The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

partyguinness

Gachla wrote: »

So you think it's right and fair that one county buys success in an amateur sport?

Where did I say that?

partyguinness

Gachla wrote: »

Were they so embarrassed by it that they decided to go against the very ethos of the GAA?

Get off the high horse.

What about all the illegal money passing to coaches and players up and down the country.

kilns

Happyilylost wrote: »

And for the counties that couldn't afford this level of administration it's just tough luck?

Thats not what i was saying, Dublin could have sqaundered the funding they received, like other counties have previously. But they got organised and put the structures in place. Perhaps they will not work for every county but it is a template to follow.

Do you we know how other counties are spending the development funding they are receiving? I dont, but would be interesting to see if every penny goes into it and do politics of some county boards take over?

blanch152

Happyilylost wrote: »

If the next Con or Connolly play for Dublin in ten years time who attended St. Peters do you think it would be of benefit to Dublin Senior team? You seem to be only looking at the short game and to be fair to a lot of posters here they amore have an issue with the long game.

Those children in St Peter's School have special needs and I would be astonished if any of them ever ended up playing for Dublin.

If, as you and others argue, that the money is to help the Dublin senior school, why are Dublin GAA going out of their way to put a GDO in a special school?

I will tell you why - it isn't about the senior team, it is about helping each and every kid, no matter who they are.

Gachla

blanch152 wrote: »

Does he exist?

Of course he exists. This is desperate stuff. You can look him up if you want. He works with Kilmacud Crokes. Are you calling him a liar?

StupidLikeAFox

kilns wrote: »

Thin air stuff

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have a link to back this up?

If that is the case, why are Dublin not winning five-in-a-row at minor level?

Here is the link lads: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-kieran-shannon-interview-the-real-jackanory-behind-dublins-perfect-storm-942964.html

Here is the exact quote:

I went back the following year to an U15 development squad. And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day. Kids were coming into us without the basic skills. They were kick-passing a five-yard pass instead of hand-passing it but their instinct was to kick it along the ground. So they obviously hadn’t been exposed to any level of coaching.

I look now at U14 football in Dublin and the standard of football in the county is phenomenal. The level of individual skill the players have, the level of coaching teams, it’s incomparable to the late ’90s, early ’00s. And a big reason why is obviously the GDO system going into Dublin.

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

7000? good luck to you:rolleyes:

What? You don't believe me? The other lad doesn't believe the GDO exists. You don't want to believe these claims because you will have to admit that Dublin have been given huge and irreversible unfair funding advantages.

blanch152

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Ah come off it. A kid holding a hurley or kicking a ball once or twice at a cul camp is not participation.

Where are all these mythical kids playing the game to keep fit? I've rarely if ever seen a kid play gaelic football in a kick around in a park in Dublin. Playing soccer, sure.

As for cumann na mbunscol, its always going to be the best players playing and 90% of the time its the same kids registered with gaa clubs.

Its a complete lie and myth that kids who aren't affiliated to clubs are learning GAA games and then playing it in the park to keep fit. It ain't happening. And as if they have to learn gaelic sports to keep fit, FFS.

I posted this infographic earlier in another post to help educate posters like yourself:

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/cfmp6cax48v7w6mxrp9t.pdf


Have a read of it and maybe the associated report before you comment again.

Scoundrel

partyguinness wrote: »

Nothing and it's got nothing to do with salmon fishing in Bulgaria but there you go.

It is a comment on how no matter what Dublin are always considered fair game with the bitching and bitterness.

'Fairness and equality' - while you are at it why not mention the under the table cash payments in brown envelopes that players & coaches get all around the country and for decades.

The topic of this thread isn't salmon fishing in Bulgaria or dodgy payments to coaches and players(another massive problem in the "amateur" association) the topic is the dominance of Dublin and to what extent the massive financial contributions from the GAA has lead to that dominance.

StupidLikeAFox

blanch152 wrote: »

Those children in St Peter's School have special needs and I would be astonished if any of them ever ended up playing for Dublin.

If, as you and others argue, that the money is to help the Dublin senior school, why are Dublin GAA going out of their way to put a GDO in a special school?

I will tell you why - it isn't about the senior team, it is about helping each and every kid, no matter who they are.

You are bleating on about this ****e again. From your own quote the GDO goes into the school 4 hours a week. What is he doing the rest of the week? He is going to other schools. He is also developing talent in the club at a juvenile and at an adult level. He is supervising club training sessions. This is all freely available information. I don't know if you deliberately ignore this point but you are putting your head in the sand as to what a GDO actually does.

Gachla

partyguinness wrote: »

Where did I say that?

So we agree, it's a major scandal.

kilns

Gachla wrote: »

What? You don't believe me? The other lad doesn't believe the GDO exists. You don't want to believe these claims because you will have to admit that Dublin have been given huge and irreversible unfair funding advantages.

You are saying counties like Leitrim, Sligo, Carlow etc only received 7000 in development funds in 2017 while Dublin received 1.5m

Gachla

partyguinness wrote: »

Get off the high horse.

What about all the illegal money passing to coaches and players up and down the country.

That illegal money is wrong and should be stopped. There, not so difficult is it? Pity the Dubs can't admit similar with their finances.

ToBeFrank123

blanch152 wrote: »

Those children in St Peter's School have special needs and I would be astonished if any of them ever ended up playing for Dublin.

If, as you and others argue, that the money is to help the Dublin senior school, why are Dublin GAA going out of their way to put a GDO in a special school?

I will tell you why - it isn't about the senior team, it is about helping each and every kid, no matter who they are.

Its about helping each and every kid, about 80% of whom abandon the sport by the time they are 18 or well before.

What's left are the cream of the crop at u20/21 level where the serious money is put in.

The other 80% are abandoned either along the way, or else abandon the sport, many after holding the hurley in the cul camp.

Millions thrown at getting people playing with mixed and often poor results, but the cream ending up getting the major part of the money and resources.

There is something seriously wrong and you could say rotten at the core of the Dublin funding model. It appears to be completely elitist driven. The high cost of club registration underlines this. People from poor backgrounds will struggle with the cost. We know many people from non Irish backgrounds have much lower income and joining a GAA club for 150 or 200 euro is a non runner.

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

Thats not what i was saying, Dublin could have sqaundered the funding they received, like other counties have previously. But they got organised and put the structures in place. Perhaps they will not work for every county but it is a template to follow.

Do you we know how other counties are spending the development funding they are receiving? I dont, but would be interesting to see if every penny goes into it and do politics of some county boards take over?

No other county has this money!! We're talking millions every year here. Dublin get 1.5 million in sponsorship money. Most counties are barely breaking even, some are not even doing that. You are clueless!

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

You are saying counties like Leitrim, Sligo, Carlow etc only received 7000 in development funds in 2017 while Dublin received 1.5m

No, I'm saying that 2017 isn't the only year that Games Development funding existed. There were years when counties were getting 7,000 while Dublin were getting 1.6 million.

kilns

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Its about helping each and every kid, about 80% of whom abandon the sport by the time they are 18 or well before.

What's left are the cream of the crop at u20/21 level where the serious money is put in.

The other 80% are abandoned either along the way, or else abandon the sport, many after holding the hurley in the cul camp.

Millions thrown at getting people playing with mixed and often poor results, but the cream ending up getting the major part of the money and resources.

There is something seriously wrong and you could say rotten at the core of the Dublin funding model. It appears to be completely elitist driven. The high cost of club registration underlines this. People from poor backgrounds will struggle with the cost. We know many people from non Irish backgrounds have much lower income and joining a GAA club for 150 or 200 euro is a non runner.

Rotten to the core, give us a break

bruschi

kilns wrote: »

Again that makes no sense, GDOs therefore are only there to maintain numbers not increase them

Do you have evidence that thousands of kids have never been coached by GDOs? Nearly every club I know in my part of Dublin has their GDOs going into every school in their area on a very regular basis

I'm not sure why you arent reading what I am saying. I have stated the aim should be to increase numbers coming into clubs. However covering all numbers of every child, whether they ever played, have intention of playing or are in clubs doesnt seem right to me considering the huge disparity of numbers or population who are actually playing the game.

but anyway, have a look at John Horans comments on the funding:
https://www.herald.ie/sport/gaa/horan-dublin-debate-skewed-38276385.html

"The funding going into Dublin is to maintain participation levels in the organisation, which is key," he added.

although I wouldnt agree with that, but this is what the national president of the GAA is saying about his home county.

To answer your other query, page 51 with schools penetration rate

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/tstblikbtwvqfubdiwpe.pdf

However those rates of 75% and 81% are only on schools who enter teams, as I know I have a PDF report of a Dublin coaching and games where the GDO penetration rate was somewhere about 90% to schools in Dublin. I cant find it online however.

If the aim is to increase participation though, surely with the investment you would be looking for greater returns? Whether or not you agree, but other Dublin posters on here have claimed that there is not enough of a return on the investment to numbers registering with a club. Na Fianna are one club I know who on one of their surveys found about 50% retention on schools to club registration, which is substantially higher than the county average.

ArielAtom

Gachla wrote: »

What? You don't believe me? The other lad doesn't believe the GDO exists. You don't want to believe these claims because you will have to admit that Dublin have been given huge and irreversible unfair funding advantages.

Gachla, do you actually know what a GDO does?
I have been involved in my club with a group from academy through to now 1st year minor. In that time our GDO has organised coaching workshops for
each group of new parents willing to help out, he has not taken one session directly with our lads in either football or hurling. So the myth that there is this professional coaching going on at club level is wrong.

kilns

Gachla wrote: »

No, I'm saying that 2017 isn't the only year that Games Development funding existed. There were years when counties were getting 7,000 while Dublin were getting 1.6 million.

You were quoting my previous discussion on the 2017 figures so you will concede that is not the case

Care to share the year where a county got 7000 in Games development funds and Dublin received 1.5m?

Gachla

ArielAtom wrote: »

Gachla, do you actually know what a GDO does?
I have been involved in my club with a group from academy through to now 1st year minor. In that time our GDO has organised coaching workshops for
each group of new parents willing to help out, he has not taken one session directly with our lads in either football or hurling. So the myth that there is this professional coaching going on at club level is wrong.

Another one calling these GDO's who've been working in Dublin for 2 decades liars. Have a read of the article linked.

BonnieSituation

Gachla wrote: »

So we agree, it's a major scandal.

Just like financial mismanagement in other counties right?

Gachla wrote: »

That illegal money is wrong and should be stopped. There, not so difficult is it? Pity the Dubs can't admit similar with their finances.

Dublin are being financed illegally now?

ClanofLams

kilns wrote: »

Thats not what i was saying, Dublin could have sqaundered the funding they received, like other counties have previously. But they got organised and put the structures in place. Perhaps they will not work for every county but it is a template to follow.

Do you we know how other counties are spending the development funding they are receiving? I dont, but would be interesting to see if every penny goes into it and do politics of some county boards take over?

This is nonsense. I’m sure there’s some wastage in funding in all counties including Dublin.

But these repeated implications (Mayo players get mileage for traveling by bus, proven wrong) Corks development funding was affected by pairc ui chaoimh screw ups (in 2007!), now other counties aren’t spending development funding properly.

These are all baseless allegations. If there is evidence fine post away but just throwing out theories about wrong doing is pretty shameful.

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

You were quoting my previous discussion on the 2017 figures so you will concede that is not the case

Care to share the year where a county got 7000 in Games development funds and Dublin received 1.5m?

I said you were ignoring facts. Just focusing on 2017. In 2006, Mayo got 7,500 while Dublin got 1.6 million for example. It's all on the GAA annual accounts.

ToBeFrank123

Good luck getting sources out of kilns. Its one of the reason I put him on ignore.

Lots of random figures pulled out of thin air, rarely a source to support them.

kilns

ClanofLams wrote: »

This is nonsense. I’m sure there’s some wastage in funding in all counties including Dublin.

But these repeated implications (Mayo players get mileage for traveling by bus, proven wrong) Corks development funding was affected by pairc ui chaoimh screw ups (in 2007!), now other counties aren’t spending development funding properly.

These are all baseless allegations. If there is evidence fine post away but just throwing out theories about wrong doing is pretty shameful.

It wasnt an allegation as I stated I did know!:rolleyes:

I was asking can other posters from other counties testify that the Games development funds are spent on just that and can they see it in action?

bruschi

Gachla wrote: »

Also, GDO's who've worked in Dublin since this all began state that the difference in standards of players going into development squads then compared to now is like night and day.

blanch152 wrote: »

Do you have a link to back this up?

If that is the case, why are Dublin not winning five-in-a-row at minor level?

kilns wrote: »

Thin air stuff

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-kieran-shannon-interview-the-real-jackanory-behind-dublins-perfect-storm-942964.html

And if you were to compare the quality of player coming through then to the U13s now, the difference is night and day.

blanch152

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Here is the link lads: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/columnists/kieran-shannon/the-kieran-shannon-interview-the-real-jackanory-behind-dublins-perfect-storm-942964.html

Here is the exact quote:

Did you read the article?

Here are some quotes:

"A lot of clubs started to get their act together and put in a big shift in their nurseries and juvenile sections. They began to coach the coaches so the skills were being coached correctly and that there’d be a unity of purpose running right throughout the club."

No wonder the kids in later years had the skills.

"But the population base is the big advantage.....For a Derry or Monaghan to have a good county team, you need every club to produce a county player. In Dublin it only has to be one in every three clubs."

Sounds like amalgamations could help.


"And now you have a Ciaran Archer.

My two years with Maurs, he was the first man there and last man to leave, all the time with a bag of footballs. The weekend Conor McManus kicked that wonder point up in Omagh out by the sideline, Ciaran kicked a better point for us against St Brigid’s in a league match out in Rush. Our video analyst had it clipped and everything but we decided not to put it up on social media, that he didn’t need to be put on a pedestal at that stage.

That score wasn’t the product of a GDO or an AIG or any culture I created. He just has a work ethic, a willingness to learn and a love of the game."

Reads like he is emphasising the natural skill and the hard work as the reason for Ciaran Archer, not the funding.

"A huge emphasis went on in Dublin into the club nurseries. In Kilmacud we could have 100 kids coming into the nursery every year. And we are lucky that it’s very parent-led. It’s not like a Castleblaney where you are relying on ex-players to come back down and take teams. In Kilmacud if we get 100 kids coming in, we get about 50 parents willing to help out."

He seems to be saying that they get more volunteers in Dublin clubs than in rural clubs, but that was rubbished on here earlier by the Dublin-haters.

"People think Kilmacud is just about winning senior championships or All-Irelands but one of the things I’m proudest of is that recently we had the first U15 D team in Dublin."

Again, seems like he is talking about increasing juvenile participation as being more important than the senior team.

"In fairness, the standard of coaching in Dublin club football is excellent. The standard of volunteer coaching."

Ah no, don't tell me he is agreeing with me about the standards of the volunteers. Thanks for this article.

"The Dublin development squads aren’t better resourced than any other in the country but I know the people involved in their current U15 and U16 squads and the level of coaching those kids are getting exposed to is phenomenal. Just the level of attention to detail, the level of individual development they’re getting.

Ger Lyons is overlooking them. Again, he’s a volunteer, a teacher out in Lucan, but who has coached teams out in UCD with John Divilly and won Sigersons.
"


Once again, it's not the money, that's the same as elsewhere, but the quality of the volunteer coaching!!

"People don’t like to admit it but other counties are being mismanaged. The financial mismanagement in Galway has been widely reported. Derry have appointed three treasurers in four years. Kerry ladies football has loads of good players but the structures aren’t right at the top and there’s a lot of internal fighting. Dublin are an example of good governance."

Oh dear, now they are saying that other counties haven't got their act together.

"The work Kerry have been doing at underage is phenomenal; they’re going to win All-Irelands again. Galway have loads of good footballers. Mayo, Tyrone, those counties aren’t going to go away. Cork are going to come back strong. Dublin’s dominance will end."

Just as I and the other Dubs have been repeatedly saying. Thank you very much for that link, it backed up the majority of what I was saying, that good volunteers, good coaching, once-in-a-generation players and hard work have been the main factors in Dublin's success.

gormdubhgorm

jmayo wrote: »

And yet you forgot to mention they won in 2010, 2012, 2014, 2017 and were runners up in 2002 as well as this year.

Before that their only appearances were as losers in finals in 75 and 80.

Funny how you are ignoring the bigger stats that highlight the fact that Dublin's performances have drastically improved.

If you look at it from 78 to now Dublin have only won the all-ireland 8 times
-in 1983, 1995, 2011, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018.

Maybe in a few weeks it could be 9 - but that is still only ONE all-ireland EVERY FOUR AND A HALF YEARS.

It shows these things to me -

1) How Dublin vastly underachieved for years - drastically!

2) How Dublin got thier act together and focused on youth - thier previous minor win was in 1984 for decades - they never even won an u21 until 2003 - that was disgraceful underachieving and mismanagement

3) Other counties have regressed fallen by the way side underachieved - or regressed after thier over-achievements in other years

4) Dublin have an exceptional group of players.

Yet despite all this Dublin are well behind Kerry in the roll of honour - 37 v 28 - in fact many of Dublin's early wins were from teams full of non-dubs - even Kerry men.
Dublin win an average of an all-ireland less than every four years since 78 and somehow that is a crisis.

Kerry have recently done five in a row at minor level.

Since 1978 Kerry have won 14 AI's at senior - that is an AI in LESS THAN ONE EVERY THREE YEARS

1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1997, 2000, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2014

Gachla

kilns wrote: »

It wasnt an allegation as I stated I did know!:rolleyes:

I was asking can other posters from other counties testify that the Games development funds are spent on just that and can they see it in action?

It's spent on coaches.