The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

kilns · 14-08-2019 02:28PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Motions from clubs can only change the rules. Which rule do you suggest should be amended to stop the funding imbalance?

The funding imbalance has stopped to be fair, other motions would have to be brought forward if people want

elefant · 14-08-2019 02:29PM

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

To all those concerned and posting about “financial doping”

Can I ask - are you actually a member of the GAA, as in a member of a club?

Instead of beating your drum in here which you are more than welcome to do, I’d like to know what you are going to do about it? There are many posters seem to be hugely passionate and outraged about this issue, so what are you going to do? Are you going to bring a motion through your club about it?

What sort of motion for congress would you suggest could be proposed that would affect how the GAA disperses funding?

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 02:29PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

You know full well GAA HQ have their fingers in their ears. Horan has said he sees nothing wrong with the current funding model. How on earth can you persuade someone like that, particularly a Dub?

Of course you can lobby other like minded county boards, and if there is enough of support for it will pass.
The GAA may have problems but they are an extremely democratic organisation probably too democratic at times.

Surely from the way you are talking it should be the vast majority of delegates v Dublin?

ArielAtom · 14-08-2019 02:30PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Intercounty championship attendances would say otherwise, Dublin9male.

the GAA is not just about inter county. I have more interest in my club and was more excited when we as as club won an AI title. But if the yardstick you are measuring the GAA on, it is conceptually flawed. Someone might have the breakdown of club v IC players stats.

You might answer the question put to you regarding you membership status with the GAA?

bruschi · 14-08-2019 02:30PM

kilns wrote: »

The funding imbalance has stopped to be fair, other motions would have to be brought forward if people want

How has the funding imbalance stopped?

Cilldara_2000 · 14-08-2019 02:31PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not true - Mayo thinking of one

http://www.mayonews.ie/sports/33284-clubs-critical-of-inequality-of-funding-to-dublin-gaa

Ardnaree delegate Johnny O’Malley then raised the idea of a motion for the 2020 GAA Congress tackling the ‘inequality of funding’ going towards Dublin

Eh? I said "motions from clubs can only change the rules". I see nothing in your link suggesting otherwise. So, yes true.

In any case, I guarantee you that this "idea of a motion" will go no further. It will be shot down because the powers that be will rule it out of order and say that funding has no place in the Official Guide.

rebel girl 15 · 14-08-2019 02:31PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Motions from clubs can only change the rules. Which rule do you suggest should be amended to stop the funding imbalance?

Off the top of my head

Chapter 1 and 3 - 3.4ish somewhere dealing with national finance committee, can’t remember where in chapter 1. Been a while since I argued the point regarding actually taking action.

Funding imbalance has already started to be addressed - but within those two chapters there is scope to change rules regarding finance.

ToBeFrank123 · 14-08-2019 02:32PM

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

So you are a member of the GAA?

If there is this so called appetite for change as many on here claim, then that excuse is pathetic - “they are just bitter”. It can’t be claimed that there is outrage over this and then excuses trotted out - oh it won’t work. How do you know it won’t? Have you networked with other county delegates? There is a quote attributed to Margaret Mead that a lot of ye on here need to find if that’s the attitude others are taking.

I know it from personal experience it doesn’t take many people - took just two of us to enact huge change in a province when I was living here, once that started it lit the fire of change.

Soapbox away all you want on here - I completely respect anyone who will debate issues and then take action on their views, but you’ve lost my respect with that post - passing the buck saying the reform needs to come from top down. Maybe it does, but appetite for change at the top comes from the grassroots, not the other way around

I was a member up to the age of 20 then lost touch with my local club because of moving elsewhere for economic reasons - another disadvantage of rural counties.

You do not have to be a member of a club to have a view on the downfall of the GAA.

Many people no longer are members of clubs because of the farce they see in the GAA. Should they be banned from having an opinion too?

Rebel, the more people interested the better. But preventing people having a view because they aren't a GAA member is the wrong way to go - it leads to a very shallow pool of ideas which grows shallower by the day.

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 02:33PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Eh? I said "motions from clubs can only change the rules". I see nothing in your link suggesting otherwise. So, yes true.

In any case, I guarantee you that this "idea of a motion" will go no further. It will be shot down because the powers that be will rule it out of order and say that funding has no place in the Official Guide.

Well if there is as much noise about it on here - surely numbers alone will win out.
It seems people just like making noises on the sidelines here - how productive - don't try there in no point - genius stuff.
Give out plenty on social media though that will show them! :rolleyes:

Cilldara_2000 · 14-08-2019 02:33PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Of course you can lobby other like minded county boards, and if there is enough of support for it will pass.
The GAA may have problems but they are an extremely democratic organisation probably too democratic at times.

Surely from the way you are talking it should be the vast majority of delegates v Dublin?

Democracy me hole tbf. Club members and county board delegates have no idea which way their county's congress delegates vote. There's no accountability.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/motion-to-provide-transparent-voting-is-defeated-at-gaa-congress-1.3404707

kilns · 14-08-2019 02:34PM

bruschi wrote: »

How has the funding imbalance stopped?

per head of population for under 18s which Games Development funds are earmarked for, Dublin are middle of the pack in terms of funding for the last 3 years

Certain journalists throw out the big round figure of 1,3m or whatever which is ridiculous without any context

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 02:35PM

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Democracy me hole tbf. Club members and county board delegates have no idea which way their county's congress delegates vote. There's no accountability.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/motion-to-provide-transparent-voting-is-defeated-at-gaa-congress-1.3404707

Vote out your county delegates then if you do not like them - simple as.

Or better still work your way up the ladder and run for the job yourself!

Keano · 14-08-2019 02:36PM

In a hypothetical world, if every county got €2M every single year from HQ do people still think the best team with the best players wouldn't still win the All Ireland?

Bridge93 · 14-08-2019 02:37PM

Is the 'split dublin, their population is too big' argument dead now so? The registered playing numbers have been posted a few times. Given the players in Dublin number not that much more than Cork presumably we can all agree splitting based on population is unnecessary now. Debate the funding by all means.

bruschi · 14-08-2019 02:37PM

kilns wrote: »

per head of population for under 18s which Games Development funds are earmarked for, Dublin are middle of the pack in terms of funding for the last 3 years

Certain journalists throw out the big round figure of 1,3m or whatever which is ridiculous without any context

What are the stats published on this?

What about per registered player? Considering Dublin dont have anywhere near 100% participation per population, why does this figure get covered by thousands of kids who have no bearing on the work being done?

it also has not stopped the imbalance.

gormdubhgorm · 14-08-2019 02:39PM

This is turning into a pure Irish thread -

Give out - but not through the right channels - because there is no point nothing will change

Rinse and repeat...

Barstool stuff.

It is the same argument people use for not voting in elections - the government do nuttin' - they only robbin' us.

bruschi · 14-08-2019 02:40PM

as an aside, I dont think Dublins funding should be cut either. There are full time people working, they shouldnt be unemployed because the GAA now feel they should send money elsewhere. The aim is to get players playing and increase the standards of skill levels and playing ability. The program should be widely utilised and funding greatly expanded to the other counties, many of who have been seeking this for a number of years but completely shot down every time.

ClanofLams · 14-08-2019 02:41PM

Keano wrote: »

In a hypothetical world, if every county got €2M every single year from HQ do people still think the best team with the best players wouldn't still win the All Ireland?

Not trying to be smart but this is a really simplistic way of looking at it. Of course the best team would still win the All Ireland.

How have they become the best team though? Is having a massive amount of funding which allowed for huge coaching and development resources to be poured into the county fifteen to twenty years ago a factor? A huge financial disparity which resulted in such resources being poured into one county is a serious issue.

kilns · 14-08-2019 02:41PM

bruschi wrote: »

What are the stats published on this?

What about per registered player? Considering Dublin dont have anywhere near 100% participation per population, why does this figure get covered by thousands of kids who have no bearing on the work being done?

it also has not stopped the imbalance.

The clue is in the title, why bother trying to promote the games and go into schools etc if you are only promoting to those who are converted and registered playing in clubs.

GDO are not there to spread the word on the games and attract new kids (as many as possible)?

ToBeFrank123 · 14-08-2019 02:42PM

Keano wrote: »

In a hypothetical world, if every county got €2M every single year from HQ do people still think the best team with the best players wouldn't still win the All Ireland?

In a purely hypothetical world, if every county in Leinster each received €2M, about 5 or 6 years from now when the fruits of that money started to come through, Leinster would become a competitive province. Although, Leinster counties would still be 10 years behind in development terms.

bruschi · 14-08-2019 02:46PM

kilns wrote: »

The clue is in the title, why bother trying to promote the games and go into schools etc if you are only promoting to those who are converted and registered playing in clubs.

GDO are not there to spread the word on the games and attract new kids (as many as possible)?

less then 20% of under 18s in Dublin play GAA, but yet you think the best way of measuring the money spent is to include the 80%+ who arent registered with a club, the club who spends the money on the GDO.

kilns · 14-08-2019 02:49PM

bruschi wrote: »

less then 20% of under 18s in Dublin play GAA, but yet you think the best way of measuring the money spent is to include the 80%+ who arent registered with a club, the club who spends the money on the GDO.

So if you are a business selling biscuits and there is a total market of 100,000 people, are you are happy if your marketing department targets only the 20,000 who always buy your product or would you want to increase your market share?

StupidLikeAFox · 14-08-2019 02:51PM

ArielAtom wrote: »

Do all the posters on here ranting about GDO’s actually know what they do???
Do posters realise that Dublin’s funding has been cut?
Are any posters willing to come up with a solution or continue to whinge on an Internet forum?

1. Yes

2. Looked into this. Came across an article where they had a drop of 165k in 2017. The same article mentions they had commercial revenue €1.46m - I think they will survive.

3. The thread title is Dominance of Dublin GAA but I'll bite anyway. I think the first step is to admit that there is an imbalance in the advantages that Dublin have. Some of these are natural and unavoidable (population, location of players, revenue generating abilities), some are manufactured and could be addressed (disparity in funding, Croke park as a de-facto home venue etc). I then think GAA should focus on mitigating some of those advantages to level the playing field. "Project Dublin" has been hugely successful - but it has created a hugely one-sided championship so I think its time to focus on bringing other counties up to that standard. I don't think thats unreasonable, I don't think its anti-Dublin to want a level playing field and I don't see why Dublin people wouldn't want the same to be honest.

BonnieSituation · 14-08-2019 02:53PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

To be honest rebel, the GAA is so screwed up at the moment, and Dublin financial doping is just one issue among many, that one motion wouldn't help.

And then as soon as a motion is brought to HQ or publicised, you will get the usual, "ah they are just bitter", etc.

Really the reform needs to come from the top down.

Ah, the "can't someone else do it" defence.

I honestly feel at this stage that the thread is turning into a parody. Cries of Dublin fans being in an echo chamber when the only people putting people on ignore are those who are anti-Dublin.

It boggles the mind.

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 02:58PM

bruschi wrote: »

What are the stats published on this?

What about per registered player? Considering Dublin dont have anywhere near 100% participation per population, why does this figure get covered by thousands of kids who have no bearing on the work being done?

it also has not stopped the imbalance.

How do the number of kids have no bearing on a scheme to increase juvenile participation?

We are back in Aslan territory now with bizarre arguments.

Keano · 14-08-2019 02:58PM

ClanofLams wrote: »

Not trying to be smart but this is a really simplistic way of looking at it. Of course the best team would still win the All Ireland.

How have they become the best team though? Is having a massive amount of funding which allowed for huge coaching and development resources to be poured into the county fifteen to twenty years ago a factor? A huge financial disparity which resulted in such resources being poured into one county is a serious issue.

It was very simplistic alright but money isn't the reason behind everything. As a Clare man, who watched Kilkenny dominate hurling for a decade they didn't have bags of cash but still walked all over teams - they had the best players. I just believe this Dublin team have the best players, their time in the doldrums will come again.

Cilldara_2000 · 14-08-2019 02:59PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This is turning into a pure Irish thread -

Give out - but not through the right channels - because there is no point nothing will change

Rinse and repeat...

Barstool stuff.

It is the same argument people use for not voting in elections - the government do nuttin' - they only robbin' us.

Well actually people can do both - give out in person to county officers and generally discuss online. I know, I have done both.

We also know for a fact that the average per match attendances are falling. People are voting with their feet as well.

kilns · 14-08-2019 02:59PM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

1. Yes

2. Looked into this. Came across an article where they had a drop of 165k in 2017. The same article mentions they had commercial revenue €1.46m - I think they will survive.

3. The thread title is Dominance of Dublin GAA but I'll bite anyway. I think the first step is to admit that there is an imbalance in the advantages that Dublin have. Some of these are natural and unavoidable (population, location of players, revenue generating abilities), some are manufactured and could be addressed (disparity in funding, Croke park as a de-facto home venue etc). I then think GAA should focus on mitigating some of those advantages to level the playing field. "Project Dublin" has been hugely successful - but it has created a hugely one-sided championship so I think its time to focus on bringing other counties up to that standard. I don't think thats unreasonable, I don't think its anti-Dublin to want a level playing field and I don't see why Dublin people wouldn't want the same to be honest.

So if central funding is addressed (which is has and continues to be) and the "home venue" is sorted, how else would you suggested leveling the playing field considering that Dublin have always enjoyed the population, geographical advantages and revenue generating advantages which has not always translated into success

Solutions are welcome as any GAA person likes to see competition

Or could it be the fact that in the next 2/3 years Dublin will lose a big chunk of their squad which will naturally level the playing field

blanch152 · 14-08-2019 03:00PM

bruschi wrote: »

less then 20% of under 18s in Dublin play GAA, but yet you think the best way of measuring the money spent is to include the 80%+ who arent registered with a club, the club who spends the money on the GDO.

Most of the kids in schools receiving coaching from GDOs are not members of any club. How does counting the number of kids in clubs be the best measure of the money spent?

ClanofLams · 14-08-2019 03:04PM

Keano wrote: »

It was very simplistic alright but money isn't the reason behind everything. As a Clare man, who watched Kilkenny dominate hurling for a decade they didn't have bags of cash but still walked all over teams - they had the best players. I just believe this Dublin team have the best players, their time in the doldrums will come again.

Fair enough. Not sure if you have read the whole thread or not and things are getting more than a little repetitive at this stage.

Dublin certainly have the best players. I certainly haven’t said money is the reason for that but rather that funding is a substantial factor.

Just out of interest, do you think Dublin men’s and women footballers enjoying their best decade in history, Dublin hurlers and hurling clubs massively improved, juvenile success increased, fifteen to twenty years after a massive increase in funding is coincidental and entirely unrelated to that funding?

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1