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Intel versus farmer. Rte1 now

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    #62
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭screamer


    charolais0153 wrote: »
    i thought he was depressed tbh, not a very happy man at all

    Nah he’s far from it. But definitely the hoarding is unhealthy. He’s a simple living guy, happy in his own place, with his own pace of life. Leave him to it, no need for bully boy tactics to force him out of his farm. I heard carton house is also close by, sure why not cpo that land, it’s just there to make a hotel look good......


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    #63
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,787 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    screamer wrote: »
    I heard carton house is also close by, sure why not cpo that land, it’s just there to make a hotel look good......

    I thought the very same thing, you couldn't deprive the great and the good of their game of golf, shur god love them, afaik much of the grounds are golf courses now.


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    #64
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,482 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    screamer wrote: »
    Nah he’s far from it. But definitely the hoarding is unhealthy. He’s a simple living guy, happy in his own place, with his own pace of life. Leave him to it, no need for bully boy tactics to force him out of his farm. I heard carton house is also close by, sure why not cpo that land, it’s just there to make a hotel look good......

    Intel wanted his land because it’s adja to theirs making expansion across kellystown lane easy.


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    #65
    M5
    Registered Users Posts: 10,161 ✭✭✭✭M5


    Carton house is the far side of his land. Non runner.


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    #66
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    He got very lucky in his case by the the sound of it so he could have ended up losing and having a hefty bill.should by ave had more detail on the character s involved from the ida but this film wasnt made in the National interest


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    #67
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    NIMAN wrote: »
    Andrew00 wrote: »
    I think it's good

    The story is good but they are dragging the ar$e out of it. Could have been done in 30mins.
    That would be a rifle.


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    #68
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Very much in the Padraig Nally mold.
    PN appeared on TG4 one night, looked like he had Parkinsons his hands were shaking so much, looked very shook too.

    These kinds of guys are "happy" enough keeping to themselves, just seems like life passing you by, a life kind of wasted to me.

    Padraig nally seemed to be just a quiet soft spoken man, this man in Kildare is extremely eccentric

    Nallys farm wasn't tidy but nothing like this other gents place


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    #69
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    People here have said fair play to him and all that and standing up to the state. I can say this as someone that has gone through two CPO processes, one of which completely displaced my family farm, that they should be able to CPO Reid’s farm. When you weigh up all the people intel employs directly and indirectly. Livelihoods and the entire surrounding area depend on it . Trump would only be to happy to take intel back to America and we would all be living like Thomas Reid. In bloody squalor. Moralizing and pontificating is alright till there is no food on the table.
    I passed this farm twice daily 40 years ago. It was a tidy place. Then the father died and Thomas used to have hand painted sign up “ trailers for sale”. I could go into other stuff but it wouldn’t be fair but I can say the place has gone into that state under its present management. How can it be fair that a whole areas future be put at risk for one eccentric?


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    #70
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    Oh and by the way he has a fresh 4wd tractor and loader since the film came out. I doubt there will be a slatted house n diet feeder though🙄


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    #71
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,078 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    People here have said fair play to him and all that and standing up to the state. I can say this as someone that has gone through two CPO processes, one of which completely displaced my family farm, that they should be able to CPO Reid’s farm. When you weigh up all the people intel employs directly and indirectly. Livelihoods and the entire surrounding area depend on it . Trump would only be to happy to take intel back to America and we would all be living like Thomas Reid. In bloody squalor. Moralizing and pontificating is alright till there is no food on the table.
    I passed this farm twice daily 40 years ago. It was a tidy place. Then the father died and Thomas used to have hand painted sign up “ trailers for sale”. I could go into other stuff but it wouldn’t be fair but I can say the place has gone into that state under its present management. How can it be fair that a whole areas future be put at risk for one eccentric?




    Who is the "They" that you refer to?
    Is it Intel - a private multinational corporation. You would turn a blind eye to someone's property being expropriated for some corporation?


    Where would you draw the line? Should a large Irish company be able to seize citizen's property? How about a smaller, locally important one? How about when one of the Healys Rae decides they want that field on the edge of their town for one of their many local businesses? You'd be alright with them being allowed to CPO it and pay some agricultural value for it?



    Any country that does not have proper property rights ends up being far less developed that those that do. So having those protections in place benefits everyone, even if you don't realize it.

    I'm not saying your man should or should not sell. That is his choice and his choice alone. I simultaneously admire and pity the man for not selling out.



    (I just use Healys Rae as a generic well-known politician name that have lots of local businesses)


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    #72
    mycro2013
    Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭mycro2013


    M5 wrote: »
    Carton house is the far side of his land. Non runner.

    They wanted his land to reposition kellystown lane to a position adjacent to the carton house boundary wall.


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    #73
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Cattlepen wrote: »
    People here have said fair play to him and all that and standing up to the state. I can say this as someone that has gone through two CPO processes, one of which completely displaced my family farm, that they should be able to CPO Reid’s farm. When you weigh up all the people intel employs directly and indirectly. Livelihoods and the entire surrounding area depend on it . Trump would only be to happy to take intel back to America and we would all be living like Thomas Reid. In bloody squalor. Moralizing and pontificating is alright till there is no food on the table.
    I passed this farm twice daily 40 years ago. It was a tidy place. Then the father died and Thomas used to have hand painted sign up “ trailers for sale”. I could go into other stuff but it wouldn’t be fair but I can say the place has gone into that state under its present management. How can it be fair that a whole areas future be put at risk for one eccentric?




    Who is the "They" that you refer to?
    Is it Intel - a private multinational corporation. You would turn a blind eye to someone's property being expropriated for some corporation?


    Where would you draw the line? Should a large Irish company be able to seize citizen's property? How about a smaller, locally important one? How about when one of the Healys Rae decides they want that field on the edge of their town for one of their many local businesses? You'd be alright with them being allowed to CPO it and pay some agricultural value for it?



    Any country that does not have proper property rights ends up being far less developed that those that do. So having those protections in place benefits everyone, even if you don't realize it.

    I'm not saying your man should or should not sell. That is his choice and his choice alone. I simultaneously admire and pity the man for not selling out.



    (I just use Healys Rae as a generic well-known politician name that have lots of local businesses)
    The “they” I refer to is the IDA. Like I said in an earlier post, i’ve Been through 2 CPO’s. One became a toll toll road which is a business and the other was by Dublin corporation. They then built Wyeth factory on it. I’ve no problem with either. We got well paid for it the same way Reid was getting well paid.


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    #74
    Bonzo Delaney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Bonzo Delaney


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    The “they” I refer to is the IDA. Like I said in an earlier post, i’ve Been through 2 CPO’s. One became a toll toll road which is a business and the other was by Dublin corporation. They then built Wyeth factory on it. I’ve no problem with either. We got well paid for it the same way Reid was getting well paid.

    I think the difference is you could put a monetary value on you compensation sum and use that to relocate and expand
    Difference is Thomas Reid comes across as putting no value what's so ever in monetary sums just want to live out his quiet life in his own house on his own land in his own way with out harming any body


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    #75
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Sheep breeder wrote: »
    Was the film maker try to show that things were ok with him in 80/90s and went down hill with the intel/IDA bulling of him over greed and stating 5 other farms were suitable but were never approached and he was targeted.
    Have yet to see it, but what other farms nearby would be suitable?


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    #76
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    The “they” I refer to is the IDA. Like I said in an earlier post, i’ve Been through 2 CPO’s. One became a toll toll road which is a business and the other was by Dublin corporation. They then built Wyeth factory on it. I’ve no problem with either. We got well paid for it the same way Reid was getting well paid.

    The difference is that the IDA has no powers to CPO land banks (for which they had no immediate uses for). If I recall rightly this mans case went to the Supreme Court and he won it on that basis, that and the discovery that the consultant company used by the IDA was one owned by the chairman of the IDA at the time, so there could have been the perception of bias.

    Didn't they pay 7.5 million for a 18 acre site at Collinstown last year ? That is "acquired" supposedly for Intel.

    This whole public good aspect of acquiring land for foreign multinationals, forcing the reluctant land owners to sell doesn't sit right with me. The IDA is sitting on 2700 acres of unused landbank bought over decades and 64% of their properties lie vacant.

    Perhaps we will see less and less of this when these FDI companies are expected to pay the going rate for taxes.


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    #77
    Lime Tree Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭Lime Tree Farm


    Signed into law by Michael D Higgins 24 July 2018

    Industrial Development (Amendment) Bill 2018

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2018-03-28/43/


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    #78
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Lime Tree Farm wrote: »
    Signed into legislation by Michael D Higgins 24 July 2018

    Industrial Development (Amendment) Bill 2018

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2018-03-28/43/


    Interesting thanks. So I gather from reading that, that An Bord Pleanála has the role now in compulsory acquisitions.


    Wonder will they now pursue the CPO'ing of this man's land.


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    #79
    cute geoge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,868 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    The ida made a big hoha when cpo 640 acre land bank here in north kerry back in the 1970's and tis has remained idle since some of it leased out to local farmers .This is in an employment blackspot which badly needs imvestment yet the ida just sat on this land bank since.More than likely Thomas Reids land would not be put to any industrial use either!!!


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    #80
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    We cannot afford to be without these companies. They are our bread and butter. That deserve to be treated as special and facilitated in whatever way we can. What else have we got?
    Agriculture is a dead duck. Very shortly we will be the most westerly point of Europe with no uk to trade with. what are we going to do then? Whimper to EU that we need more handouts? Then object to the likes of Apple building a golden goose? Blame the government, blame the banks , blame big business, blame the meat factories. I’m glad Michael D signed that into law and I hope they cpo Reid’s place for intel. Oddballs should not supersede the greater good. It’s a trend to blame big business for our woes but where would be without it? Singing flipping woody Guthrie songs and living in cuckoo land


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    #81
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    We cannot afford to be without these companies. They are our bread and butter. That deserve to be treated as special and facilitated in whatever way we can. What else have we got?
    Agriculture is a dead duck. Very shortly we will be the most westerly point of Europe with no uk to trade with. what are we going to do then? Whimper to EU that we need more handouts? Then object to the likes of Apple building a golden goose? Blame the government, blame the banks , blame big business, blame the meat factories. I’m glad Michael D signed that into law and I hope they cpo Reid’s place for intel. Oddballs should not supersede the greater good. It’s a trend to blame big business for our woes but where would be without it? Singing flipping woody Guthrie songs and living in cuckoo land

    Where do you draw the line at "the greater good" ? Who gets to decide what the greater good is ?

    As with the example already used, if a Healy Rae decided they wanted a field on the outskirts of town for a commercial business, would it be the greater good that this land be CPO'd ? (The land may have been in a family for generations and may be in use for farming) ....but is it a "greater good" if the proposed business will employ 5people, 10people, 20people, 50people ?

    Questions need to be asked of the IDA and their land ownership, CPOs have been used and the land has been left unused for many years.(examples are already given in this thread)


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    #82
    Parishlad
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Parishlad


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    We cannot afford to be without these companies. They are our bread and butter. That deserve to be treated as special and facilitated in whatever way we can. What else have we got?
    Agriculture is a dead duck. Very shortly we will be the most westerly point of Europe with no uk to trade with. what are we going to do then? Whimper to EU that we need more handouts? Then object to the likes of Apple building a golden goose? Blame the government, blame the banks , blame big business, blame the meat factories. I’m glad Michael D signed that into law and I hope they cpo Reid’s place for intel. Oddballs should not supersede the greater good. It’s a trend to blame big business for our woes but where would be without it? Singing flipping woody Guthrie songs and living in cuckoo land

    Lets say for arguments sake that Mr Reid wasn't a little bit 'quirky'. If the farm, buildings etc. were in top notch order. So say he is running a 'successful' farm, involved in the local community in one way or another and generally meets all the criteria for what some may call a normal, hard working, honest run of the mill kind of man. Take the 'oddball' argument out of the equation and yet he still does not want to 'sell' his home and land that has been in his family for over a hundred years, is it right that someone can come along and try to forcibly take it anyway? For the greater good of course.


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    #83
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Parishlad wrote: »
    Lets say for arguments sake that Mr Reid wasn't a little bit 'quirky'. If the farm, buildings etc. were in top notch order. So say he is running a 'successful' farm, involved in the local community in one way or another and generally meets all the criteria for what some may call a normal, hard working, honest run of the mill kind of man. Take the 'oddball' argument out of the equation and yet he still does not want to 'sell' his home and land that has been in his family for over a hundred years, is it right that someone can come along and try to forcibly take it anyway? For the greater good of course.


    This is the nub of the issue. The IDA get to say what is more important, an individuals right to farm or the compulsory purchase of the presumably agricultural zoned land for industrial purposes. Its like an audit on farming efficiency and land usage.

    How do other farmers feel about this ?


    Given the large amounts of unused land bank the IDA have it seems greater good is a political influenced term.


    I watched the programme. It made for depressing viewing. This man has his own ways and seems lost mainly in the past, whilst being a lone voice against well manned and ably represented bodies.


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    #84
    Parishlad
    Registered Users Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Parishlad


    STB. wrote: »
    This is the nub of the issue. The IDA get to say what is more important, an individuals right to farm or the compulsory purchase of the presumably agricultural zoned land for industrial purposes. Its like an audit on farming efficiency and land usage.

    How do other farmers feel about this ?


    Given the large amounts of unused land bank the IDA have it seems greater good is a political influenced term.


    I watched the programme. It made for depressing viewing. This man has his own ways and seems lost mainly in the past, whilst being a lone voice against well manned and ably represented bodies.

    I suppose the point I was trying to make is that the fact that the man is a bit left of field has (or at least should not have) nothing to do with whether or not his land gets CPO'd. He lives his life his own way and that's his choice. It wouldn't be to my taste or many others I would suggest but it should not have any relevance on the discussion in relation to the CPO.


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    #85
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    Parishlad wrote: »
    Cattlepen wrote: »
    We cannot afford to be without these companies. They are our bread and butter. That deserve to be treated as special and facilitated in whatever way we can. What else have we got?
    Agriculture is a dead duck. Very shortly we will be the most westerly point of Europe with no uk to trade with. what are we going to do then? Whimper to EU that we need more handouts? Then object to the likes of Apple building a golden goose? Blame the government, blame the banks , blame big business, blame the meat factories. I’m glad Michael D signed that into law and I hope they cpo Reid’s place for intel. Oddballs should not supersede the greater good. It’s a trend to blame big business for our woes but where would be without it? Singing flipping woody Guthrie songs and living in cuckoo land

    Lets say for arguments sake that Mr Reid wasn't a little bit 'quirky'. If the farm, buildings etc. were in top notch order. So say he is running a 'successful' farm, involved in the local community in one way or another and generally meets all the criteria for what some may call a normal, hard working, honest run of the mill kind of man. Take the 'oddball' argument out of the equation and yet he still does not want to 'sell' his home and land that has been in his family for over a hundred years, is it right that someone can come along and try to forcibly take it anyway? For the greater good of course.
    If you read my posts I have had this done to me twice. Yes, it was difficult during the whole process BUT in the end I just got on with things and life improved .Now there are loads of jobs in wyeths and people can travel Dublin to Galway with ease. My life is not over. The process is fairly fair and transparent. I know well of Reid’s situation but it’s not for me to bring up anything personal about it. And by the way, any land that was CPO’d on me wasn’t in my family for 100 years. My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.


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    #86
    Cattlepen
    Registered Users Posts: 772 ✭✭✭Cattlepen


    “Lets say for arguments sake that Mr Reid wasn't a little bit 'quirky'. If the farm, buildings etc. were in top notch order. So say he is running a 'successful' farm, involved in the local community in one way or another and generally meets all the criteria for what some may call a normal, hard working, honest run of the mill kind of man. Take the 'oddball' argument out of the equation and yet he still does not want to 'sell' his home and land that has been in his family for over a hundred years, is it right that someone can come along and try to forcibly take it anyway? For the greater good of course.[/quote]”

    Well who owned it before the Reid’s? I could hazard a guess to say it was the duke of Leinster. Why was it taken off him? The land acts for the greater good of course Not all the landlords ran their estates into the ground and they were forced to sell and the land redistributed. That turned out ok in the bigger scheme of things


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    #87
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    I suppose it could be said that the state was acting against an Irish citizen inthe interest of an foreign company .what kind of a country does that even if there is "jobs"involved


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    #88
    monseiur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Mr Reid must have some farm to be valued at €10 million, yet, going by the film his stocking density seemed very low. He may have leased the bulk of the farm and kept a few acres & cattle as a hobby.
    Did the state/IDA pay his legal expenses seeing that he won his case, a day in the high court is not cheap.
    If/ when say the likes of Intel, Amazon etc go out of business and they have acres of office blocks, factories, warehouses etc. empty can they 'sit' on these properties for years for a myriad of reasons until it suits them to sell or has the IDA the power to CPO them ??? for the good of the masses ;)........yet they were given, through an act of the oireachtas, power to CPO farmers land:mad: .....we're gradually becoming more like communist China by the back door.


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    #89
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    If you read my posts I have had this done to me twice. Yes, it was difficult during the whole process BUT in the end I just got on with things and life improved .Now there are loads of jobs in wyeths and people can travel Dublin to Galway with ease. My life is not over. The process is fairly fair and transparent. I know well of Reid’s situation but it’s not for me to bring up anything personal about it. And by the way, any land that was CPO’d on me wasn’t in my family for 100 years. My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

    Interesting..... do you take the same view to google/Facebook etc, let them have all the data they need because it’s for the greater good of humanity ? Would you allow yourself to be tracked and have your calories monitored .... so that society could benefit ?

    I understand you have been through the CPO process and come out the richer for it, that’s fine if money is what you wanted....if you were not bothered by money/material possessions would you/your family have been willing to transfer the land “for the greater good” ?


    Honestly not trying to attack you personally, more the idea/concept that the greater good is not always for the greater good.


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    #90
    monty_python
    Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭monty_python


    Is it available to strei online anywhere?


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    #91
    TheFarrier
    Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭TheFarrier


    monty_python wrote: »
    Is it available to strei online anywhere?

    RTÉ player


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