Hansons Method

shotgunmcos · 28-06-2019 07:30PM

Ferris B wrote: »

As mentioned in op I've used Hanson with success in London 2017 where I managed 3:01:18 which was a 14 min pb.

It looks like I'll be having a go at DCM this year and I'm going to go with the Hanson Advanced plan again as I trust it.

I'm conscious that my running base is lacking ( not much mileage over the last year) so just have to be wary of that and not get carried away with lofty ambitions. I ran Dunshaughlin 10k last weekend as a rough guide to what I might achieve and will base training paces off that result and also just keep an eye on the HR that I'm not blowing a gasket.

I personally like the plan because I found in previous marathon programs that the 20m+ runs appear to generate injuries so this seemed a good solution. It is a draining, relentless program that will test your resolve ...but it works. It'll be interesting to see how I get on though with less base mileage behind me.

Anyway ...once more unto the breach

Awesome. Your log was the one I went back to so many times to reference sessions. Will you go strictly by the advanced plan again or change anything?

Ferris B · 28-06-2019 07:39PM

No problem with questions.

Average weekly mileage since Jan has been about 15 miles, possibly less and with no sessions or specific training. It's not ideal but it's where I'm at.

Bit slower than you in Dunshaughlin at 42:56. (38:XX in 2017!) Ideally I'd like a few more 10k+ times to use to give a guide for DCM pace but I don't. It's an indicator of my current ability so I'm happy to use that time as my guide. Of course the various calculators that churn a target time vary also ( 3:17 - 3:25 in my case ) but I'm happy to settle at 3:20.

As mentioned before, I'll monitor it but wouldn't expect it to change by more than +/-5 mins. Need to get 6-8 weeks solid training done first (plus a shed load of s&c work) and then I may review.

Ferris B · 28-06-2019 07:51PM

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Awesome. Your log was the one I went back to so many times to reference sessions. Will you go strictly by the advanced plan again or change anything?

And you did very well too . Congratulations on a great performance.

I don't plan on deliberately tweaking the plan unless other sh!t causes me to. Anyway I wouldn't know how to improve on it.

TBH its the other stuff (sleep, diet and exercise) that I'd like to improve as I think they play a huge part in the overall process.

The only deliberate change I might make is if I take in a race (10m or 1/2). That's further down the road though and will decide at later date. Can't even remember if I did an extra race in 2017.* Too old. Must look it up.

*Edit: Ran Ballycotton 10m 6 weeks before London

shotgunmcos · 03-07-2019 10:28AM

Week 2
Perhaps we can do a scrub up of the week at the end of each week and handle any questions that may be open before the next week. Important that each week builds on itself and you need to be ready.

Also the flow of the week is Thursday to Tuesday so if following that pattern, or the book plan, you finished week 1 yesterday with that 12x400m speed session.

I'm managing a niggle so I did the 12x400m on the indoor rower in the pain cave :rolleyes:

Its the only SOS of the week. How'd it go?

jaggiebunnet · 03-07-2019 11:57AM

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Week 2
Perhaps we can do a scrub up of the week at the end of each week and handle any questions that may be open before the next week. Important that each week builds on itself and you need to be ready.

Also the flow of the week is Thursday to Tuesday so if following that pattern, or the book plan, you finished week 1 yesterday with that 12x400m speed session.

I'm managing a niggle so I did the 12x400m on the indoor rower in the pain cave :rolleyes:

Its the only SOS of the week. How'd it go?

Had not been looking forward to it but it turned out good going in the end. Maybe I could have pushed the pace a bit more but it was in line with what I would expect to be at for a 5k just now and was stable across all 12 so happy out.

obriebm · 03-07-2019 12:09PM

Hi folks,

Following this thread with interest as I am undertaking the advance plan for DCM. Have read the book but am tweaking the schedule slightly so that my rest day is on Sunday. So my week looks like:

Mon - SOS
Tues - Easy
Wed - Easy
Thurs - SOS
Fri - Easy
Sat - Long Run
Sun - Rest

Any thoughts on the above welcomed.

Completed the first speed session Monday evening, struggled with consistent pacing but it was the first speed session in a while so I am not too concerned. It has been all easy running for the last few months to build a base.

fennor72 · 03-07-2019 09:40PM

Hi any suggestions how I could fit in the Roscommon 10 mile on Sat this early into the plan. The book does say there is scope for weekend races by changing Thurs tempo to an easy day and usi g the race as the tempo run. But we aren't down to do a tempo run till next Thursday. So will I just leave the race and stick to the schedule

digiman · 03-07-2019 09:56PM

I've started with the Advanced Plan and will move down if I need to. My best marathon was last year's Dublin at 3:57 and I'm aiming for sub 3:30 this year which I know is a huge jump but I think if I can follow the plan and drop weight from 85kg to around 75kg by the time the marathon is on it is possible. Let' see

Week1
Mon - This was a REST day on the plan but I done an easy 10km at 5:33min/km
Tues - I took the day off
Wed - This was also a REST day but I done a Mona Fartlek speed session, speed part I covered 2775m in 10min or 3:36min/km and the recovery parts I done 1201m in 10mins or 8:19min/km
Thur - Done an easy 8km at 5:42min/km
Fri - I took the day off
Sat - Done parkrun in 21:04 and had a warm up and cool down for a total of 7.5km
Sun - Done 14km at a fast pace for me in 5:01min/km which is around about target marathon pace.
Mon - Easy 10km run at 5:41/km
Tues - Done the 12*400m with 400m recovery, all 400m were done in around 93secs

I will report based on the training week being Thursday to Wednesday.

Felt really good all week, legs felt strong despite it being the most I've run this year and one of the most I've ever ran in a single week ever. I would have done around 60km in a week before but would also have done a marathon in the same week!!

I'm planning to keep up the parkruns and do them every 2nd week so I work them in with the easy long Sunday runs, will try and do 5-10km run before the parkrun at a very easy pace though to keep the milage similar to whats on the plan but will assess as I go.

shotgunmcos · 04-07-2019 09:24AM

obriebm wrote: »

Hi folks,

Following this thread with interest as I am undertaking the advance plan for DCM. Have read the book but am tweaking the schedule slightly so that my rest day is on Sunday. So my week looks like:

Mon - SOS
Tues - Easy
Wed - Easy
Thurs - SOS
Fri - Easy
Sat - Long Run
Sun - Rest

Any thoughts on the above welcomed.

Completed the first speed session Monday evening, struggled with consistent pacing but it was the first speed session in a while so I am not too concerned. It has been all easy running for the last few months to build a base.

Good man - keeping Sunday for Church

I have a feeling with that base behind you you will be grand

Shifting the 6 day forward a day but keeping the same pattern is much of a muchness. Let us know how you are getting on! Have a target for DCM or will you see whats what during the plan?

fennor72 wrote: »

Hi any suggestions how I could fit in the Roscommon 10 mile on Sat this early into the plan. The book does say there is scope for weekend races by changing Thurs tempo to an easy day and usi g the race as the tempo run. But we aren't down to do a tempo run till next Thursday. So will I just leave the race and stick to the schedule

Thats a smart way to look at the plan. I have Charleville in the plan (if I can get back running soon) and will drop the previous Thursday tempo to Easy and I'll approach the following Tuesday strength reps cautiously. The one thing I would suggest is guage how the legs feel on the Tuesday speed reps following the 10 mile race.

digiman wrote: »

I've started with the Advanced Plan and will move down if I need to. My best marathon was last year's Dublin at 3:57 and I'm aiming for sub 3:30 this year which I know is a huge jump but I think if I can follow the plan and drop weight from 85kg to around 75kg by the time the marathon is on it is possible. Let' see

Week1
Mon - This was a REST day on the plan but I done an easy 10km at 5:33min/km
Tues - I took the day off
Wed - This was also a REST day but I done a Mona Fartlek speed session, speed part I covered 2775m in 10min or 3:36min/km and the recovery parts I done 1201m in 10mins or 8:19min/km
Thur - Done an easy 8km at 5:42min/km
Fri - I took the day off
Sat - Done parkrun in 21:04 and had a warm up and cool down for a total of 7.5km
Sun - Done 14km at a fast pace for me in 5:01min/km which is around about target marathon pace.
Mon - Easy 10km run at 5:41/km
Tues - Done the 12*400m with 400m recovery, all 400m were done in around 93secs

I will report based on the training week being Thursday to Wednesday.

Felt really good all week, legs felt strong despite it being the most I've run this year and one of the most I've ever ran in a single week ever. I would have done around 60km in a week before but would also have done a marathon in the same week!!

I'm planning to keep up the parkruns and do them every 2nd week so I work them in with the easy long Sunday runs, will try and do 5-10km run before the parkrun at a very easy pace though to keep the milage similar to whats on the plan but will assess as I go.

Parkruns are grand but may be tough to lash them out regularly once you are into the belly of the plan. The Saturday "easy" is actually a "steady" and the SOS Long Run days are tough enough with the cumulative fatigue as is.

obriebm · 04-07-2019 02:34PM

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Good man - keeping Sunday for Church
I have a feeling with that base behind you you will be grand Shifting the 6 day forward a day but keeping the same pattern is much of a muchness. Let us know how you are getting on! Have a target for DCM or will you see whats what during the plan?

Ha, well the lord did decree that it was to be a day of rest.

Not sure what my target it yet to be honest, it is my first (and maybe last) marathon. Based on my 5km time those calculators put me in 3:10 ish range but I would take those with a large grain of salt.

I will see how the body holds up over the next two months and maybe try lock down a target then once I have the speed sessions complete, I think the book allows this approach. Going to do the speed sessions off a 5km that I did a few weeks back and go from there.

Appreciate the response and best of luck to everyone that is signed up for October.

Glencarraig · 04-07-2019 03:45PM

digiman wrote: »

I've started with the Advanced Plan and will move down if I need to. My best marathon was last year's Dublin at 3:57 and I'm aiming for sub 3:30 this year which I know is a huge jump but I think if I can follow the plan and drop weight from 85kg to around 75kg by the time the marathon is on it is possible. Let' see

Week1
Mon - This was a REST day on the plan but I done an easy 10km at 5:33min/km
Tues - I took the day off
Wed - This was also a REST day but I done a Mona Fartlek speed session, speed part I covered 2775m in 10min or 3:36min/km and the recovery parts I done 1201m in 10mins or 8:19min/km
Thur - Done an easy 8km at 5:42min/km
Fri - I took the day off
Sat - Done parkrun in 21:04 and had a warm up and cool down for a total of 7.5km
Sun - Done 14km at a fast pace for me in 5:01min/km which is around about target marathon pace.
Mon - Easy 10km run at 5:41/km
Tues - Done the 12*400m with 400m recovery, all 400m were done in around 93secs

I will report based on the training week being Thursday to Wednesday.

Felt really good all week, legs felt strong despite it being the most I've run this year and one of the most I've ever ran in a single week ever. I would have done around 60km in a week before but would also have done a marathon in the same week!!

I'm planning to keep up the parkruns and do them every 2nd week so I work them in with the easy long Sunday runs, will try and do 5-10km run before the parkrun at a very easy pace though to keep the milage similar to whats on the plan but will assess as I go.

My only suggestion would be that 93 seconds is too fast for 400 intervals if your marathon target is 3.30.

Murph_D · 04-07-2019 03:59PM

Glencarraig wrote: »

My only suggestion would be that 93 seconds is too fast for 400 intervals if your marathon target is 3.30.

Hanson speed sessions are based on 5k/10k 'goal times' rather than MP, so possibly OK if he's a 19-min 5k runner.

[edit - recent 5k was closer to 21 mins, so you're right - way too hot].

digiman · 04-07-2019 06:05PM

Glencarraig wrote: »

My only suggestion would be that 93 seconds is too fast for 400 intervals if your marathon target is 3.30.

Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't busting myself doing them and was able for the 12. I would have been running 400s for a while at that pace or even faster.

Is the danger injury by going at them at that pace or is there some other reason?

Murph_D · 04-07-2019 10:24PM

digiman wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't busting myself doing them and was able for the 12. I would have been running 400s for a while at that pace or even faster.

Is the danger injury by going at them at that pace or is there some other reason?

Injury is one risk (probably quite low to be honest). Another problem is that by overdoing it you are possibly straying into the anaerobic zone and not getting the aerobic benefits that the workout is designed to provide. Finally, you’ll find it harder to recover from the session and not be as ready for the following session. Compound all that over the duration of the plan and you’ll have a problem at some stage (most likely on the course).

Best to play it by the book, especially first time around with the method.

skyblue46 · 04-07-2019 10:34PM

I'm guessing that the plan is for equal recoveries between the 400s. Is that time or distance? A jogged 400 seems quite a long recovery?

Murph_D · 04-07-2019 10:47PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

I'm guessing that the plan is for equal recoveries between the 400s. Is that time or distance? A jogged 400 seems quite a long recovery?

The guidance is time based recovery - jog for 50-100% of the interval time. Its generous at the 100% end, obviously less so if you choose 50%. I’ve usually tended to the generous end but it depends how you feel (and if you trust how you feel).

Edit - This is wrong: the time based recoveries are in the HM plan. M version has distance based jog recoveries. (see below)

skyblue46 · 04-07-2019 10:53PM

Murph_D wrote: »

The guidance is time based recovery - jog for 50-100% of the interval time. Its generous at the 100% end, obviously less so if you choose 50%. I’ve usually tended to the generous end but it depends how you feel (and if you trust how you feel).

So in the case of the poster above the 400m jogged recoveries which were probably in the range of 2-2.5 minutes were a bit above the suggested range. It might explain why they felt easy.

MrMacPhisto · 05-07-2019 08:06AM

Murph_D wrote: »

The guidance is time based recovery - jog for 50-100% of the interval time. Its generous at the 100% end, obviously less so if you choose 50%. I’ve usually tended to the generous end but it depends how you feel (and if you trust how you feel).

Im not 100% sure as I don't have the book in front of me, but I think the recovery in the speed reps in the Hanson plan are 400m jogs increasing to 600 or 800m for some of the longer reps.

You are dead right re the paces Murph, the wrong speed might work the wrong system, or leave you fatigued for other workouts later in the plan, in particular the MP tempos.

Murph_D · 05-07-2019 08:23AM

MrMacPhisto wrote: »

Im not 100% sure as I don't have the book in front of me, but I think the recovery in the speed reps in the Hanson plan are 400m jogs increasing to 600 or 800m for some of the longer reps.

You are dead right re the paces Murph, the wrong speed might work the wrong system, or leave you fatigued for other workouts later in the plan, in particular the MP tempos.

Oops - you're right. I was looking at the HM version of the book, which has the 50-90% time-based recoveries. Mea culpa! Some sessions have 400m jog recovery, others 600 or 800. (It's a bit confusing because in the section where the speed workout is explained there's a reference to 50-90% recovery - obviously another one to add to the book's editing errors.)

shotgunmcos · 05-07-2019 02:24PM

I just kept 400m recovery for all the speed sessions. That is part of what made them really tough and progressively so.

12x400/400m rec
8x600/400m rec
6x800/400m rec
5x1k/400m rec
4x1200/400m rec
Pyramid/400m rec
3x1600/400m rec but I reduced the intensity of these to strength effort

Then strength sessions
6x1mile/400m rec
3x2m/800m rec
2x3m/1m rec

Just remember that if you are unable to jog the recoveries, you did the rep too hard!

rooneyjm · 07-07-2019 03:41PM

digiman wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback, I wasn't busting myself doing them and was able for the 12. I would have been running 400s for a while at that pace or even faster.

Is the danger injury by going at them at that pace or is there some other reason?

As the weeks go on and the intervals and tempos get longer, you might not be able to complete the tempo at the correct pace if you are fatigued from over doing the speed session.
A good sign that you have good speed, you won’t have to go too deep to complete them.

rooneyjm · 07-07-2019 03:58PM

skyblue46 wrote: »

So in the case of the poster above the 400m jogged recoveries which were probably in the range of 2-2.5 minutes were a bit above the suggested range. It might explain why they felt easy.

The speed sessions are to make the program more rounded as sometimes speed is neglected during marathon training. Also the second half of the plan is more critical so 10-20 sec extra recovery between intervals is neither here non there IMO.
With experience you should start to feel when your heart rate has recovered sufficiently rather than waiting for an allotted time.

Djoucer · 07-07-2019 05:24PM

Good rule of thumb on the reps is that you should feel that you could do an additional rep at the end of the session at the same pace as first one.

If you’re hanging on for dear life on last rep, probably pace is too high.

shotgunmcos · 09-07-2019 08:43PM

Djoucer wrote: »

Good rule of thumb on the reps is that you should feel that you could do an additional rep at the end of the session at the same pace as first one.

If you’re hanging on for dear life on last rep, probably pace is too high.

The way Hansons describe it is that if you cannot jog the recoveries you did the rep too hard.

digiman · 10-07-2019 01:13PM

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I took that on board and for the 600m intervals this week I ran them at the 21min 5km Goal which worked out at 2:33min per 600m, I was able to do all recovery jogs apart from one where I walked for a minute but overall very happy with that session.

Week 2 progress
Thurs: Plan has an easy 10km, ran this at 5:40min/km pace
Fri: Plan has an easy 10km, ran this at 5:42min/km pace
Sat: Plan has an easy 13km but actually done parkrun, ran it in 21:42. Knew I didn't have the legs for it so ran it as a tempo run. I don't think I will be running these much in the future and will just do the easy runs as per the plan.
Sun: Plan has an easy 13km but ran 15km at 5:58min/km. Heart rate was an average of 137 which I was happy with as I can see good progress in my HR falling while maintaining the same pace.
Mon: Plan has an easy 10km, ran that at 5:41min/km pace.
Tues: Plan has 8*600m intervals with 400m recoveries, ran these at about 4:15min/km and done the recoveries at about 5:45min/km

Overall, ran 66km this week which is exactly as the plan says. This is also the furthest I've ever ran in a single week so hopefully can keep building on that into the peak mileage weeks in the plan.

Tempo 10km run tomorrow which I will aim to run at around 4:45-4:50min/km. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

shotgunmcos · 10-07-2019 02:08PM

digiman wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback guys, I took that on board and for the 600m intervals this week I ran them at the 21min 5km Goal which worked out at 2:33min per 600m, I was able to do all recovery jogs apart from one where I walked for a minute but overall very happy with that session.

Week 2 progress
Thurs: Plan has an easy 10km, ran this at 5:40min/km pace
Fri: Plan has an easy 10km, ran this at 5:42min/km pace
Sat: Plan has an easy 13km but actually done parkrun, ran it in 21:42. Knew I didn't have the legs for it so ran it as a tempo run. I don't think I will be running these much in the future and will just do the easy runs as per the plan.
Sun: Plan has an easy 13km but ran 15km at 5:58min/km. Heart rate was an average of 137 which I was happy with as I can see good progress in my HR falling while maintaining the same pace.
Mon: Plan has an easy 10km, ran that at 5:41min/km pace.
Tues: Plan has 8*600m intervals with 400m recoveries, ran these at about 4:15min/km and done the recoveries at about 5:45min/km

Overall, ran 66km this week which is exactly as the plan says. This is also the furthest I've ever ran in a single week so hopefully can keep building on that into the peak mileage weeks in the plan.

Tempo 10km run tomorrow which I will aim to run at around 4:45-4:50min/km. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

Well done that's a solid week. The tempo runs are key. Easily for me the most important session. Good that you will have 2 more 10k tempos before it progresses. You can apply whatever you learn tomorrow. All in it will be 16km with warm up and cool down so also your longest run of the plan to date.

Huzzah! · 10-07-2019 02:12PM

digiman wrote: »

Tempo 10km run tomorrow which I will aim to run at around 4:45-4:50min/km. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

Is that not a bit quick for your aim?

digiman · 10-07-2019 02:26PM

Huzzah! wrote: »

Is that not a bit quick for your aim?

It is probably about 10s/km to quick for a sub 3.5hr target but I would like to aim for 3:25 marathon and know there is a bit of space to fall back on so I'm trying to train to the 3:25 marathon plan. But I will see how it goes tomorrow I suppose. It will be a long run.

Kissy Lips · 14-07-2019 12:21PM

Got through all sessions so far including today except the first Thursday tempo. I was in the hills of Provence in Cotignac. 30 degrees, no flat route, bit of wine the night before etc, etc. My heart rate spiraled and I abandoned after 3 miles.

I will nail it this Thursday back in Ireland. Just means now that I will have to go easy in the South Dublin 10km. I was going to give it a lash but I couldn't suffer two missed Thursday sessions. Don't want to mess around the schedule.

Itziger · 14-07-2019 07:21PM

Am seriously considering this for Valencia 2019. Don't know how the body will take 3 SOSs a week but I guess I'll find out soon enough. My pre-plan plan currently consists of no running for 2 weeks replacing it instead with lots of food and drink. Today's session has included BBQd spatchcocked chicken with a light red as well as duck with prunes and a small plate of cheeses as we speak. Dinner is with a glass or two of white. Snacks have been accompanied by beer and a g&t so I reckon I'm well placed to rip into the 18 weeks. Good luck to all.

Hansons Method

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