DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

py · 16-08-2019 10:36pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

What time do race predictors give for a 10 mile race for you?

A quick survey of a couple from the top results in google have my race predictions at about 1 hour 20 minutes.

skyblue46 · 16-08-2019 10:41pm

py wrote: »

A quick survey of a couple from the top results in google have my race predictions at about 1 hour 20 minutes.

Run the first 8 miles at 7:55ish, mile 9 will slow you a bit, then give it what you can for the last mile

Treviso · 16-08-2019 10:54pm

py wrote: »

A quick survey of a couple from the top results in google have my race predictions at about 1 hour 20 minutes.

I did find running with pacers for my first race (10 miles) helped me a lot. Lots of encouragement around them and pace is normally steady so you dont need to worry about going too fast/slow. The 80 min pacers will probably head out at 7.55min/mile pace

coogy · 16-08-2019 10:55pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

A single fig roll has 12.4g of carbohydrate (according to google), so you would need to eat 20-25 of them during the marathon to provide adequate fuelling. You would also need to carry them with you.

One of my (many) abiding memories of DCM last year is the taste of a Fig Roll at mile 21.
I don't ever want to see another Fig Roll for as long as I live.

Treviso · 16-08-2019 10:58pm

coogy wrote: »

One of my (many) abiding memories of DCM last year is the taste of a Fig Roll at mile 21.
I don't ever want to see another Fig Roll for as long as I live.

:D:D:D:D

Bananaleaf · 16-08-2019 11:00pm

For Kilcock 10mile:

My PB for 10miles is 1:39:56, so basically 1:40. 10min miles. My PMP is 11min/m

I'm between two ideas for a race strategy: 1st is to begin at 10min/miles and hopefully eventually increase my speed during the race to end up with a PB at the end. Problem with this: I don't run any of my training runs at 10min/m so I don't really know how it feels to running at that pace, if that makes sense.

2nd is to begin at PMP of 11min/m for maybe 2miles, then increase to 10min/m and as above. Problem with this: It might be too much time to make up by the time I get to the latter stage of the race.

I learned over the years (and had it confirmed to me at South Dublin 10km) that I am the kind of runner who tends to do much better when I start slow as I finish much stronger that way. So, maybe a compromise and try to begin at 10:30min/m.

Am I going overboard on the planning?

skyblue46 · 16-08-2019 11:03pm

Bananaleaf wrote: »

For Kilcock 10mile:

My PB for 10miles is 1:39:56, so basically 1:40. 10min miles. My PMP is 11min/m

I'm between two ideas for a race strategy: 1st is to begin at 10min/miles and hopefully eventually increase my speed during the race to end up with a PB at the end. Problem with this: I don't run any of my training runs at 10min/m so I don't really know how it feels to running at that pace, if that makes sense.

2nd is to begin at PMP of 11min/m for maybe 2miles, then increase to 10min/m and as above. Problem with this: It might be too much time to make up by the time I get to the latter stage of the race.

I learned over the years (and had it confirmed to me at South Dublin 10km) that I am the kind of runner who tends to do much better when I start slow as I finish much stronger that way. So, maybe a compromise and try to begin at 10:30min/m.

Am I going overboard on the planning?

With DCM in mind I'd say to aim for 10 min miles. It will tell you more about what you're capable of

coogy · 16-08-2019 11:10pm

py wrote: »

A quick survey of a couple from the top results in google have my race predictions at about 1 hour 20 minutes.

Like you, before I did last year's Irish Runner 10 mile, the longest distance I had raced was a 10k. I had covered 10 mile distances during training alright but I didn't really know how to manage it in a race environment.

What I would say is pick a realistic target time first and foremost. I had decided on a target time of 1hr, 20mins based on my Great Ireland Run time earlier that year. I felt it was a little conservative but I wanted to play it safe-ish to begin with so I went out with the 80 minute pacer. Stayed with the pacing group until about mile 8 and then pushed on for the last two. Finished in 1:18.

Not sure how the FD route compares but if it's your first 10 mile race, that would be my suggestion.

Mr. Guappa · 17-08-2019 7:41am

py wrote: »

A quick survey of a couple from the top results in google have my race predictions at about 1 hour 20 minutes.

If you haven't raced a 10 miler before then I'd agree with coogy and stay on the cautious side target wise. 10 mile is possibly my favourite distance to race, but it is a significant step up from 10k, and from what I can see you are basing those 1:20 predictions off a 5k, so it's going to be unreliable. By comparison, last year I translated a 48:30 10k into a 1:23 10 mile time, while the GIR time coogy talks about was 43:30. I'd be inclined to say 1:25 would be a better 10 mile target time.

Huzzah! · 17-08-2019 9:36am

Treviso wrote: »

I did find running with pacers for my first race (10 miles) helped me a lot. Lots of encouragement around them and pace is normally steady so you dont need to worry about going too fast/slow. The 80 min pacers will probably head out at 7.55min/mile pace

There aren’t pacers for the Frank Duffy. I don’t know about Kilcock.

Huzzah! · 17-08-2019 9:40am

Good luck to all racing tomorrow. Don’t forget to post a race report when you’re done

rizzee · 17-08-2019 9:41am

Coffee time! Roll on 14m. Hopefully the weather is a bit better than last week.

Supercell · 17-08-2019 10:07am

At a rsik of causing skyblue to fall off his chair in shock, may i humbly suggest that perhaps racing the upcoming 10 miles might not be a great idea for some of us.
Let me explain.
I'm an expert, in getting injured. This is my third attempt at reaching the DCM start line. It always happens when I've been training too hard for a sustained period of time.
I put the Elevate for Strava extension for Chrome on my computer and the fatigue peaks in the charts very clearly correspond with injuries.I've slowed my runs way down since my knee operation this year and have now been running about 9 weeks injury and even niggle free, pretty much a record for me.

My advice, take it as you will, is if you are feeling tired by the build up, if you feel like your legs are like lead heading out, why not just take it as a training run or if you really want to push a bit - run it at your planned marathon pace,? Not your best 10k pace or even your half pace if you have done one before, your legs will thank you in the next few weeks.
We are entering the toughest period of training coming up, you will be tired after the 16/18/20 mile LSR weeks, why not get there in as best possible shape?, you'll need it.

Treviso · 17-08-2019 10:55am

Huzzah! wrote: »

There aren’t pacers for the Frank Duffy. I don’t know about Kilcock.

I did check the Kilcock 10 and there are pacers for that race - just in case people running in it didn't know. Pacer every 10 mins from 70 mins up

Fraggle07 · 17-08-2019 12:47pm

I've had to pull out of kilcock 10 mile as injury is still acting up. I was hoping I'd be ok after a week of rest and physio exercises.

I'll be volunteering instead, so hope to see those of you who signed up there!

skyblue46 · 17-08-2019 1:50pm

Supercell wrote: »

At a rsik of causing skyblue to fall off his chair in shock, may i humbly suggest that perhaps racing the upcoming 10 miles might not be a great idea for some of us.
Let me explain.
I'm an expert, in getting injured. This is my third attempt at reaching the DCM start line. It always happens when I've been training too hard for a sustained period of time.
I put the Elevate for Strava extension for Chrome on my computer and the fatigue peaks in the charts very clearly correspond with injuries.I've slowed my runs way down since my knee operation this year and have now been running about 9 weeks injury and even niggle free, pretty much a record for me.

My advice, take it as you will, is if you are feeling tired by the build up, if you feel like your legs are like lead heading out, why not just take it as a training run or if you really want to push a bit - run it at your planned marathon pace,? Not your best 10k pace or even your half pace if you have done one before, your legs will thank you in the next few weeks.
We are entering the toughest period of training coming up, you will be tired after the 16/18/20 mile LSR weeks, why not get there in as best possible shape?, you'll need it.

Firstly I have to say that I'm delighted you have slowed down the runs a bit. Not there yet but definitely an improvement

However on the question of racing FD10 I think that for most novices there are far more benefits in racing it than using it as a PMP run.

If someone has excessively heavy legs at this point in the plan it is probably because they are training too fast. Yes legs will be tired but they should still be able to give their best on the day. Keep the easy runs very easy in the days preceding and following the race and there shouldn't be a problem.

From reading the thread there are many people who have not raced the distance before. It will be mentally beneficial to tick off another distance before the half and full marathon. It will also be of benefit the many who doubt their ability to run faster after running so many miles in training at paces slower than they have ever run before.

Bananaleaf · 17-08-2019 2:02pm

Fraggle07 wrote: »

I've had to pull out of kilcock 10 mile as injury is still acting up. I was hoping I'd be ok after a week of rest and physio exercises.

I'll be volunteering instead, so hope to see those of you who signed up there!

Sorry to hear that, but you are right to be sensible. Hope to see you along the course for what will no doubt be a much-needed boost!

rizzee · 17-08-2019 2:15pm

Can officially say I've ran more than a half marathon after the lsr today. Woo

DBB · 17-08-2019 7:16pm

Best of luck to all of you running in Kilcock tomorrow! I'll be thinking of you all as I snooze a bit longer on my day off

:D:D
Looking forward to the race reports!
Good luck all

pd79 · 17-08-2019 10:58pm

Well done to all the lsr today, I can finally say todays 14 mile lsr was my longest run ever! Knees still sore but not as bad as last week , came home to be stung by a bee , the pain ! Looking forward to FD 10 mile

Laineyfrecks · 17-08-2019 11:14pm

pd79 wrote: »

Well done to all the lsr today, I can finally say todays 14 mile lsr was my longest run ever! Knees still sore but not as bad as last week , came home to be stung by a bee , the pain ! Looking forward to FD 10 mile

Well done on your longest run

It's a great feeling!

frash · 17-08-2019 11:35pm

Was up at 6:30 for a 12 miles run this morning as was flying to Italy in the afternoon.
Here now. Had done the 14 miles in West Cork last weekend.

Only got out twice mid week last week partly due to holidays but also as I'd done said 14 miles on the Sunday. Having said that the mileage was more than on the plan with 2 X 8 milers.

Not as far ahead of the HHN1 as I'd have liked. Plan was always to have a buffer in here for the couple of weeks in Italy but will try to get out early for runs before it heats up too much.

bucky08 · 17-08-2019 11:55pm

Got my lsr run in today. Further than I have ever ran before 16miles. Legs were sore afterwards but only for an hour so I'll take that need to start getting in 5 runs each week from here on in as I have only been getting 4 runs in each week. Have to just try and get my food correct for the day next!!!

mol36 · 18-08-2019 7:03am

Hi all, I am running my second Dcm. Last one a couple of years ago was horrific I blew up completely. Trying to be more prepared this time . So at the morning I’m
Doing a 10 k run on a Monday (6 k tempo of about 5.05 /5.10per km), very easy 5k on a Tuesday,10 mile on a Wednesday where I push it and then Lsr on a sat at a pace of 9.30 per mile. I’m not a fast runner barely break the 2 hour for s half but I’m able to keep up these paces so far. My question is should I be doing interval/speed work as well. Someone said to me I need to do it to get my heart rate to go up and down but I do this in a hitt class I do also. Where to find the time ??? Thanks. X

Huzzah! · 18-08-2019 9:57am

mol36 wrote: »

Hi all, I am running my second Dcm. Last one a couple of years ago was horrific I blew up completely. Trying to be more prepared this time . So at the morning I’m
Doing a 10 k run on a Monday (6 k tempo of about 5.05 /5.10per km), very easy 5k on a Tuesday,10 mile on a Wednesday where I push it and then Lsr on a sat at a pace of 9.30 per mile. I’m not a fast runner barely break the 2 hour for s half but I’m able to keep up these paces so far. My question is should I be doing interval/speed work as well. Someone said to me I need to do it to get my heart rate to go up and down but I do this in a hitt class I do also. Where to find the time ??? Thanks. X

No need to include speed work.

Is the structure you're following one you made yourself or is it based on a plan? I'd have concerns that doing a 10 miler every week where you "push it" will lead to burn out. The LSR also seems too fast. It would be worth slowing it all down; it will help build endurance.

Huzzah! · 18-08-2019 10:01am

skyblue46 wrote: »

A propos absolutely nothing....I'll be hanging around the Frank Duffy. Who is running it?

Just to bump this as it got lost in the melee of pacing posts.

The grads met before this race last year, so it might be worth arranging a meet up?

I have an entry but I'm on the fence about running FD (as an lsr) myself.

Sorbet · 18-08-2019 10:11am

Huzzah! wrote: »

Just to bump this as it got lost in the melee of pacing posts.

The grads met before this race last year, so it might be worth arranging a meet up?

I have an entry but I'm on the fence about running FD (as an lsr) myself.

I'll be there - would be great to say hi. Thinking of targeting 1.35. Coming off a 10k of 53.13 at the South Dublin recently. The calculators suggest that is a reasonable target but conscious of Supercell's advice above too - don't want to jeopardise the main goal of DCM.
Have never raced 10 miles (in fact the 10k was my only race).

Any pacing advice gratefully appreciated.

Huzzah! · 18-08-2019 10:35am

Sorbet wrote: »

I'll be there - would be great to say hi. Thinking of targeting 1.35. Coming off a 10k of 53.13 at the South Dublin recently. The calculators suggest that is a reasonable target but conscious of Supercell's advice above too - don't want to jeopardise the main goal of DCM.
Have never raced 10 miles (in fact the 10k was my only race).

Any pacing advice gratefully appreciated.

How's the knee niggle?

Sorbet · 18-08-2019 10:55am

Huzzah! wrote: »

How's the knee niggle?

Perfect thanks. In retrospect I'm wondering if it was related to running on the Poolbeg surface rather than an accumulation type injury. In any case I've been doing some stretching which has helped and no re occurrence.

Still planning on getting to the physio in next week or so for a plan to keep to in general.

Huzzah! · 18-08-2019 11:06am

Sorbet wrote: »

Perfect thanks. In retrospect I'm wondering if it was related to running on the Poolbeg surface rather than an accumulation type injury. In any case I've been doing some stretching which has helped and no re occurrence.

Still planning on getting to the physio in next week or so for a plan to keep to in general.

That Poolbeg run looks lovely on Strava but the reality of the surface makes it no-so-nice in reality.

Look, it's up to you whether you race it or not and of course there's always a risk inherent in racing, but you've been really good at sticking to the plan and the prescribed paces, so I see no reason for you not to race.

If you're going to the physio this week, which is not a bad idea, try and keep it early in the week and not too close to the race.

I've found a good course preview that we will be posting during the week, but how does 8.55 - 9m/m sound for racing?

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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