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The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread V3

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Comments

  • #3032
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Hazys wrote: »
    I agree to a certain extent. The Patriots spread the salary cap around better. They rather pay 5 above average players the same price as paying one superstar the same price which is more the norm of the NFL. If it was the top 200/300 players, I’d say the patriots would have the most.

    But there is a element to the list of valuing flash over functionality. Otherwise why would Jarvis Laundry be 10 or so spots ahead of Julian Edelman?

    Salary isn't everything but Landry's average is nearly double Edelman's. Obviously there are other causes to why some players get more or accepted less but it gives an idea of what the market thinks of both players. I can see an argument that Edelman is a product of the Patriot system and Brady, so rightly or wrongly gets maked down by some voters because of it.

    In my opinion, which also could play into this, someone who misses games in a given season for PEDs shouldn't be included on any list.


  • #3033
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    Brady, so rightly or wrongly gets maked down by some voters because of it.
    It's accepted almost universally that Brady is the GOAT, he doesn't get marked down anymore.


  • #3034
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's accepted almost universally that Brady is the GOAT, he doesn't get marked down anymore.

    I was talking about Edelman not Brady. As a WR, you may not get as much credit when you're playing with debatably 'the GOAT' QB, HC, and system for your skillset.

    Many would rank WRs with 'flashy' plays on poorer teams higher due to it being a sign of them being able to do more than a player on much better team who feeds off what is put on a plate for them by their QB and scheme.

    As I said earlier, the Top 100 is a mess but the examples that have been given as to why don't hold any water to me. People are always going to have issues with completely subjective lists that are designed to get clicks, they are best to be ignored.


  • #3035
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's accepted almost universally that Brady is the GOAT, he doesn't get marked down anymore.

    It’s impossible to argue convincingly that he is not the GOAT given all that he has achieved but I still hear various commentators and fans put a sneaky asterisk next to his career due to the infrastructure he has had around him throughout.

    IIRC Brady himself stated not long ago that if Aaron Rogers played in a Belichick scheme he would throw for 7000 yards a season. I do think Brady was lucky to land where he landed, allowing him to play under a genius who knew how to get every ounce of productivity from him his entire career. He made the most of the opportunity though and has proven himself over and over.


  • #3036
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The_Honeybadger wrote:
    It’s impossible to argue convincingly that he is not the GOAT given all that he has achieved but I still hear various commentators and fans put a sneaky asterisk next to his career due to the infrastructure he has had around him throughout.
    No you don't hear various, you hear the odd CONTRARIAN commentator do this. The guy just trying something else to keep himself in the news.


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  • #3037
    Jody Smoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Jody Smoke


    There is no such thing as the GOAT in American football performance of players are far too under the influence of factors other than themselves that to have even close to a reasonable consensus around it is impossible.

    There is no sport in the world where being on the right team with the right coaches makes such a difference to how good or bad a player is as is the case in American football.


  • #3038
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    eagle eye wrote: »
    No you don't hear various, you hear the odd CONTRARIAN commentator do this. The guy just trying something else to keep himself in the news.

    Whatever way you want to phrase it the theory is not without some merit. If Brady had been drafted by another team his career would be viewed very differently I suspect. That is not to take away from what he has done, that second half SB comeback v the falcons a few years back is an example of how incredibly good he is. I don’t think any other QB could have done it and I don’t think anybody could claim it was to do with the system or scheme. In the most pressured situation imaginable he completely nailed it.

    My own view is that he and Bill have benefited immensely from each other. It will be interesting to see what happens if Brady retires and Belichick stays on with the Pats.


  • #3039
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    The_Honeybadger wrote: »
    IIRC Brady himself stated not long ago that if Aaron Rogers played in a Belichick scheme he would throw for 7000 yards a season.
    Brady is 29-3 against Buffalo (most ever by a quarterback against a single team), and he'll still talk the Bills up when they play them. Being largely humble and talking up the opposition is the norm for him :)
    Had Rodgers played for Belichick would he rein himself in for the program like Brady has done? No real way to tell, but I doubt it; can't see them having lasted for almost two decades together.

    The "if he'd been drafted by another team' or 'if he didn't have Belichick' or 'if he didn't have Gronk, Moss....' etc, has all been repeated. The fact is he did have those people around him, just like anyone else has had their benefits (like Montana-Rice). Brady has the stats, the records, the wins, the rings and we've seen him do it time and time again on the field (in an age when all games are covered). People don't have to have him as their GOAT, but his achievements are unquestionable.


  • #3040
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Brady is 29-3 against Buffalo (most ever by a quarterback against a single team), and he'll still talk the Bills up when they play them. Being largely humble and talking up the opposition is the norm for him :)
    Had Rodgers played for Belichick would he rein himself in for the program like Brady has done? No real way to tell, but I doubt it; can't see them having lasted for almost two decades together.

    The "if he'd been drafted by another team' or 'if he didn't have Belichick' or 'if he didn't have Gronk, Moss....' etc, has all been repeated. The fact is he did have those people around him, just like anyone else has had their benefits (like Montana-Rice). Brady has the stats, the records, the wins, the rings and we've seen him do it time and time again on the field (in an age when all games are covered). People don't have to have him as their GOAT, but his achievements are unquestionable.

    Yes I think we are agreeing for the most part. I think he landed in the perfect spot and made the most of it.

    I do agree Rogers and some others probably wouldn’t work for the Pats as they would want to run the show. That is one thing I love about Brady, if it benefits the team he will hand the ball off forty times a game and check down the rest, but he can make any throw if needed as well. He is a true team player.

    As a Steelers fan Ben drives me crazy at times trying to be this gunslinger QB. It leads to errors and interceptions that are mostly avoidable.


  • #3041
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    Two year extension for Brady.
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001038951/article/tom-brady-agrees-to-contract-extension-with-patriots
    Still not sure he'll be playing at 45, but if there's one guy that can do it......


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  • #3042
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    Two year extension for Brady.
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001038951/article/tom-brady-agrees-to-contract-extension-with-patriots
    Still not sure he'll be playing at 45, but if there's one guy that can do it......

    He won’t need to ask Jezel for pocket money anymore.


  • #3043
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The_Honeybadger wrote:
    Whatever way you want to phrase it the theory is not without some merit. If Brady had been drafted by another team his career would be viewed very differently I suspect. That is not to take away from what he has done, that second half SB comeback v the falcons a few years back is an example of how incredibly good he is. I don’t think any other QB could have done it and I don’t think anybody could claim it was to do with the system or scheme. In the most pressured situation imaginable he completely nailed it.

    My own view is that he and Bill have benefited immensely from each other. It will be interesting to see what happens if Brady retires and Belichick stays on with the Pats.
    If Brady walked a different way on a golf course when he was a kid he could have been hit by a golf ball and died and he'd never have been the GOAT of American football.


  • #3044
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    eagle eye wrote: »
    If Brady walked a different way on a golf course when he was a kid he could have been hit by a golf ball and died and he'd never have been the GOAT of American football.

    Will leave it there bud. Not much point discussing anything with someone who resorts to childishness and calls anybody that doesn’t agree with everything they say contrarians.


  • #3045
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The_Honeybadger wrote:
    Will leave it there bud. Not much point discussing anything with someone who resorts to childishness and calls anybody that doesn’t agree with everything they say contrarians.
    Yeah, well you are contrarian if you think there is merit in any suggestion that Brady is not the GOAT. Simple as.
    I don't know whether it's that you dislike the Patriots or are jealous of the GOAT.


  • #3046
    OOnegative
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,827 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yeah, well you are contrarian if you think there is merit in any suggestion that Brady is not the GOAT. Simple as.
    I don't know whether it's that you dislike the Patriots or are jealous of the GOAT.

    Take your tongue out of Brady’s ass dude seriously, your name Bill Belichick by any chance!! Get over yourself.


  • #3047
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    OOnegative wrote:
    Take your tongue out of Brady’s ass dude seriously, your name Bill Belichick by any chance!! Get over yourself.
    I'm the realist here. Anybody even sneakily suggesting there might be a question mark about Brady's legacy is either clueless or a hater.


  • #3048
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    There is no question mark over Tom Brady’s legacy. His records are there to see. The debate arises from the fact that his achievements are intertwined with his coach to a degree that we haven’t seen in any team or sport probably ever. It’s a completely unique set of circumstances. One would not work without the other IMO. He is the goat though. It’s ridiculous how consistently good he is, and his performance in clutch situations.


  • #3049
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,929 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The_Honeybadger wrote:
    There is no question mark over Tom Brady’s legacy. His records are there to see. The debate arises from the fact that his achievements are intertwined with his coach to a degree that we haven’t seen in any team or sport probably ever. It’s a completely unique set of circumstances. One would not work without the other IMO. He is the goat though. It’s ridiculous how consistently good he is, and his performance in clutch situations.
    Michael Jordan never won an NBA title without Phil Jackson, neither did Kobe Bryant, Joe Montana won three Superbowls under Bill Walsh and then one under George Seifert, in the first year of Walsh's retirement, who was defensive co-ordinator for the first three. Terry Bradshaw never won a Superbowl without Chuck Noll.


  • #3050
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Not long now. And we can start to argue about on the field stuff as opposed to the content fillers like the top 10 linebackers in 7 years time that have been filling the websites and podcasts for the past 6 months.


  • #3051
    The_Honeybadger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,246 ✭✭✭The_Honeybadger


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Michael Jordan never won an NBA title without Phil Jackson, neither did Kobe Bryant, Joe Montana won three Superbowls under Bill Walsh and then one under George Seifert, in the first year of Walsh's retirement, who was defensive co-ordinator for the first three. Terry Bradshaw never won a Superbowl without Chuck Noll.

    Basketball isn’t a fair comparison, it’s a sport where one star player can utterly dominate. The others were won within shorter windows with great teams, that Pittsburgh D line had as much to do with those wins than Noll or Bradshaw for example. Noll had little success before or after, when the team broke up that was that.

    None had the longevity or turnover of players that the Pats have had, yet they have appeared in half the SB’s since 2000! Belichick is by far the biggest factor in this sustained success imo. His roster construction, cap management, game management and schemes are just better than everyone else. He is the best there ever was and it’s not even close.

    I have already stated multiple times how good Brady is so I won’t go in to that again.

    If that view makes me a clueless hater in your eyes so be it. I won’t lose any sleep over it.


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  • #3052
    BizzyC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,012 ✭✭✭BizzyC


    I think that you can look at any sport where a player stands out as the GOAT, and there will always be some level of fortune surrounding their circumstances that gave them benefit.

    Would Brady be one of the great QB's without Bill, yes I think he would.
    Would Bill be one of the great Coaches without Tom, yes I think he would.

    Would either have 6 SB rings without each other, no I don't think they would.

    I think the best analogy from other sports is actually F1 rather then traditional team sports.

    The best driver on the circuit paired with a good car might win the championship.
    A good driver with the best car might win the championship.
    If you pair the best driver with the best car, only then do you start to see repeated success and discussions of all-time greatness.


  • #3053
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    jack presley wrote: »
    Not long now. And we can start to argue about on the field stuff as opposed to the content fillers like the top 10 linebackers in 7 years time that have been filling the websites and podcasts for the past 6 months.

    But I want to know the top five sixth round draft picks in the AFC.... :(


  • #3054
    Adamcp898
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,477 ✭✭✭Adamcp898


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    But I want to know the top five sixth round draft picks in the AFC.... :(

    “Number 1 will surprise you”


  • #3055
    Salt Lake Stallion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Salt Lake Stallion


    Apparently Antonio Brown got his feet frostbitten because he didn't wear the correct footwear during a cryotherapy session. Has to be the most unusual injury I've heard of in the NFL, cannot believe a professional athlete could make such a mistake.


  • #3056
    jack presley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,687 ✭✭✭✭jack presley


    Salt Lake Stallion wrote: »
    Apparently Antonio Brown got his feet frostbitten because he didn't wear the correct footwear during a cryotherapy session. Has to be the most unusual injury I've heard of in the NFL, cannot believe a professional athlete could make such a mistake.

    Unusual for an NFL injury maybe, but has nothing on MLB injuries!

    https://www.mlb.com/news/weirdest-injuries-in-baseball-history-c269951566

    Carl Frampton might have something to say about this as well

    https://www.si.com/boxing/2019/08/06/carl-frampton-freak-accident-broken-hand-emmanuel-dominguez


  • #3057
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,942 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    jack presley wrote: »
    Unusual for an NFL injury maybe, but has nothing on MLB injuries!

    https://www.mlb.com/news/weirdest-injuries-in-baseball-history-c269951566

    Carl Frampton might have something to say about this as well

    https://www.si.com/boxing/2019/08/06/carl-frampton-freak-accident-broken-hand-emmanuel-dominguez

    I remember Santiago Canizares missed a World Cup because a few days before it started, he dropped a bottle of aftershave in the bathroom and it smashed, with a piece of glass cutting open his foot.


  • #3058
    Shedite27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,613 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Salt Lake Stallion wrote: »
    Apparently Antonio Brown got his feet frostbitten because he didn't wear the correct footwear during a cryotherapy session. Has to be the most unusual injury I've heard of in the NFL, cannot believe a professional athlete could make such a mistake.
    The lad that got his in the eye with a penalty flag has to be up there.

    Then there was the punter/kicker who were having a dinner party with wives, fondue set fell over and scalded the both of them


  • #3059
    billr67
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 317 ✭✭billr67


    Salt Lake Stallion wrote: »
    Apparently Antonio Brown got his feet frostbitten because he didn't wear the correct footwear during a cryotherapy session. Has to be the most unusual injury I've heard of in the NFL, cannot believe a professional athlete could make such a mistake.

    Karma's a bitch Go Steelers!


  • #3060
    Salt Lake Stallion
    Closed Accounts Posts: 89 ✭✭Salt Lake Stallion


    Shedite27 wrote: »
    The lad that got his in the eye with a penalty flag has to be up there.

    Then there was the punter/kicker who were having a dinner party with wives, fondue set fell over and scalded the both of them

    Those are pretty bad in fairness. Sound more like accidents though, AB's was completely avoidable. Can't fathom how he or the cryotherapy machine operator could allow such a thing to happen. Frostbitten on a skiing trip or something I could understand, but this is just dumb.


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  • #3061
    Guffy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,414 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Duke johnson to texans for a conditional 4th?


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