DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Huzzah! · 10-07-2019 9:54pm

kyomi wrote: »

Sorry for the late reply - yes I suspect it was entirely down to having to run more slowly than I'm used to. I didn't feel that tired either during or after the run, it was more a feeling that I wasn't really getting anywhere. I felt like my running form was affected too and that my feet were nearly dragging on the ground. During the faster parts of the run (the bits that weren't hills) I felt fine and that I could keep going for much longer.

Hopefully, as my aerobic fitness improves, my heart rate won't suffer so much from having to go up hills and I'll be able to take them at a more normal sort of pace. To be honest, I probably could've just ignored my heart rate and sped up to my normal LSR pace (around 10:30), given that I was only a mile or two from home, and that's probably what I'll do the next time. Otherwise I could be looking at going over the three-hour mark well before I get to the really long runs.

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a hydration or fuelling issue. Does the lore of running have anything on cardiac drift? It's not uncommon for the HR to rise near the end of a long run.

Huzzah! · 10-07-2019 9:58pm

cailineile wrote: »

Hi there

Ha Ha, I'm Irish through and through,

the plan is based on this book, bought it a few years ago, and found it good

https://www.amazon.com/Marathon-Method-16-Week-Training-Prepares/dp/1592332595#customerReviews

I'm luck session on Monday is with physio, Session on Wed is with PT ( ex military) so she holds me accountable, ( incidentally smashed it this morning, onto black box jumps now- I used to be scared of the blue ones- still can't do wooden, brain won't let me, fear of losing shins), and then the running session with group on thur is with physio( love what he does- even have tomorrow nights session and showed us how to program Garmin properly ( for laps) via WhatsApp earlier today. Friday is my day off, ( and I mean total rest), might mix up the long run on sat this week instead of Sunday, last week it was sun eve, when I did it and it was too hot, so up early at 6 on sat, get it done and it won't be hanging over me for the rest of the day....

Plan is attached, made a mess of the columns as I was reading it on iPad, and didn't realise my finger had moved it back to the half marathon page, so had to go again.

but its on the back of the kitchen door. and I like ticking it off ( sad but more satisfaction than an excel sheet )

Your handle gave you away. I think there was someone else posting from abroad too.

Plan looks okay. Make sure and keep your runs nice and easy. The PT sessions might have to be reduced as training progresses - keep an eye on how you feel.

Huzzah! · 10-07-2019 10:02pm

Sunday Runner wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

I'm very late to the party!

DCM 2019 will be my first marathon. I have been dabbling with the race series for a few years and not really taking it seriously at all. Last year I did the 10km race in 1hr 7 mins, but I did a 10km race a few weeks ago in 53 mins.

Currently running 4 times a week and averaging 36km a week. Last week I was knocked with a chest infection and had to take a few days off. I'm also strength training 4/5 days a week, doing a lot of heavy leg work and bench pressing etc.

Tonight I plan to do 10km and i'll do another 10km on Friday, a short 5km on Saturday and a long slow run on Sunday. I've been doing approx. 16-20km every other Sunday. If I can sustain this, will that be sufficient?

Nutrition wise i'm finding I need to up calories. I don't think i'm eating enough. I'm also going to start some gels this weekend and see how they go. Will be delighted with any nutrition advice on offer! :-)

Sunday Runner wrote: »

Oh I'm only seeing the questions now! Newbie error!

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
5km - PWC race relay, May 2019 - 23:57
Half Marathon Race Series 2018 - 2h 11 mins. 10km Race Series 2018 - 1 hr 7 mins.
10km - November 2018 53:51 (I don't race 10km very much)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? Not really no. I'll stop if I'm with friends, but I try not to.

How much training do you currently do ? 4 runs a week and i also do a lot of strength training. Minimum 4/5 sessions a week. I try to run on leg days which is a total killer, but meant to be great for strengthening the legs.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Sub 4 would be the bucket list dream.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? I'm trying to keep up with my gym sessions and fit the running around them, but I need to scale back a bit on the weights. Keen to tweak my training now and i'm pretty good with sticking to plans.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? Sheer determination will make me cross the line, but I want to put in a solid effort and get a decent time. I'm afraid of gels and my tummy giving in on me.

Why are you running this marathon? I was a supporter last year. I went up with my kids to cheer people on and the crowds and the runners were just incredible. People ran across the road to high-five my kids and accept jellies. The atmosphere was incredible. I was really upset with myself for not doing it! I had done a lot of training, but didn't commit to the ticket on time. Very respectful of the distance and I want to get my feet on that blue mat and cruise over the line!

It's certainly not too late to join in. You're very welcome. There's some time to come off that half time for sure. Take a look at the plans in the OP and see if one fits. I'd encourage you to the Boards plan, but it will require a fifth day running. Can you reduce your gym sessions until after the marathon?

kyomi · 10-07-2019 10:03pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a hydration or fuelling issue. Does the lore of running have anything on cardiac drift? It's not uncommon for the HR to rise near the end of a long run.

Good idea, I'll look it up!

Could also be a hydration issue I suppose - I had a bottle of water with a Zero tablet with me, but as it was such a hot day (Sunday) it mightn't have been enough.

Huzzah! · 10-07-2019 10:06pm

greentea is just wrong wrote: »

Hi All!

I'm also late to the party

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Only raced a few 5ks before (last year). PB - 28 mins 40 secs, I think.

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? I haven't really gone above 10k to date, but comfortable running that so far without breaks.

How much training do you currently do ? Aside from running - I'm in a strength training gym, do 1 hiit class a week, and then 2/3 strength classes (upper body, lower body) as well. thinking about changing this up, as the distances gets longer. not sure which to cut.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? Finishing injury free. Would love to make 4.30 if at all possible.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? I was following the training plan from June on the DCM site, and recently found this boards one, so trying to follow it now.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? The long distances, and completing in a reasonable time. Also, should I be doing speed work? Not incorporating this at all.

Why are you running this marathon? Bucketlist goal, and to prove I can, as I wouldn't view myself as a runner really traditionally. Also, attended the DCM last year, and thought the support was incredible.

I think you've arrived just in time - welcome! Take a look at the Hal Higdon plan posted in the OP. I think it might suit you. No need for speed work in training for your first marathon; let's focus on getting the miles under our belts.

Of the gym sessions, I would be inclined to drop HIIT and keeping one or two strength classes a week. Make sure you include a day off from all exercise, too.

Sunday Runner · 11-07-2019 10:46am

Huzzah! wrote: »

It's certainly not too late to join in. You're very welcome. There's some time to come off that half time for sure. Take a look at the plans in the OP and see if one fits. I'd encourage you to the Boards plan, but it will require a fifth day running. Can you reduce your gym sessions until after the marathon?

Thank you Huzzah! I had a look at both plans and i'd love to be able for the boards plan. Some amount of miles. I'll give it a shot for a week and see if it's doable for my schedule. I think you're right, I do need to drop a gym session and replace with a run.

Just one question - the 3/4 Marathon, specifically the one in Longwood on 6th October; is it too close to DCM? On the boards plan, it says 14m lsr that weekend.

Treviso · 11-07-2019 11:31am

Didn't think I would get as many miles in running while I'm away on holidays but have been out 3 times so far in 5 days. Thank god for kids clubs or else I wouldn't have any time.
My biggest dilemma is plotting the best route for my long run at the weekend - very hilly around the campsite. At least I'll be getting in a lot of hill training in while I'm away!

rainbow kirby · 11-07-2019 11:35am

The question with those events is always whether you can trust yourself not to race them! 3 weeks before is a broadly standard time for the longest long run.

Unknownability · 11-07-2019 12:12pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

The question with those events is always whether you can trust yourself not to race them! 3 weeks before is a broadly standard time for the longest long run.

Same, originally I was going to do it but looking at it now its just to close.

The temptation to take off to fast could be too much.

Singer · 11-07-2019 1:29pm

rainbow kirby wrote: »

The question with those events is always whether you can trust yourself not to race them! 3 weeks before is a broadly standard time for the longest long run.

There are pacers at the 3/4 marathon for a bunch of the popular times who run at a suitably slower pace:

http://irish3quartermarathon.ie/faq/

Pacers will be running at approx 105% of the 3.00, 3.30, 4.00 and 4.30 Hour MARATHON Pace.

We’re pacing 5% slower than your marathon pace to make sure you don’t empty the tank on this event which should be treated as preparation race for DCM.

I've done it twice and would recommend it. It's great for a full dress rehearsal. You absolutely have to not race it though!

Djoucer · 11-07-2019 1:47pm

Unknownability wrote: »

Same, originally I was going to do it but looking at it now its just to close.

The temptation to take off to fast could be too much.

The whole point of 3/4 is that it’s not a race and you treat it as a long run. That’s the sole reason it exists is to prepare for DCM.

It’s the ideal dress rehearsal. The pacers run at a pace suitable for your target DCM time.

DBB · 11-07-2019 1:50pm

Singer wrote: »

There are pacers at the 3/4 marathon for a bunch of the popular times who run at a suitably slower pace:

http://irish3quartermarathon.ie/faq/

I've done it twice and would recommend it. It's great for a full dress rehearsal. You absolutely have to not race it though!

Thanks for that info singer, I'm in for the Longwood three-quarters too, it'll be my longest lsr.
I just want to check now, I'm not doing the Dublin Race Series 10km on Sunday week, but there is a local 10 mile race hereabouts on the same day. I did the Clontarf HM last weekend and had been following the HHN1 HM plan for it. The HHN1 plan I'm following schedules a 10mile lsr the following weekend.
Should I do that 10 mile race on the 21st? Or not

ReeReeG · 11-07-2019 1:52pm

DBB wrote:

Thanks for that info singer, I'm in for the Longwood three-quarters too, it'll be my longest lsr. I just want to check now, I'm not doing the Dublin Race Series 10km on Sunday week, but there is a local 10 mile race hereabouts on the same day. I did the Clontarf HM last weekend and had been following the HHN1 HM plan for it. The HHN1 plan I'm following schedules a 10mile lsr the following weekend. Should I do that 10 mile race on the 21st? Or not

That's Edenderry isn't it? Judging by your location on Strava

If you run it at LSR pace then I wouldn't see a problem.. you're likely still recovering from Clontarf even now.

DeepBlue · 11-07-2019 3:54pm

So I've all my races booked. Yay!!

Run Killarney 10K for next week.

John Buckley Cork 10 miler - 30th August

Charleville Half Marathon - 15th September

They don't all fall exactly as per the plan but are close enough I think although it will involve a little rejigging of the plan.

greentea is just wrong · 11-07-2019 6:43pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

I think you've arrived just in time - welcome! Take a look at the Hal Higdon plan posted in the OP. I think it might suit you. No need for speed work in training for your first marathon; let's focus on getting the miles under our belts.

Of the gym sessions, I would be inclined to drop HIIT and keeping one or two strength classes a week. Make sure you include a day off from all exercise, too.

Thanks a Mil Huzzah,

I actually meant the Hal H plan yes, I have that downloaded and been trying to follow that last week & this week.

Last week I didn't do the runs exactly to plan but hit the mileage with 2 longer runs, and this week have followed it to plan.

Just wondering what the difference is between the Easy Run & LSR?

I've also requested to join the Strava group if you can please accept me. Thanks a million

Huzzah! · 11-07-2019 8:10pm

greentea is just wrong wrote: »

Huzzah! wrote: »

I think you've arrived just in time - welcome! Take a look at the Hal Higdon plan posted in the OP. I think it might suit you. No need for speed work in training for your first marathon; let's focus on getting the miles under our belts.

Of the gym sessions, I would be inclined to drop HIIT and keeping one or two strength classes a week. Make sure you include a day off from all exercise, too.

Thanks a Mil Huzzah,

I actually meant the Hal H plan yes, I have that downloaded and been trying to follow that last week & this week.

Last week I didn't do the runs exactly to plan but hit the mileage with 2 longer runs, and this week have followed it to plan.

Just wondering what the difference is between the Easy Run & LSR?

I've also requested to join the Strava group if you can please accept me. Thanks a million

PM me your real life actual name and I’ll accept you

Unknownability · 11-07-2019 8:38pm

Moving the long run again this week, so will be doing 13.1 M tomorrow. Will be aiming for 9'1x m/m so somewhere around 2 hrs.

Tomorrow will be my first time using gels or drinking during a run, plan is half at 5 miles and other half at 10 miles.

New runners arrived today went for the Nike ZOOM Flyknit ones, I started 3 weeks ago with a new pair but then got worried if anything happened them I'd be stuck so will work the new pair into a rotation system.

Bananaleaf · 12-07-2019 12:23am

Wondering what our mentors think of speed walking/race walking as a form of cross training? I was getting my sports massage this week and my lady was asking me about my training. I was explaining about my slow running approach and she suggested that race walking/speed walking was a good way of building fast twitch fibres without putting the stress on my body that faster running would.

What do the mentors think? I was considering maybe doing a mile of speed walking tomorrow, just a small bit to ease myself into it.

Huzzah! · 12-07-2019 7:08am

There are a few people waiting for access to the Strava group - just PM me your name and I’ll grant you access. Thanks!

ReeReeG · 12-07-2019 8:53am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Wondering what our mentors think of speed walking/race walking as a form of cross training? I was getting my sports massage this week and my lady was asking me about my training. I was explaining about my slow running approach and she suggested that race walking/speed walking was a good way of building fast twitch fibres without putting the stress on my body that faster running would.

What do the mentors think? I was considering maybe doing a mile of speed walking tomorrow, just a small bit to ease myself into it.

If you're introducing speed walking as cross-training, which is typically done on a rest from running day, you're possibly adding what could be seen as an extra session in the week. You'd be cancelling out the rest day.

I don't see any benefit in adding speed walking for marathon training. I'm all for a normal paced walk to help loosen legs, but I think you'd find you need recovery from a speed walk similar to after completing any other session.

Can I ask the reasons why you think you might need it? Are you worried about pace? Are your legs/body suffering a lot currently?

Bananaleaf · 12-07-2019 8:58am

ReeReeG wrote: »

If you're introducing speed walking as cross-training, which is typically done on a rest from running day, you're possibly adding what could be seen as an extra session in the week. You'd be cancelling out the rest day.

I don't see any benefit in adding speed walking for marathon training. I'm all for a normal paced walk to help loosen legs, but I think you'd find you need recovery from a speed walk similar to after completing any other session.

Can I ask the reasons why you think you might need it? Are you worried about pace? Are your legs/body suffering a lot currently?

Thanks for the quick reply. My legs feel great with all the slow running, I feel well able for the volume so far, although I know it's early days. I was thinking it might have been a clever way of getting faster and I didn't want to miss out on a trick

Unknownability · 12-07-2019 8:59am

Unknownability wrote: »

Moving the long run again this week, so will be doing 13.1 M tomorrow. Will be aiming for 9'1x m/m so somewhere around 2 hrs.

Tomorrow will be my first time using gels or drinking during a run, plan is half at 5 miles and other half at 10 miles.

New runners arrived today went for the Nike ZOOM Flyknit ones, I started 3 weeks ago with a new pair but then got worried if anything happened them I'd be stuck so will work the new pair into a rotation system.

Run done 13.4 miles average pace 9.08m/m.

Didn't get off to the best start went out without water as I couldn't find a bottle, last 3 miles were somewhat of a struggle gel that I took gave me a kind of a heart burn reaction, a horrible headwind, a hill and dehydration all took its toll and they were endured rather than enjoyed.

Actually looking back on it, the GPS signal went a bit haywire for mile 11. Which makes sense as it definitely didn't feel like I'd broken. My stride to go from 9'03 to 9'34.

ReeReeG · 12-07-2019 9:14am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Thanks for the quick reply. My legs feel great with all the slow running, I feel well able for the volume so far, although I know it's early days. I was thinking it might have been a clever way of getting faster and I didn't want to miss out on a trick

I think the only way to improve at running is more running

(well, aside from S&C stuff but you know what I mean!). Speed walking isn't the same as running, so while it wouldn't hinder fitness I'm not sure any pace improvements are transferable.

eabha19 · 12-07-2019 9:15am

Just back late last night from holiday in Majorca (after a 27 hour delay followed with no luggage at the end including my runners and garmin!) Anyway week one of the holiday was pretty good - did 5 runs totalling 21 miles. Long runs in that heat and on a family holiday were not an option - my long run was 6 miles but I did attempt the paced 5 miler too. This week was not so good - the heat increased (ran at 6:30 on Tuesday in 29 degrees heat) and my nights out yapping with holiday friends got later and later. Then we had the flight delay when I thought I'd be home for a run yesterday. Today I'm heading to my cousin's wedding and it's an overnight so won't get out now til tomorrow evening. I was thinking of doing the hills tomorrow evening and the long run on Sunday or is that too close together - just thought they were the two sessions I should try to squeeze in.

Also I know I was given my times before but I can't find the post. I'm hoping to finish about 4hours 20/4hours 30. I think the right paces are easy runs 6:30m/km, long runs 6:45m/km (this is proving difficult as I've had to keep shouting at my running mate even to get him to slow down to 6:35 or so), and PMP 6:15/6:20.

Anyway, running on holiday was lovely - being able to jog beside the sea whilst the town woke up felt pretty special and yes, pretty sweaty too!! My dodgy ankle got lots of bedrest and swim time and we had a great holiday overall. Now back on it. Race wise I'm not doing the 10k but will do Kilcock 10 mile (10 weeks from the marathon) and the Dublin Half. I may also do a local club 5 miler in September but other than that I think that's it for races - is that enough? Right time to get set for a wedding!

Huzzah! · 12-07-2019 9:23am

Unknownability wrote: »

Run done 13.4 miles average pace 9.08m/m.

Didn't get off to the best start went out without water as I couldn't find a bottle, last 3 miles were somewhat of a struggle gel that I took gave me a kind of a heart burn reaction, a horrible headwind, a hill and dehydration all took its toll and they were endured rather than enjoyed.

Actually looking back on it, the GPS signal went a bit haywire for mile 11. Which makes sense as it definitely didn't feel like I'd broken. My stride to go from 9'03 to 9'34.

The tough runs will stand to you and some valuable lessons learned re hydration. There was also only six days between long runs, which might have added to the difficulty.

Try and bring a couple of euro with you for emergencies.

Huzzah! · 12-07-2019 9:28am

eabha19 wrote: »

Just back late last night from holiday in Majorca (after a 27 hour delay followed with no luggage at the end including my runners and garmin!) Anyway week one of the holiday was pretty good - did 5 runs totalling 21 miles. Long runs in that heat and on a family holiday were not an option - my long run was 6 miles but I did attempt the paced 5 miler too. This week was not so good - the heat increased (ran at 6:30 on Tuesday in 29 degrees heat) and my nights out yapping with holiday friends got later and later. Then we had the flight delay when I thought I'd be home for a run yesterday. Today I'm heading to my cousin's wedding and it's an overnight so won't get out now til tomorrow evening. I was thinking of doing the hills tomorrow evening and the long run on Sunday or is that too close together - just thought they were the two sessions I should try to squeeze in.

Also I know I was given my times before but I can't find the post. I'm hoping to finish about 4hours 20/4hours 30. I think the right paces are easy runs 6:30m/km, long runs 6:45m/km (this is proving difficult as I've had to keep shouting at my running mate even to get him to slow down to 6:35 or so), and PMP 6:15/6:20.

Anyway, running on holiday was lovely - being able to jog beside the sea whilst the town woke up felt pretty special and yes, pretty sweaty too!! My dodgy ankle got lots of bedrest and swim time and we had a great holiday overall. Now back on it. Race wise I'm not doing the 10k but will do Kilcock 10 mile (10 weeks from the marathon) and the Dublin Half. I may also do a local club 5 miler in September but other than that I think that's it for races - is that enough? Right time to get set for a wedding!

Oh, nightmare on the flight delay. Glad the rest of the holiday went well.

Don't do the session on Saturday if you're long running on Sunday. Just get some easy miles in instead.

Your runs are too fast. PMP for a 4:30 marathon is 6:20/km, so your runs are only 10-15seconds slower. It might be time for some solo runs?

Your racing schedule seems fine. I'd be inclined to knock the five miler on the head, though.

Meanman · 12-07-2019 8:13pm

If i do my long run on Saturday (Hal Hi Plan says do it Sunday) what should I do on Sundays and when should I do my Hal Hi Saturday run? Hoping for a sub 4 hr

Kellygirl · 12-07-2019 8:24pm

Meanman wrote: »

If i do my long run on Saturday (Hal Hi Plan says do it Sunday) what should I do on Sundays and when should I do my Hal Hi Saturday run? Hoping for a sub 4 hr

Why don’t you just move the whole plan forward by a day so if the plan says do a recovery run the day after a long run, then do that?

It doesn’t matter what day you do each run as long as you more or less follow the plan structure. I used work weekends so my long run day used be Wednesday’s for the last 2 DCM’s but I would have followed my plan in the same order as everybody else - just a few days earlier.

Huzzah! · 12-07-2019 8:28pm

Meanman wrote: »

If i do my long run on Saturday (Hal Hi Plan says do it Sunday) what should I do on Sundays and when should I do my Hal Hi Saturday run? Hoping for a sub 4 hr

If you follow the Hal Higdon plan in the OP, the long runs are on Saturday.

Meanman · 12-07-2019 10:42pm

Huzzah! wrote: »

If you follow the Hal Higdon plan in the OP, the long runs are on Saturday.

Thanks for the advise guys. Will adjust plan as suggested.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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