The glorious 12th

citytillidie · 21-07-2019 11:17am

RobMc59 wrote: »

The ira are still using the same tactics,hiding behind the public taking pot shots at the authorities-that`s how Lyra was murdered-what do you think her family think when they hear the ira saying it`s the PSNI`s fault for being there.
I`m not condoning what happened on bloody sunday in any way shape or form.
You probably have a fair bit to do with mainland British people-do you think we`re all crazed lunatics?There are bad apples in every society but that does`nt justify tarring everyone with the same brush.
I also stand by my assertion that the vast majority of British people think the prosecution of soldier F should only happen if the ira soldiers are also brought to justice.

Not condoning It but ok with soldiers shooting people crawling on the ground or waving a white hanky. If the British government had not have covered up Bloody Sunday all those year ago then soldier f might have been brought to justice at the same time as ira members were

RobMc59 · 21-07-2019 11:21am

citytillidie wrote: »

Not condoning It but ok with soldiers shooting people crawling on the ground or waving a white hanky. If the British government had not have covered up Bloody Sunday all those year ago then soldier f might have been brought to justice at the same time as ira members were

Perhaps you`re right that they should have been brought to justice at the same time, would the soldiers have had the same treatment/amnesties the ira had?

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 11:25am

RobMc59 wrote: »

Perhaps you`re right that they should have been brought to justice at the same time, would the soldiers have had the same treatment/amnesties the ira had?

Soldiers in the British Army where getting amnesties long before the GFA. Lee Clegg for instance, convicted in '93 - free in '95.

Private Ian Thain convicted in '84 - freed in 87.

Scots Guards, Mark Wright and James Fisher convicted in '95 - free in '98

Sofiztikated · 21-07-2019 11:29am

Getting away from the Ussuns and Themmuns for a moment...

The pub I worked in on the 12th sold 145L of vodka, 19 kegs of Tennants, 21 pints of Guinness, and 40L of pink gin.

80 odd cases of Red Bull used as mixers.

RobMc59 · 21-07-2019 11:38am

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Getting away from the Ussuns and Themmuns for a moment...

The pub I worked in on the 12th sold 145L of vodka, 19 kegs of Tennants, 21 pints of Guinness, and 40L of pink gin.

80 odd cases of Red Bull used as mixers.

There must have been a lot of people waking up upside down behind the telly the next morning with sore heads!

citytillidie · 21-07-2019 11:58am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Soldiers in the British Army where getting amnesties long before the GFA. Lee Clegg for instance, convicted in '93 - free in '95.

Private Ian Thain convicted in '84 - freed in 87.

Scots Guards, Mark Wright and James Fisher convicted in '95 - free in '98

And right back into the army in some cases

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 12:00pm

citytillidie wrote: »

And right back into the army in some cases

All of those were allowed to rejoin. As far as I know.

And we have people on here still positing the theory that the British were interested in justice

downcow · 21-07-2019 12:20pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Not condoning It but ok with soldiers shooting people crawling on the ground or waving a white hanky. If the British government had not have covered up Bloody Sunday all those year ago then soldier f might have been brought to justice at the same time as ira members were

Bit the ira weren’t. MMcG was running around with a machine gun attempting to murder people and he was not prosecuted

_blaaz · 21-07-2019 12:22pm

downcow wrote: »

Now who is ither unaware of the facts or delibertely misrepresenting the situation.
It is impossible that aiden n mcanespie was murdered never mind someone convicted.
The bullet that killed him recosheyed of the road some distance from him. It was def not aimed at him so can’t be murder.
We can argue about whether the soldiers wet hands led to an accidental misfire or whether he was playing silly games. Either way it was not murder.

Mate the PSNI basically said army lied and that version of events was so unlikely to have happened that it could be discounted....its little suprise an orangeman would try pedel this gaslighting nonsense as reasonable arguement

Hence why a chap has been charged with that killing

_blaaz · 21-07-2019 12:25pm

downcow wrote: »

Bit the ira weren’t. MMcG was running around with a machine gun attempting to murder people and he was not prosecuted

Your going to have get the over the fact that dead people cant be prosecuted....you sounding irrational ranting about it

downcow · 21-07-2019 12:26pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a pity the British public didn't see that only 4 soldiers charged and found guilty of murder during the entire conflict.

Francie I am still waiting for some evidence for this spin and nonsense. You can’t go post untrue stats and then ignore requests for evidence.
I see none of you mates are backing you up on this one as they know it’s nonsense

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 12:46pm

downcow wrote: »

Francie I am still waiting for some evidence for this spin and nonsense. You can’t go post untrue stats and then ignore requests for evidence.
I see none of you mates are backing you up on this one as they know it’s nonsense

Quoted here:

Only four soldiers were convicted of murder while on duty in Northern Ireland. All were released after serving two or three years of life sentences and allowed to rejoin the Army.[30][31]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner#cite_note-30

If you look at 30 - 31 you can see the sources for the claim.

30. McGovern, Mark. "Ignatieff, Ireland and the 'lesser evil'", in Discourses and Practices of Terrorism. Routledge, 2010. p.145
31. The Apparatus of Impunity. Human rights violations and the Northern Ireland conflict. Committee on the Administration of Justice,

If you know different you can always present your evidence. I recommend you read source 31 there too, might open your eyes, which seen determined to remain shut.

downcow · 21-07-2019 1:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quoted here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Banner#cite_note-30

If you look at 30 - 31 you can see the sources for the claim.

30. McGovern, Mark. "Ignatieff, Ireland and the 'lesser evil'", in Discourses and Practices of Terrorism. Routledge, 2010. p.145
31. The Apparatus of Impunity. Human rights violations and the Northern Ireland conflict. Committee on the Administration of Justice,

If you know different you can always present your evidence. I recommend you read source 31 there too, might open your eyes, which seen determined to remain shut.

Yes I do know different. I have warned you before about trusting Wikipedia. Just the other day you were using it to claim Arlene was a member of the OO.
When you made your latest claim about only 4 members of BA ever being convicted I thought that’s strange I know of many more than that just in my head.
So hear are 4 for starters just to add to the 4 you mention.
Life sentences for murder, served time only to be found the the “orange RUC” had stitched them up.
Anyway just retract and add to the growing list of stuff you’ve spun or misbelieved
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uproar-as-court-releases-three-of-udr-four-1536401.html%3famp

citytillidie · 21-07-2019 1:26pm

downcow wrote: »

Bit the ira weren’t. MMcG was running around with a machine gun attempting to murder people and he was not prosecuted

Again if the investigation had not of been white washed in the 1st place things may have been much different.

At the time the IRA were struggling for support in Derry then bloody Sunday happened and that night drove up the recruitment.

Report says Martin McGuiness probably had a Thompson gun. And was not running around as you claim

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/bloody-sunday/martin-mcguinness-cleared-by-bloody-sunday-saville-probe-28541699.html

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 1:32pm

downcow wrote: »

Yes I do know different. I have warned you before about trusting Wikipedia. Just the other day you were using it to claim Arlene was a member of the OO.
When you made your latest claim about only 4 members of BA ever being convicted I thought that’s strange I know of many more than that just in my head.
So hear are 4 for starters just to add to the 4 you mention.
Life sentences for murder, served time only to be found the the “orange RUC” had stitched them up.
Anyway just retract and add to the growing list of stuff you’ve spun or misbelieved
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uproar-as-court-releases-three-of-udr-four-1536401.html%3famp

The study of the locally recruited security/paramilitary force that was the UDR is a whole other field. Like it or not the UDR was seen as distinct from the BA by us nationalists.

And btw, you still haven't provided any evidence to show Arlene was not a 'committed member of the OO'.

downcow · 21-07-2019 2:16pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The study of the locally recruited security/paramilitary force that was the UDR is a whole other field. Like it or not the UDR was seen as distinct from the BA by us nationalists.

And btw, you still haven't provided any evidence to show Arlene was not a 'committed member of the OO'.

Francie you’re at your work. You said only 4 BA convictions. Now you want to exclude the largest regiment in the BA lol

We have discussed the difficulties in proving evidence for something that does not exist. Same reason you have been unable to provide evidence that Gerry Adams is not in the kkk

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 2:28pm

downcow wrote: »

Francie you’re at your work. You said only 4 BA convictions. Now you want to exclude the largest regiment in the BA lol

We have discussed the difficulties in proving evidence for something that does not exist. Same reason you have been unable to provide evidence that Gerry Adams is not in the kkk

Are you ever going to deal with the points made or continue to shoot the various messengers?

The British have never excercised 'justice for all' in Ireland. The routinely covered up their actions and protected killers in their Army. An army that was a player in the conflict and was far from an impartial force.

*Even after your 'phonecall', I see Arlene has not seen fit to alter her Wiki page. So as of now, 'she was a commited member of the order'. If you can refute that, please do. Your word, or details of your phone conversations doesn't warrant proof sadly.

If you have no comment to make on the point I made, don't be bothering me, I am watching the golf and the GAA. Busy.

citytillidie · 21-07-2019 2:29pm

downcow wrote: »

Francie you’re at your work. You said only 4 BA convictions. Now you want to exclude the largest regiment in the BA lol

We have discussed the difficulties in proving evidence for something that does not exist. Same reason you have been unable to provide evidence that Gerry Adams is not in the kkk

Well since the KKK is a white Protestant group you can be sure Gerry Adams would not be in it

downcow · 21-07-2019 2:39pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Well since the KKK is a white Protestant group you can be sure Gerry Adams would not be in it

Unfortunately following francie rules, I can’t take your word for it I need proof

I know it’s ridiculous but that is how ridiculous France has got in the defence of the undefeceless.
UDR not part of the BA. Lol

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 2:48pm

downcow wrote: »

Unfortunately following francie rules, I can’t take your word for it I need proof

I know it’s ridiculous but that is how ridiculous France has got in the defence of the undefeceless.
UDR not part of the BA. Lol

The UDR and RUC were implicated in many killings in northern Ireland, one report puts the estimate at 74
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-british-army-linked-to-74-murders-1.1025563

They are a unit onto themselves and always seen as separate to the BA as a whole by nationalists. I think by the end the BA were happy to as well.

But include them in your answer to the point by all means. knock yourself out.

*Watch the 'messenger' getting shot again. :rolleyes:

downcow · 21-07-2019 3:06pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UDR and RUC were implicated in many killings in northern Ireland, one report puts the estimate at 74
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ruc-british-army-linked-to-74-murders-1.1025563

They are a unit onto themselves and always seen as separate to the BA as a whole by nationalists. I think by the end the BA were happy to as well.

But include them in your answer to the point by all means. knock yourself out.

*Watch the 'messenger' getting shot again. :rolleyes:

Francie this again took a long time but I assume that is you retracting your statement that in 4 members of the BA were convicted of murder

RobMc59 · 21-07-2019 3:08pm

downcow wrote: »

Unfortunately following francie rules, I can’t take your word for it I need proof

I know it’s ridiculous but that is how ridiculous France has got in the defence of the undefeceless.
UDR not part of the BA. Lol

Without anyone even trying,francie has been "shot down in a blaze of glory!"....by himself once again!The UDR WAS a part of the BA-he`ll probably say it`s a lie like he says about everything that does`nt fit in with the waffle he dreams up!:rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Regiment

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 3:12pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Without anyone even trying,francie has been "shot down in a blaze of glory!"....by himself once again!The UDR WAS a part of the BA-he`ll probably say it`s a lie like he says about everything that does`nt fit in with the waffle he dreams up!:rolleyes:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Regiment

Rob, you too. Include the UDR if you wish, I'm all for it.
Now can you guys address the point made?

The British have never excercised 'justice for all' in Ireland. The routinely covered up their actions and protected killers in their Army. An army that was a player in the conflict and was far from an impartial force.

Anyone would think youse had vindicated the British Army. Including the locally recruited battalion only makes the figures worse.

blanch152 · 21-07-2019 3:47pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The study of the locally recruited security/paramilitary force that was the UDR is a whole other field. Like it or not the UDR was seen as distinct from the BA by us nationalists.

And btw, you still haven't provided any evidence to show Arlene was not a 'committed member of the OO'.

Once again you are applying double standards.

You have never provided any evidence to show that Gerry Adams was not Commander-in-Chief of the IRA and ordered countless atrocities, including a number of the disappeared. Yet, whenever anyone posts an accusation like that, you rush to his defence.

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 3:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Once again you are applying double standards.

You have never provided any evidence to show that Gerry Adams was not Commander-in-Chief of the IRA and ordered countless atrocities, including a number of the disappeared. Yet, whenever anyone posts an accusation like that, you rush to his defence.

I don't actually.

As you know I rely on the courts and a jury to decide guilt. You have the arrogance to adjudicate on these things and have in the past, invariably finding against the republican accused. In fact you'd be site-famous for doing it.

Why dafuq would there be any onus on me to provide 'evidence' that he wasn't chief in command?

You and others have made the accusations, away you go and supply the evidence.

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 3:58pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Well since the KKK is a white Protestant group you can be sure Gerry Adams would not be in it

I think the Ulster -Scots might have cornered that particular association stateside.

downcow · 21-07-2019 4:46pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the Ulster -Scots might have cornered that particular association stateside.

....And some evidence of your latest claim?

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 4:52pm

downcow wrote: »

....And some evidence of your latest claim?

I said 'association' remember, so if you google Gerry Adams and the KKK, you get no association, but if you google Ulster-Scots and the KKK you get plenty making an association, so judge for yourself taking in behaviours and history etc etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ulster+scots+and+the+KKK&oq=ulster+scots+and+the+KKK&aqs=chrome..69i57.12055j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

RobMc59 · 21-07-2019 5:06pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

downcow wrote: »

....And some evidence of your latest claim?

I said 'association' remember, so if you google Gerry Adams and the KKK, you get no association, but if you google Ulster-Scots and the KKK you get plenty making an association, so judge for yourself taking in behaviours and history etc etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ulster+scots+and+the+KKK&oq=ulster+scots+and+the+KKK&aqs=chrome..69i57.12055j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Give over now francie ive just missed a Kerrys goal cos of you distracting me

FrancieBrady · 21-07-2019 5:20pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

Give over now francie ive just missed a Kerrys goal cos of you distracting me

Just proving that there is more of an association with the Ulster Scots than there is Gerry Adams.

Maybe downcow shouldn't have been calling attention to it.

'mon the Ulster boys btw!

The glorious 12th

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