with martial arts, but she’s just beyond being a toddler and that’s kinda just part of the chaos of life. You can still sit down with her and explain why something’s dangerous or why it’s a bad idea and she really thinks about it and takes it on board. She’s just really sensible, empathetic and thinks about things pretty profoundly, but I think a huge amount of that is how she’s been brought up.

I’ve heard horror stories from peers in their 20s and 30s about being hit with fists and weapons, locked in bathrooms, locked outside in the yard, denied food, psychologically threatened with all sorts of crazy stuff and it just always seems like we’ve adopted progressive laws and attitudes in some ways but we haven’t provided people with the skill sets to undo that 19th century mentality.

There’s genuinely a serious issue with violence (and there’s plenty of accounts of it) that runs through what was predominantly a British cultural trait which Ireland also inherited from the 18th/19th and first half of 20th century of brutal parenting and a society that was about beating people into line. It runs through the US too but you’ll find less of it in parts (not all) or the continent. There are some countries where things like corporal punishment in schools and at home aren’t part of the history at all and were banned not decades or years ago but in the 1800s.

I just think it’s something that Ireland (and a lot of our English speaking peer countries) need to have an actual discussion about as we do have a legacy of very brutal child rearing and there’s more than just banning slapping involved in undoing that legacy. To put it in context the state was still sanctioning hitting kids as school in the early 1980s.

We have to equip people with skills and we really haven’t done much of that at all.

There is most definitely a cultural issue and a historical legacy to be tackled and talked about and it’s something we need to tackle. It’s fairly clear we want to have the kind of society where this kind of thing doesn’t happen, but you need more just laws, you need education, discussion and support to achieve that.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:21PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

We have to equip people with skills and we really haven’t done much of that at all.

But it was Dr John Sharry adjunct professor of psychology in UCD who actually gave out the advice to do it in the irish times.

All of the bad things said about her etc.

It was a psychologist specializing in children and parenting that gave out the advice to use a cold shower in his Irish Times Article.

Surely she took his advice because she wanted to help her children not to abuse him.

And he is a parent and a child psychologist.

Surely you could see how she could be convinced to do such a terrible thing if a child psychologist a professor in UCD told you then you would listen right??

Maybe we should tell him he is cruel.

Church on Tuesday · 19-08-2019 12:26PM

All 'influencers' should be waterboarded TBH.

Lackadaisical · 19-08-2019 12:27PM

I don’t really think naming individuals examples of who said what is the issue - it’s a broader national discussion we aren’t really having and at the extreme ends it probably spills into the whole issue of “feral teens” and all of that hugely problematic, yobbish, violent teen culture that keeps cropping up in both Ireland and Britain - I’d see all that as being linked to poor parenting skills and lack of adaptation from a system that had historically just assumed you could physically knock people into line / frighten them into behaving - it never instilled any kind of empathy, emotional intelligence or social awareness, just hit people if they misbehaved.

We stopped hitting people but we didn’t do all the educational things that make more progressive societies work so smoothly.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:28PM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

Ah seriously ?
She seems too nice to do anything mean ?
(Btw , Ted Bundy was charming and charismatic by all accounts apparently!)

I'm out of this tbh , and whether the child has sensory issues or not , the cold showers as punishment are not acceptable . Imo .

An adjunct professor of child psychology dr john sharry wrote an article in the Irish times give the advice for a cold shower.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/at-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fparenting%2Fat-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237

For example, if when he smears he gets a warm bubble bath and lots of lovely attention from you, then he is getting rewarded by the cleaning. Some parents recommend giving their children a cold shower after the smearing so the cleaning is uncomfortable for the child.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:29PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I don’t really think naming individuals examples of who said what is the issue - it’s a broader national discussion we aren’t really having and at the extreme ends it probably spills into the whole issue of “feral teens” and all of that hugely problematic, yobbish, violent teen culture that keeps cropping up in both Ireland and Britain - I’d see all that as being linked to poor parenting skills and lack of adaptation from a system that had historically just assumed you could physically knock people into line / frighten them into behaving - it never instilled any kind of empathy, emotional intelligence or social awareness, just hit people if they misbehaved.

We stopped hitting people but we didn’t do all the educational things that make more progressive societies work so smoothly.

You mean naming DR John Sharry ?

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:29PM

Also if a child psychologist is GIVING this advice. Is it really abuse?

Professor Moriarty · 19-08-2019 12:31PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

An adjunct professor of child psychology dr john sharry wrote an article in the Irish times give the advice for a cold shower.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/at-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fparenting%2Fat-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237

He then goes on to say:

"While I do not recommend any punishment (as this is counter productive and damaging if you are very negative towards your child) it is important to make sure the cleaning process is at least neutral and possibly mildly unpleasant (eg so the child associates cold water with smearing and thus is motivated to avoid the behaviour in the future)."

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:34PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He then goes on to say:

"While I do not recommend any punishment (as this is counter productive and damaging if you are very negative towards your child) it is important to make sure the cleaning process is at least neutral and possibly mildly unpleasant (eg so the child associates cold water with smearing and thus is motivated to avoid the behaviour in the future)."

Yes he says he wants the child to have a mildly unpleasant experience and associate the cold water with smearing and thus be less motivated to avoid the behavior in the future.

Gosh strong views.

I hope no one beats him up in a shed for hrs.

Professor Moriarty · 19-08-2019 12:36PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes he says he wants the child to have a mildly unpleasant experience and associate the cold water with smearing and thus be less motivated to avoid the behavior in the future.

Gosh strong views.

I hope no one beats him up in a shed for hrs.

Or gives him a cold shower.

Mam of 4 · 19-08-2019 12:36PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

An adjunct professor of child psychology dr john sharry wrote an article in the Irish times give the advice for a cold shower.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/at-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhealth-family%2Fparenting%2Fat-night-my-son-smears-poo-on-himself-and-his-bed-1.3418237

I don't care who said it, or advised to do it , I still wouldn't do it as a form of punishment .

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:40PM

Mam of 4 wrote: »

I don't care who said it, or advised to do it , I still wouldn't do it as a form of punishment .

He is a professor of child psychology. And a parent.

Can you at least see even if you don't agree with him that HIS opinion and its weight might convince a parent to do it.

People reported this family to the authorities for this they are being hounded online for basically following the advice of an expert.

It just so happens random people online disagree with his expert opinion and want to harass this family.

That is what its coming across as.

Guess what you just might be wrong.

andekwarhola · 19-08-2019 12:40PM

Wouldn't be caught dead doing it to my own kids but I guess the need for channel views and likes can lead to questionable decisions for some.

It's a war out there.

SusieBlue · 19-08-2019 12:41PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He is a professor of child psychology. And a parent.

Can you at least see even if you don't agree with him that HIS opinion and its weight might convince a parent to do it.

People reported this family to the authorities for this they are being hounded online for basically following the advice of an expert.

It just so happens random people online disagree with his expert opinion and want to harass this family.

That is what its coming across as.

Guess what you just might be wrong.

How do you know they were following the advice of this specific expert or are you just assuming?
Did you miss the bit where said expert also said he doesn't recommend it as a form of punishment?

ILoveYourVibes · 19-08-2019 12:42PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

Wouldn't be caught dead doing it to my own kids but I guess the need for channel views and likes can lead to questionable decisions for some.

It's a war out there.

It was a child psychologist who gave the advise.

Dr John Sharry adjunct professor of UCD.

I think he knows his stuff.

I think people owe that family an apology.

Lackadaisical · 19-08-2019 12:42PM

Well I’d respectfully disagree with the advice on it. I think the rest of his advice made sense but that bit would be beyond the pale for me entirely.

Where a kid does something gross, you have to explain (with gestures, holding your nose, saying ewwwwwwwwww and so on) and really reinforce that it’s gross and you don’t reward the behavior with positive attention.

There can be a lot going on too in terms of seeking any kind of attention (good or bad) because someone’s not getting attention for positive reasons. You see that with both kids and adults acting out to get attention all the time - there are tons of ways of dealing with something like that, without punishing someone.

Irish Youtuber - cold shower punishment for 2 yr old

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