Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Tenger wrote: »

Bit of a stretch to say the CEO mentioned LAS in my opinion. No actual quote about LAS, just the journalist inferring it.
But it is true that Vegas has previously been mentioned as in the shortlist of 15-20 cities that EI are looking at.


.....Aer Lingus has also previously identified cities including Denver, Las Vegas and Vancouver as potential destinations.
............................
Doyle says his sense is that cities such as Denver and Las Vegas would require wide-body aircraft.
"I think they're big markets and there seems to be growing demand there, so they would be in the framework of what we're evaluating at the minute," he adds.
"The A330 works very, very well on the west coast markets," says the chief executive. It is also used on routes to New York and Boston.

He is well rehearsed, throwing out DEN, LAS both not been considered as far as I know although DEN would be an excellent addition.

cson wrote: »

DEN will happen. It's a huge airport (64m pax per year) yet only has ~6 direct European routes.

It's only so big because of Frontier, Southwest, and United. If the AA JV goes through I wouldn't be so sure you'll see it, especially given the hot and high conditions I don't know if an XLR would be able to do it (and arguably these conditions are part of why there are so few transatlantic routes to begin with).

Tenger wrote: »

Moving the LRs onto lower demand East Cast routes frees up the A332 to operate into some new airports.

2 new A330s coming over the winter. Lets say 1 covers extra SEA/SFO flights, the other covers the DUB-LAX route being upguaged.
Thus there is a 'spare' A332 to be allocated somewhere. Introducing the A321LRs next summer could 'free up' another A332 again.
There's more capacity if the rumoured ex-Jet Airways aircraft make it here (although this talk of not enough staff could be an issue)

Which routes do you think are low demand and would be downgraded? And does that include older -200s being retired? If EWR goes and if LAX goes too then the two frames are taken up, the ex-Jet frames seem far from certain.

Wouldn't DEN need a crew rest too?

Any prospect of a premium economy product ? Trend on long haul seems to be to squash even more seats in to back (going 10 across on 777) and add premium economy.

Due to my co travel policy I’ll continue to connect to the US until EI offers PE.

Tenger wrote: »

I dont think the older -200s will leave the fleet before 2021. I think we will see a replacement order announced within 18 months.
But who knows, with 10 new aircraft due for delivery before Q3 2020 we may see a leased A332 depart in late 2020?


Not sure on 'low demand' routes to be honest. Hard to know from the outside. I think DC, Toronto and Orlando are mostly -200 routes.
Can the A321LR reach Orlando, thus allowing a daily flight? This could suit EI sales more than the current 4x weekly. I doubt they carry much cargo on that route?
Maybe replace a BOS/JFK rotation with 2 A321LR to offer 3 departures a day?

Quite a bit of cargo on MIA, not sure about MCO.

Mostly cruise ships, retail goods from Europe going west and topping up ships that are over here with supplies from home.

The A321LR is no good for freight it barely has enough space for the bags due the ACT's taking up a huge amount of space in the hold.

Don't read -200 as low volume routes, it more about best use of the hull, two of the -200, GEY and EWR are not fitted for crew rest so are stuck on East coast ops.

EI currently only have 2 A330-300 HGW with crew rest so can only run SFO as -300, with 2 more coming LAX will be upped to -300

I'd bet on double daily A321 IAD or PHL to try to grow the market and improve connection options, only route that could make sense, the volumes on JFK, BOS and ORD leave you with no choice but A330

Lets say you have 8 A321's
1 spare in DUB, which actually are running LHR/CDG/FRA/AMS in the evening
1 BDL (+LHR)
1 MSP (+CDG)
2 PHL (+FRA/AMS)
1 IAD (+BRU?)
1 SNN/BOS (+LHR)
1 SNN/JFK

Thats an insane level of flying for a hull, bean counters will love it, but you would need a notional hull on the ground as backup

alancostello wrote: »

It's only so big because of Frontier, Southwest, and United. If the AA JV goes through I wouldn't be so sure you'll see it, especially given the hot and high conditions I don't know if an XLR would be able to do it (and arguably these conditions are part of why there are so few transatlantic routes to begin with).

I do think it will happen even with AA JV but I don't believe it's on the cards next year.

I'd bet on double daily A321 IAD or PHL to try to grow the market and improve connection options, only route that could make sense, the volumes on JFK, BOS and ORD leave you with no choice but A330

I would bet on JFK/BOS/EWR getting an extra daily service with A321LR before IAD/PHL.

Will be interesting to see if JFK day time flight resumes next year.

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus essentially provides a 'build your own' premium economy on long haul, if you purchase an extra legroom seat, a wifi package and upgrade your meal you've got the basics of most premium economy products for a generally lower price. 

As for actually adding a true premium economy product, it would require some careful calculations as it would likely come at the cost of a number of economy seats and risk weakening business class yields. I fully expected the A350s to feature a premium economy cabin mainly due to the additional floor space they come with but that's unlikely now.

Respectfully disagree.

If you package up an economy ticket with what you've described you get at best PE light. If you look at what AA and BA have in their PE offerings the hard product is really good, effectively a US3 domestic first seat with a larger IFE screen and power points (key if you want to use a laptop) in addition to the meal being served on china (not sure if EI do this with meal upgrades?), and complimentary beer/wine/spirits. You can't compare the two.

PE is where yield growth will come from in the future imo. It's J class light for folks that can't afford J class but want a more comfortable travel experience.

cson wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Lingus essentially provides a 'build your own' premium economy on long haul, if you purchase an extra legroom seat, a wifi package and upgrade your meal you've got the basics of most premium economy products for a generally lower price. 

As for actually adding a true premium economy product, it would require some careful calculations as it would likely come at the cost of a number of economy seats and risk weakening business class yields. I fully expected the A350s to feature a premium economy cabin mainly due to the additional floor space they come with but that's unlikely now.

Respectfully disagree.

If you package up an economy ticket with what you've described you get at best PE light. If you look at what AA and BA have in their PE offerings the hard product is really good, effectively a US3 domestic first seat with a larger IFE screen and power points (key if you want to use a laptop) in addition to the meal being served on china (not sure if EI do this with meal upgrades?), and complimentary beer/wine/spirits. You can't compare the two.

PE is where yield growth will come from in the future imo. It's J class light for folks that can't afford J class but want a more comfortable travel experience.

I did say the Aer Lingus add ons achieve the basics of premium economy, not the full experience; the extra room, better meal which is indeed served on china with wine, wifi and a seat in the forward cabin. Aer Lingus also has power outlets in economy. Obviously you can't get all the bells and whistles of a true premium product but you get close enough for a usually lower price. 

Having flown BA World Traveller Plus just a few months back and quite regularly in the past, it really isn't anything special in comparison to the 'build your own' premium economy you can achieve with Aer Lingus. The IFE screen was the same size, the meal was actually of poorer quality, size and presentation and there was no free wifi or much else for that matter. Even the breakfast just consisted of a protein bar, if you want tea you need to ask for it. The only clear advantages would be the bigger seat, the additional tier points and priority boarding. Granted, BA is probably the weakest in the premium economy market but even so, the others aren't exactly leaps and bounds ahead. 

I agree with you about it being a great future revenue generator, it's considered a sweet spot between economy and business and there are definitely people out there willing to pay more for it, myself included, but in terms of value it's not always the best option especially when an airline like Aer Lingus offers so many add ons to its own economy that it replicates the basics for a fraction of the price. 

That's not to say I don't think Aer Lingus will offer it, just that it needs to be justified and carefully calculated. The question is will the additional revenue from a premium economy cover the cost of removing an average of two economy rows and a hit on business yields when floor space on the A330 is already maxed out.

I'm open to correction here, but I thought FNG & FNH were both the 242t HGW variant, just without crew rests? As such they're flown de-rated to save on handling costs (ATC charge more the heavier the aircraft, as do airports).

HTCOne wrote: »

I'm open to correction here, but I thought FNG & FNH were both the 242t HGW variant, just without crew rests? As such they're flown de-rated to save on handling costs (ATC charge more the heavier the aircraft, as do airports).

Correct

Bussywussy wrote: »

Economy class for cabin crew,its only in worst case scenario to avoid a cancellation etc..the LDMCR will be fitted in november all going to plan.

Has to have parallel rest for crew to west coast e.g ldmcr otherwise business class has to be empty and used as a rest area. Economy class isn't suitable

Karl8415 wrote: »

I think what EI have done with having FNG/FNH de-rated is to give them options should they require frames to travel longer distances in the future so instead of having to source additional frames to join the fleet they’ll just have these 2 up-rated which in turn gives them the extra 9T MTOW,having said that if I’m not mistaken I think the 2 new 300’s that are joining soon will enter the fleet at 242T and I think I’ve read somewhere recently that it’s rumored that the reg on both will be EI-EIM and EI-EIN

Agonisingly close to EI-EIO.

EchoIndia wrote: »

Which has already been used.https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/view/1022616/

Oh right, I thought I read here before that it was never taken.

kevinandrew wrote: »

I did say the Aer Lingus add ons achieve the basics of premium economy, not the full experience; the extra room, better meal which is indeed served on china with wine, wifi and a seat in the forward cabin. Aer Lingus also has power outlets in economy. Obviously you can't get all the bells and whistles of a true premium product but you get close enough for a usually lower price. 

Having flown BA World Traveller Plus just a few months back and quite regularly in the past, it really isn't anything special in comparison to the 'build your own' premium economy you can achieve with Aer Lingus. The IFE screen was the same size, the meal was actually of poorer quality, size and presentation and there was no free wifi or much else for that matter. Even the breakfast just consisted of a protein bar, if you want tea you need to ask for it. The only clear advantages would be the bigger seat, the additional tier points and priority boarding. Granted, BA is probably the weakest in the premium economy market but even so, the others aren't exactly leaps and bounds ahead. 

I agree with you about it being a great future revenue generator, it's considered a sweet spot between economy and business and there are definitely people out there willing to pay more for it, myself included, but in terms of value it's not always the best option especially when an airline like Aer Lingus offers so many add ons to its own economy that it replicates the basics for a fraction of the price. 

That's not to say I don't think Aer Lingus will offer it, just that it needs to be justified and carefully calculated. The question is will the additional revenue from a premium economy cover the cost of removing an average of two economy rows and a hit on business yields when floor space on the A330 is already maxed out.

The value in PE for me is the wider seat and armrests. None of the EI lipstick on a pig stuff has much value for me. The PE seat on American is very good and for a daytime flight I don’t feel like I’m missing out much not being in J. The mini cabin too makes it all a bit quieter and more pleasant.