Water charges for excessive usage

Brendan Bendar · 16-08-2019 2:58pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're missing:

Crony set up of IW.
Crony sweet metering deal.
Those on welfare will not be paying meters or not.

Many believe metering was a road to privatisation because FF/FG don't do anything unless they can monitise it for the private market.
So when all the above is combined you've various people not wanting anything to do with it for a number of reasons.

If FG/Lab had of been genuinely just looking to improve water infrastructure they could have gone about that first, exactly like they promised, but they got too greedy too fast and couldn't wait to get the metering in, which IMO was the main reason for the whole IW quango.

Agree with most of that Matt, it was handled appallingly and no heads have rolled.

This privateisation crack has me puzzled though.......why so much opposition.

Now I would be opposed to it too, but privateisation sometimes brings accountability, unlike the public service, union ridden, unaccountable faceless churns,who seem to use their position to bed in, get a solid unsackable base, and then operate their own businesses from there.

The auld safety net system, get the foot in the door and Bobs yer Uncle is rife.

The level of productivity is abysmal, absenteeism, unit cost is through the roof all payed for by JQT, the gift that keeps on giving.

Nah mate, won’t get off the ground a second time.

Meter one -meter all.

James Brown · 16-08-2019 4:07pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Agree with most of that Matt, it was handled appallingly and no heads have rolled.

This privateisation crack has me puzzled though.......why so much opposition.

Now I would be opposed to it too, but privateisation sometimes brings accountability, unlike the public service, union ridden, unaccountable faceless churns,who seem to use their position to bed in, get a solid unsackable base, and then operate their own businesses from there.

The auld safety net system, get the foot in the door and Bobs yer Uncle is rife.

The level of productivity is abysmal, absenteeism, unit cost is through the roof all payed for by JQT, the gift that keeps on giving.

Nah mate, won’t get off the ground a second time.

Meter one -meter all.

The trouble with privatisation is it doesn't answer to the electorate. It's about making money not providing a service. Lack of accountability can be corrected and we should have more of it all over the public service and in government.
If only we had some new government coming in promising to 'change the way we do business'.

Brendan Bendar · 16-08-2019 4:17pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The trouble with privatisation is it doesn't answer to the electorate. It's about making money not providing a service. Lack of accountability can be corrected and we should have more of it all over the public service and in government.
If only we had some new government coming in promising to 'change the way we do business'.

Answers to the customer though, which is sometimes a better incentive than “answering to the electorate”.

Answering to the electorate can sometimes mean that a lad in a white suit belonging to a certain party can ‘tip the wink’ to the lad on the truck.

“Listen Mick, the lad in #47 there, always votes...just take whatever he has out and I’ll sort you out for the auld dissabilithy for the missus... how was her trip to ski resort by the way....”

Nah mate .... don’t buy that.

Lack of accountability can be corrected for sure..... just haven’t seen any of it being ‘corrected’ any time recently and not holding my breath to see any “corrections” any time soon.

Uhmmmmmmmm..........doesn’t happen bro......

James Brown · 16-08-2019 4:23pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Answers to the customer though, which is sometimes a better incentive than “answering to the electorate”.

Answering to the electorate can sometimes mean that a lad in a white suit belonging to a certain party can ‘tip the wink’ to the lad on the truck.

“Listen Mick, the lad in #47 there, always votes...just take whatever he has out and I’ll sort you out for the auld dissabilithy for the missus... how was her trip to ski resort by the way....”

Nah mate .... don’t buy that.

Lack of accountability can be corrected for sure..... just haven’t seen any of it being ‘corrected’ any time recently and not holding my breath to see any “corrections” any time soon.

Uhmmmmmmmm..........doesn’t happen bro......

Japers Bren communists People before Profit under the bed?

Brendan Bendar · 16-08-2019 5:14pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Japers Bren communists People before Profit under the bed?

Jaysus Matt,not at all....the lot of them.

Lookit.... these lads only want to get elected, they don’t give a flying fuhhherke about JQT and who pays.

Remember the the auld Health areas, sure wasn’t that set up run by the politicos.

Did they care if the taxpayer was stiffed by the work practices and staffing?

Did they care if the setup was economic and cost effective

Did they fuhherke !!!

Once they got the credit for keeping the jobs for the boys up and running that’s all they wanted

Matthew I had you down as a sensible lad, how can you not see the problems here

Never let politicos and the elected reps get involved in providing a service....never.

The victimless crime..... the taxpayer will be stiffed, out of the ‘pot’ no accountability, who authorized that..... what! Nobody knows.... three or four people involved, nobody in charge...all murky and nebulous......

Nah mate.... bad idea.

Ask Ryanair!!!

Boggles · 16-08-2019 9:24pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

This privateisation crack has me puzzled though.......why so much opposition.

Have a look at the state of the privatization model in England and Wales.

Massive profits, huge unsustainable debts, poor conservation.

The whole model will collapse on top of itself and have to be bailed out by the tax payer.

It's the same model our bunch of muldoons were trying to emulate.

Also Eircom says Hi!

Benedict · 17-08-2019 7:18am

GreeBo wrote: »

This thread confuses me.

The logic seems to be:
1) only some people have meters
2) people with meters will be charged
3) people without meters will/can not be charged
4) its unfair to charge only those with meters
5) its impossible to charge without meters
6) preventing more meters is a good thing

I'm with it up until 6) and then I'm confused.

Many people stood outside their houses and prevented installation - this has proved to be a good thing for them because they now won't be saddled with the quota. Only the poor eejits who allowed meters will have a quota imposed.
There's no need to prevent more meters because IW have abandoned the idea and stopped installing them (even in new houses).
What a complete farce!

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 11:43am

So those that didn't protest or refuse to engage with IW are now whinging they may have to pay IW for excessive use, lol.

Benedict · 17-08-2019 1:54pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So those that didn't protest or refuse to engage with IW are now whinging they may have to pay IW for excessive use, lol.

That's very unfair. You can't blame people for complaining (not whinging) if they have to pay for excessive use when 45% of IW customers don't.

It's just looking for a level playing field.

Can I ask you a straight question and give an honest answer. If you went over the quota and had to pay a fine while every other house on your road was going over the quota and didn't have to pay a fine, would you complain?

Honestly now Plumbthedepts? Tell the truth and shame the devil.

Quote from Citizens' Information site:

"Rates and charges

Irish Water will charge €1.85 per litre for usage over the threshold" (But can only charge those with meters!)

Benedict · 17-08-2019 2:06pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So those that didn't protest or refuse to engage with IW are now whinging they may have to pay IW for excessive use, lol.

That's very unfair. You can't blame people for complaining (not whinging) if they have to pay for excessive use when 45% of IW customers don't.

It's just looking for a level playing field.

Can I ask you a straight question and give an honest answer. If you went over the quota and had to pay a fine while every other house on your road was going over the quota and didn't have to pay a fine, would you complain?

Honestly now Plumbthedepts? Tell the truth and shame the devil.

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 2:13pm

You are assuming I rolled over in the first place by your questions. I tend to worry about myself not what my neighbour is up to.
As I said whinging about paying when they agreed to pay in the first place, lol.

Benedict · 17-08-2019 2:31pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You are assuming I rolled over in the first place by your questions. I tend to worry about myself not what my neighbour is up to.
As I said whinging about paying when they agreed to pay in the first place, lol.

Are you serious? So if a law came in to say people with houses with odd numbers had to pay property tax and even numbers didn't and you had an odd number, you'd pay up no problem? Because most people would say "This is not fair".

Has it not occurred to you that ultimately, you will be paying for the excess usage of those with no meters? And that's okay with you is it?

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 2:39pm

Benedict wrote: »

Are you serious? So if a law came in to say people with houses with odd numbers had to pay property tax and even numbers didn't and you had an odd number, you'd pay up no problem? Because most people would say "This is not fair".
Life's not fair suck it up. No number on my house .
Has it not occurred to you that ultimately, you will be paying for the excess usage of those with no meters? And that's okay with you is it?

I don't have a meter and will never have one but I also am very frugal with water and havest rainwater long before FG's I'll advised attempted cash grab .
Feel free to keep whinging even when you are nabbed for over usage, btw did you protest?

K.Flyer · 17-08-2019 2:56pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

[...]
As I said whinging about paying when they agreed to pay in the first place, lol.

If you mean that people agreed to pay by virtue of having a meter, you would be mistaken.
There is a meter on my supply, but I never engaged with I.W.
I refused to return their forms, supplied no information at all and never claimed the 100 euro incentive.
Until every property on a public water supply is metered and a sensible quota and billing system is in place I will refuse to engage with I.W.
Their excessive usage is based on occupancy levels, they have no idea how many live in my house and I won't tell them.

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 3:00pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Their excessive usage is based on occupancy levels, they have no idea how many live in my house and I won't tell them.

IW's solution will be to Bill you as a single occupancy and charge accordingly unless you correct them. Only took me 10seconds to come up with that and I'm not above average intelligence.

K.Flyer · 17-08-2019 3:12pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

IW's solution will be to Bill you as a single occupancy and charge accordingly unless you correct them. Only took me 10seconds to come up with that and I'm not above average intelligence.

Unfortunately, given I.W.'s ham fisted way of doing things, I doubt they even have that much figured out.
They don't have my details, so who can they send the penalty to?
Don't get me wrong, firstly we believe in water conservation, so I doubt it very much we would go anywhere near the threshold.
Secondly, I have no issues paying for water, but I'm not paying for water while a huge percentage pay nothing and have no consequences for excessive usage.

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 3:26pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Unfortunately, given I.W.'s ham fisted way of doing things, I doubt they even have that much figured out.
They don't have my details, so who can they send the penalty to?
Don't get me wrong, firstly we believe in water conservation, so I doubt it very much we would go anywhere near the threshold.
Secondly, I have no issues paying for water, but I'm not paying for water while a huge percentage pay nothing and have no consequences for excessive usage.

I can assure you if IW has a meter connected to your supply you are on their billing system. Your details were garnered from multiple sources. Electoral register, Revenue take your pick.

GreeBo · 17-08-2019 3:35pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're missing:

Crony set up of IW.
Crony sweet metering deal.
Those on welfare will not be paying meters or not.

Many believe metering was a road to privatisation because FF/FG don't do anything unless they can monitise it for the private market.
So when all the above is combined you've various people not wanting anything to do with it for a number of reasons.

If FG/Lab had of been genuinely just looking to improve water infrastructure they could have gone about that first, exactly like they promised, but they got too greedy too fast and couldn't wait to get the metering in, which IMO was the main reason for the whole IW quango.

You seem to be missing the fact that water is both a service and a resource.
Pay for it as you do gas, petrol, diesel and electricity.

Dont blame cronyism for you not paying your way.

Brendan Bendar · 17-08-2019 4:46pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You are assuming I rolled over in the first place by your questions. I tend to worry about myself not what my neighbour is up to.
As I said whinging about paying when they agreed to pay in the first place, lol.

Nobody whinging or complaining about anything Plumbster.

It’s like this, they can put ten meters on casa Bendar, but not one brown cent will they get till everyone is liable and measureable.

Any fool who thinks the electorate will be stiffed twice deserves to be stiffed.

The Brenner won’t be stiffed by IW..... make no mistake about thaaaaaat.

Benedict · 17-08-2019 5:02pm

There are laws in this country against blatant discrimination. If a Garda says "You there in Yaris were speeding, here's a ticket" but "You there in the Golf, people in Golf's can speed all they want so off you go".
IW are saying - if you have a meter, you can only use so much but if you don't have a meter, you can use what you like.

They think they'll get away with this because the "hard men" will be happy (paying nothing) and the "middle-class softies" who allowed installation will be too polite to object.

McMurphy · 17-08-2019 5:10pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I can assure you if IW has a meter connected to your supply you are on their billing system. Your details were garnered from multiple sources. Electoral register, Revenue take your pick.

Herein lies another potential problem with the complete haimes that is Irish Water, currently we have no meter connected to our home, and even if they do connect one, will they be prevented from obtaining my details from the electoral register, revenue, or any other state entity due to GDRP?

dudara · 17-08-2019 5:27pm

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Herein lies another potential problem with the complete haimes that is Irish Water, currently we have no meter connected to our home, and even if they do connect one, will they be prevented from obtaining my details from the electoral register, revenue, or any other state entity due to GDRP?

Not if legislation is in place to allow them to do so. I'm not aware of the fine details here, but if they have the legal basis to request your data, then they are covered under GDPR

K.Flyer · 17-08-2019 6:19pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I can assure you if IW has a meter connected to your supply you are on their billing system. Your details were garnered from multiple sources. Electoral register, Revenue take your pick.

I can guarantee you that I am not on their system.

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 6:22pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

I can guarantee you that I am not on their system.

You keep thinking that ðŸ˜‰

Plumbthedepths · 17-08-2019 6:25pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody whinging or complaining about anything Plumbster.

Plenty are whinging, but read and pay heed to what you like.

The Brenner won’t be stiffed by IW..... make no mistake about thaaaaaat.

You will.....make no mistake about thaaat. lol.

Spanish Eyes · 17-08-2019 6:57pm

Just dropping by to say I have a water meter. I was one of those people who registered and paid. Got the refund blah blah blah.

Now I think this idea of charging one cohort for excessive use, whilst not being in a position to assess overuse by those without a meter, HAS to be a joke surely?

If not, there will be a Constitutional Crisis! lol, and believe me, those of us like me, who were law abiding back in the day will be first to man the barricades if they pull a stunt like this.

I cannot wait. That is because it would be unjust, not illegal to refuse if you understand me.

Spanish Eyes · 17-08-2019 7:16pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

If you mean that people agreed to pay by virtue of having a meter, you would be mistaken.
There is a meter on my supply, but I never engaged with I.W.
I refused to return their forms, supplied no information at all and never claimed the 100 euro incentive.
Until every property on a public water supply is metered and a sensible quota and billing system is in place I will refuse to engage with I.W.
Their excessive usage is based on occupancy levels, they have no idea how many live in my house and I won't tell them.

Y'all not on the voting register so I take it. But in fairness that does not include children under 18. Hmm

Brendan Bendar · 17-08-2019 8:42pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Just dropping by to say I have a water meter. I was one of those people who registered and paid. Got the refund blah blah blah.

Now I think this idea of charging one cohort for excessive use, whilst not being in a position to assess overuse by those without a meter, HAS to be a joke surely?

If not, there will be a Constitutional Crisis! lol, and believe me, those of us like me, who were law abiding back in the day will be first to man the barricades if they pull a stunt like this.

I cannot wait. That is because it would be unjust, not illegal to refuse if you understand me.

With you there Spanish.

Will not happen.

We will not be stiffed twice......make no mistake about thaaaaaat.

K.Flyer · 17-08-2019 10:09pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You keep thinking that ðŸ˜‰

I'm not bothered whether you believe me or not, but I.W. do not have my details. They made attempts to get them, but they don't have them.

Brendan Bendar · 17-08-2019 11:04pm

Benedict wrote: »

There are laws in this country against blatant discrimination. If a Garda says "You there in Yaris were speeding, here's a ticket" but "You there in the Golf, people in Golf's can speed all they want so off you go".
IW are saying - if you have a meter, you can only use so much but if you don't have a meter, you can use what you like.

They think they'll get away with this because the "hard men" will be happy (paying nothing) and the "middle-class softies" who allowed installation will be too polite to object.

They better start thinking again Ben.

Water charges for excessive usage

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