Intel versus farmer. Rte1 now

Base price

monty_python wrote: »

Is it available to strei online anywhere?

https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/the-lonely-battle-of-thomas-reid/103835175992
It is only available for 29 days.

893bet

Thought the shooting of the cow and disposal was pointless. And in poor taste enough as people from a non farming background will not have even known what was wrong due to a lack of explanation.

Cattlepen

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

Cattlepen wrote: »

If you read my posts I have had this done to me twice. Yes, it was difficult during the whole process BUT in the end I just got on with things and life improved .Now there are loads of jobs in wyeths and people can travel Dublin to Galway with ease. My life is not over. The process is fairly fair and transparent. I know well of Reid’s situation but it’s not for me to bring up anything personal about it. And by the way, any land that was CPO’d on me wasn’t in my family for 100 years. My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

Interesting..... do you take the same view to google/Facebook etc, let them have all the data they need because it’s for the greater good of humanity ? Would you allow yourself to be tracked and have your calories monitored .... so that society could benefit ?

I understand you have been through the CPO process and come out the richer for it, that’s fine if money is what you wanted....if you were not bothered by money/material possessions would you/your family have been willing to transfer the land “for the greater good” ?


Honestly not trying to attack you personally, more the idea/concept that the greater good is not always for the greater good.

I careless about what info google or amazon harvest from me. U insinuate that money was all I wanted. I never said that’s all I wanted but I dealt with the situation at hand and Harbour no resentment towards the people and organizations I had to deal with. And no I would not have given the land away. That’s a stupid question. Nobody was asking Reid to give away his land either. I was given what was going at the time and made the best I could out of it. Made plenty of mistakes also but that’s my problem.
Again back to my point about what Reid said in the film, that he could end up with €10million and still own his land because of an ongoing action? He’s not letting it go

Jupiter Mulligan

cute geoge wrote: »

The ida made a big hoha when cpo 640 acre land bank here in north kerry back in the 1970's and tis has remained idle since some of it leased out to local farmers .

I assume you're referring to the so-called Ballylongford Land Bank? If so, bearing in mind the kind of industries that were being talked about back in the 1970's, (oil refinery, smelter, natural gas storage plant, etc.) there's not a chance of them being used for that kind of stuff today - the NIMBYs simply would't let it happen.

cute geoge wrote: »

This is in an employment blackspot which badly needs imvestment yet the ida just sat on this land bank since.More than likely Thomas Reids land would not be put to any industrial use either!!!

An absolute disgrace that the IDA can't wave its magic wand and force industrialists to re-locate to Ferris country.

cute geoge wrote: »

More than likely Thomas Reids land would not be put to any industrial use either!!!

Because development land in Leixlip is exactly the same as development land in North Kerry! :rolleyes:

funkey_monkey

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

I assume you're referring to the so-called Ballylongford Land Bank? If so, bearing in mind the kind of industries that were being talked about back in the 1970's, (oil refinery, smelter, natural gas storage plant, etc.) there's not a chance of them being used for that kind of stuff today - the NIMBYs simply would't let it happen.

Would you be happy with it beside you? Or even a bit of fracking?

An absolute disgrace that the IDA can't wave its magic wand and force industrialists to re-locate to Ferris country.

If they can't wave their magic wand and force industry to the area WTF were they doing CPO'ing large amounts of land with no plan in mind?

funkey_monkey

Cattlepen wrote: »

My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

Load of balls.

Its 'flipping arrogance' to assume that everyone that was born and reared on a farm has no intuition or work ethic.
:rolleyes:

Cattlepen

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Cattlepen wrote: »

My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

Load of balls.

Its 'flipping arrogance' to assume that everyone that was born and reared on a farm has no intuition or work ethic.
:rolleyes:

You are only partially quoting my response to someone else’s question. Would be better if you quoted the whole lot and people would see I never assumed people born on a farm have no intuition or work ethic. Sure I was born on one myself. I was having a go at the attitude towards family land. It’s not a religion. It’s not a vital organ. You CAN live without it.

Dinzee Conlee

So when should a CPO be applied?

For roads - motorways, bad corners, etc... Everyone benefits here, so is this acceptable? Same for trains or any public transport...
For housing - housing crisis in Dublin apparently, should some disused lots or brownfield sites be CPO’d for social housing?

Personally - I don’t think the IDA or any public body should be able to CPO land at the drop of a hat. But - I also think there should be some way to CPO land, be that through An Bord Planala or whoever...

funkey_monkey

Cattlepen wrote: »

You are only partially quoting my response to someone else’s question. Would be better if you quoted the whole lot and people would see I never assumed people born on a farm have no intuition or work ethic. Sure I was born on one myself. I was having a go at the attitude towards family land. It’s not a religion. It’s not a vital organ. You CAN live without it.

But that is the thing. It's different strokes for different folks. You may not have a deep affiliation to the land you farm, but that does not mean that everyone else should have the similar thoughts towards their land - especially the 'home' farm. Outlying land bought to supplement the homestead will probably have weaker tugs on the heart, but the home farm will always mean a lot more to many farmers.

If you read my posts I have had this done to me twice. Yes, it was difficult during the whole process BUT in the end I just got on with things and life improved .Now there are loads of jobs in wyeths and people can travel Dublin to Galway with ease. My life is not over. The process is fairly fair and transparent. I know well of Reid’s situation but it’s not for me to bring up anything personal about it. And by the way, any land that was CPO’d on me wasn’t in my family for 100 years. My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

Lissoy

He won his case as the land was not needed by Intel at that time, although the law has subsequently changed in relation to this. In reality Intel will not likely need that land in the next 10 years and they may never need it as the current factory under construction at the site will meet the demand from the Ireland site for many years.
If there is a definite need for his land and all other options have been exhausted I agree with a CPO but in this case it's just the IDA hedging it's bets.

Cattlepen

Lissoy wrote: »

He won his case as the land was not needed by Intel at that time, although the law has subsequently changed in relation to this. In reality Intel will not likely need that land in the next 10 years and they may never need it as the current factory under construction at the site will meet the demand from the Ireland site for many years.
If there is a definite need for his land and all other options have been exhausted I agree with a CPO but in this case it's just the IDA hedging it's bets.

Reid has objected to the new development at intel. Whether his objection will be successful remains to be seen but he is trying to impede progress albeit his democratic right

Jupiter Mulligan

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Would you be happy with it beside you? Or even a bit of fracking?

Not quite sure what that has to do with anything. I'm not the arbiter of where industries requiring deep-water berthing facilities are located. But that's why the IDA CPO'd the lands mentioned by the other poster.

funkey_monkey wrote: »

If they can't wave their magic wand and force industry to the area WTF were they doing CPO'ing large amounts of land with no plan in mind?

Thanks for asking that question, delighted to explain, although I'm amazed that you don't know the answer.

The IDA's policy back in the 1970's was to have parcels of serviced zoned sites (and advance factories) available all over the country, to tempt industrialists from overseas to locate their businesses somewhere in Ireland.

Sometimes the sites/factories on offer were taken up, other times they weren't. But the strategy was to have them available and ready to go so the industries could get things running as quickly as possible. Very successful it was too, although obviously there were some failures.

Cattlepen

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Cattlepen wrote: »

You are only partially quoting my response to someone else’s question. Would be better if you quoted the whole lot and people would see I never assumed people born on a farm have no intuition or work ethic. Sure I was born on one myself. I was having a go at the attitude towards family land. It’s not a religion. It’s not a vital organ. You CAN live without it.

But that is the thing. It's different strokes for different folks. You may not have a deep affiliation to the land you farm, but that does not mean that everyone else should have the similar thoughts towards their land - especially the 'home' farm. Outlying land bought to supplement the homestead will probably have weaker tugs on the heart, but the home farm will always mean a lot more to many farmers.

If you read my posts I have had this done to me twice. Yes, it was difficult during the whole process BUT in the end I just got on with things and life improved .Now there are loads of jobs in wyeths and people can travel Dublin to Galway with ease. My life is not over. The process is fairly fair and transparent. I know well of Reid’s situation but it’s not for me to bring up anything personal about it. And by the way, any land that was CPO’d on me wasn’t in my family for 100 years. My grandfather was born in the liberties in Dublin the son of a poor labourer. Anything he had was got through graft and intuition not by inheritance. Back to this bull**** nostalgia The land, The land The land !!! Flipping arrogance if you ask me.

Sorry there, where did I say people born on farms havnt intuition or work ethic? Waiting for answer about that

Lissoy

Cattlepen wrote: »

Reid has objected to the new development at intel. Whether his objection will be successful remains to be seen but he is trying to impede progress albeit his democratic right

That objection is separate from the CPO stuff and his lands.
His current objection is unlikely to succeed as the site works are already well under way and the foundations are in progress. Although after the Apple case in Athenry you never know.

Gael23

Why did he shoot a cow near the end of the show?

Bullocks

"Pamela Ewing, she'd be a sister of Cliff Barnes". FFS Did the flutes making a documentary need to put that kinda stuff on it.

Jupiter Mulligan

Gael23 wrote: »

Why did he shoot a cow near the end of the show?

A veiled warning to the IDA/Intel anti-Christs who are conspiring to take his land?

Irishphotodesk

Cattlepen wrote: »

I careless about what info google or amazon harvest from me. U insinuate that money was all I wanted. I never said that’s all I wanted but I dealt with the situation at hand and Harbour no resentment towards the people and organizations I had to deal with. And no I would not have given the land away. That’s a stupid question. Nobody was asking Reid to give away his land either. I was given what was going at the time and made the best I could out of it. Made plenty of mistakes also but that’s my problem.
Again back to my point about what Reid said in the film, that he could end up with €10million and still own his land because of an ongoing action? He’s not letting it go

Apologies if I implied money was your motivation in your CPO experiences, my point was simple, you are saying his land should be CPO’d “for the greater good” and I was making the comparison to your own CPO experience, would you have been willing to let the land go “for the greater good” , and you answered no.

I wasn’t asking if you would give the land away, if you were faced with a CPO where you were not getting paid or not getting what you think was a fair price, would you fight it .... if your answer is yes, then you are no different to mr reid, his belief is that whatever money they are offering....it isn’t a fair price.

Do you believe the government/IDA etc should be able to compulsory purchase any plot of land ?

STB.

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

The IDA's policy back in the 1970's was to have parcels of serviced zoned sites (and advance factories) available all over the country, to tempt industrialists from overseas to locate their businesses somewhere in Ireland.

Sometimes the sites/factories on offer were taken up, other times they weren't. But the strategy was to have them available and ready to go so the industries could get things running as quickly as possible. Very successful it was too, although obviously there were some failures.

Yes and its a mechanism that is surely flawed Jupiter.

64% of their properties lie vacant.

The IDA are reportedly sitting on 2700 acres of a land bank that they have purchased with tax payers money at a time when we have a housing crisis.

Jupiter Mulligan

STB. wrote: »

Yes and its a mechanism that is surely flawed Jupiter.

64% of their properties lie vacant.

The IDA are reportedly sitting on 2700 acres of a land bank that they have purchased with tax payers money at a time when we have a housing crisis.

I wasn't defending it, but simply answering the question that was asked. I suspect - but don't know - that much of its land bank isn't zoned for housing or isn't located in suitable locations to meet housing needs.

I'm not at all happy with the IDA's land bank, but I accept that the Organisation was merely acting in obedience to the directions and half-baked policies of its many political masters.

I regularly drive past a dilapidated shabby IDA 'advance factory' cluster that has never had a single tenant since it was built over twenty years ago. But it probably won the government of the day a vital by-election. And quite possibly the landowner involved was well connected politically.

To me it's an Irish version of Ozymandias.

funkey_monkey

Gael23 wrote: »

Why did he shoot a cow near the end of the show?

Was it not to show that his land and stock was being affected by the Intel factory?

Box09

Looks like he has no scheme payments according to cap beneficiaries database

Call me Al

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Was it not to show that his land and stock was being affected by the Intel factory?

He implied at the start that all the deaths of animals on his property started in the 80s when the plant arrived. He even showed us that rabbit that was dead and said it had been poisoned and he knew that because no other animals were scavenging it. Yes it might have been poisoned. But that could be done by anyone, including (and highly likely) other farmers. And there would be official Dept of Agriculture records for abnormal ly high rates of farm animal deaths in the area if it was as he claimed. But then I have a feeling he thinks it's all a cover-up. And the Dept of Agriculture are in on it too.

Donald Trump

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

So when should a CPO be applied?

For roads - motorways, bad corners, etc... Everyone benefits here, so is this acceptable? Same for trains or any public transport...
For housing - housing crisis in Dublin apparently, should some disused lots or brownfield sites be CPO’d for social housing?

Personally - I don’t think the IDA or any public body should be able to CPO land at the drop of a hat. But - I also think there should be some way to CPO land, be that through An Bord Planala or whoever...

If a private corporation would like to purchase some property, then there is one ancient obscure mechanism by which they can do so. There is this thing called money. Some people like it. They can approach the owner of the property and say "hey dude, do you like money? How about you swap me your property and I give you all this money?". If aforementioned dude (or dudess) says "ah no, your grand. You keep your money and I'll keep my property" then the private corporation can take its money and instead offer it to their next preferential choice.


If I want a new laptop and I don't want to pay the full price for it and its expensive Intel Inside® CPU chip, I don't expect the government to force them to sell it to me at a lower price.

Jupiter Mulligan

Donald Trump wrote: »

If I want a new laptop and I don't want to pay the full price for it and its expensive Intel Inside® CPU chip, I don't expect the government to force them to sell it to me at a lower price.

That's a shockingly poor analogy. Write out "I must try harder" 1,000 times.

Dinzee Conlee

Donald Trump wrote: »

If a private corporation would like to purchase some property, then there is one ancient obscure mechanism by which they can do so. There is this thing called money. Some people like it. They can approach the owner of the property and say "hey dude, do you like money? How about you swap me your property and I give you all this money?". If aforementioned dude (or dudess) says "ah no, your grand. You keep your money and I'll keep my property" then the private corporation can take its money and instead offer it to their next preferential choice.


If I want a new laptop and I don't want to pay the full price for it and its expensive Intel Inside® CPU chip, I don't expect the government to force them to sell it to me at a lower price.

That’s a purchase, not a CPO - which doesn’t directly answer the first line of my post “So when should a CPO be applied?”

Maybe you mean a CPO should never be used if there is any private company involved, which is fair enough...

Not sure how that works with toll roads, given they are some public/private partnership? Is it the gov owns the motorway, but the toll company leases it off them so to speak, and we then pay the toll company?

Donald Trump

Cattlepen wrote: »

The “they” I refer to is the IDA. Like I said in an earlier post, i’ve Been through 2 CPO’s. One became a toll toll road which is a business and the other was by Dublin corporation. They then built Wyeth factory on it. I’ve no problem with either. We got well paid for it the same way Reid was getting well paid.

"toll road" is technically still a public road. It is usually constructed as a public-private partnership where the private sector puts up the capital to build the road (or bridge) and in return can collect a toll on its usage for X years. After which time it reverts fully back to the State. It is a capital raising mechanism. It is not the same thing as CPO'ing that land to hand over to the business.





If you are happy to have land siezed under CPO, then surely you would logically be at least equally as happy to have been offered the same money directly and privately.

Jupiter Mulligan

People have problems with the concept of a CPO when private property is involved, yet every day landlords are forced by government to accept HAP tenants into their privately owned property whether or not they want to.

Go figure!

Donald Trump

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

That’s a purchase, not a CPO - which doesn’t directly answer the first line of my post “So when should a CPO be applied?”

Maybe you mean a CPO should never be used if there is any private company involved, which is fair enough...

Not sure how that works with toll roads, given they are some public/private partnership? Is it the gov owns the motorway, but the toll company leases it off them so to speak, and we then pay the toll company?

Yes, my point is that a private company can purchase it if they want it. Why are these fellas so quick to try to sieze family land from a poor oul' eejit but yet there are landbanks sitting unused and in private developers hands all around greater Dublin area. Never mind sieze them, the government won't even tax them for not putting them to use.



Only time a CPO should be used is if it is genuinely for public use and is needed - as in building a motorway etc.



I hadn't seen your post about the tolls when I gave response above. But having a toll is just a capital raising mechanism. The private sector is putting up the money and taking "risk" so that the state does not have to.


Speaking of tolls, the government paid those guys (NTR?) hundreds of millions of for the M50 toll when it was in the conditions of the toll that the toll station was not to impede or slow traffic. Which it obviously did. So the state could have just enforced it's legally contracted agreement there. But they wouldn't take them on. Yet they'll happily jump onto the little fella and take the bit he has.

Dinzee Conlee

Donald Trump wrote: »

"toll road" is technically still a public road. It is usually constructed as a public-private partnership where the private sector puts up the capital to build the road (or bridge) and in return can collect a toll on its usage for X years. After which time it reverts fully back to the State. It is a capital raising mechanism. It is not the same thing as CPO'ing that land to hand over to the business.

If you are happy to have land siezed under CPO, then surely you would logically be at least equally as happy to have been offered the same money directly and privately.

But isn’t the point of the CPO, the compulsory part?
It’s not just a purchase, it’s a compulsory one...

I imagine lads who lost land to motorways may not have chosen to have their farms halved or whatever, but that’s where the compulsory part comes in...

I don’t know enough about the intel case to say much...

I just think we need to think about when CPO should be used...
As I said before, I am ok with them, as long as it’s a proper, fair, transparent process...

I see CPOs are being used in Kerry for a new greenway - which in a way, should be similar to what happened for motorways in other places. But they are being viewed differently in this case - why I don’t know... (maybe the land access or crossing ability in the greenway is lessened vs a motorway?)