Full Ironman in cork next year

Sounds like even if the sea conditions had been okay the swim would have been curtailed due to low water temperatures....Does anyone know what rules they follow for minimum water temperatures. The ITU rules seem to indicate water temp must be 16C+ to do a 4000m swim. THat would not be normal in June in Ireland!

Maybe ironman have their own temp rules....Anyone know what they are ?

Was down at this supporting a friend yesterday and the weather was appalling. Can't describe how rotten a day it was. From talking to athletics, traders, other spectators and bus drivers, here's what I picked up:

Swim was cancelled due to the cold and if someone had got in trouble, they couldn't rescue them so they had no choice,
They were handing out blankets to people starting the run as they were so cold and were pulling people off the run if they were showing signs of hypothermia,
They left athletes standing around for 2 to 3 hours before they cancelled the swim and started the cycling. - Athlete told me this when he wasn't allowed through the bike transition as 4 minutes outside it.

From what I saw myself, spectators' transportation was very poor. We went into the rugby club and drove around it and were sent out again to go into a field that was hastily opened for traffic. By the time we left, it was a bog and any non rural people were sliding all over the place. My city dweller passenger thought we'd be sleeping the night in the field. Thanks to a farm background, I got out fine but there was no one to help anyone get out like a jeep for the people after 8 pm. Buses to get into the town were 3 in total which wasn't enough on a terrible day as we stood around for 20 minutes with no information or buses. If the weather had been fine and more came out to look, it would have been a right mess.

Fair play to Youghal as any shop, cafe, pub we went into were incredibly helpful and nice. Every place must have been a mess after the day. Apparently next year is when they will judge the town on whether they get another contract after the 3 years but the townsfolk won't be the fault of it not getting kept on yesterday's showing.

They had plenty bikes doing TV coverage but they didn't have any plastic over the cameras. I saw them across from me putting plastic bags over one camera that looked like it came from a nearby store. Thought that quite funny to say the least!

Anyone who got onto a bike in Youghal yesterday gets major kudos from me, regardless of whether you finished or not.

Beautiful weather in Cork today...typical!

Was down supporting yesterday, fair play to anyone who finished in those conditions. Was still a great atmosphere there considering. The spectators really got behind the event.

TopOfTheHill wrote: »

What are the chances of it being moved to a bit later in the summer - or has 2020 date been set already?

Date set and registration I believe is already open or very soon for certain categories like deferrals. This years racers have also been given 100 euro off next years race if they sign up before June 30th. It is on June 21st next year

20rothmans wrote: »

Actually I checked and I now see that Triathlon Ireland have derogation from the ITU rules with respect to water temperatures. It states the different distances the minimum temp and when to shorten or cancel.

Need to be 14C+ to do a 3800 swim.
13-14 then it would be shortened to 3000m.
12-13 shorten to 1500m
11-12 shorten to 750m
Less than 11. Cancel swim

https://triathlonireland.com/Image-Document-Library/Documents/2019%20ITU%20Derogation%20List.pdf

If they are going by TI rules it sounds like water temp of 14 or above is not guaranteed in June.

Haven't done Triathlon in a long time but when I did do them there were 2 occasions when the swim was cancelled, one due to lower water temperatures and the other due to supposed rough seas. In my view, neither warranted cancellation of the swim. Water temp may have been below regs in Valentia but it was flat and calm. And in the other, the swim was mainly parallel to the shoreline and breaking waves were small and close to shore.

It just strikes me in general as being too easy to cancel swims and for many the swim is the main reason for doing one. I suspect that if there was a mandatory partial refund (about a third) shared by both the organizers and TI then regs may change slightly (or the application of them will soften) and marginal conditions would be viewed through different eyes.

I also wonder about running larger events in open seas as there are plenty of lakes and protected bays around the country. In general these events should consider typical worst cases water conditions at that time of year for the location and if they would cancel the swim in these conditions, then find a location where they wouldn't cancel.

I’ve been doing tri for 12 seasons and only ever had two swims cancelled prior to yesterday - one for poor conditions and one for water quality issues. Yesterday’s decision was far from marginal, it was the obvious choice. Look at the number of people who spent a really long time in T2 after a long cold wet bike. Imagine the carnage if they had swum first. There were people who ran the entire marathon wearing foil blankets / with foil blankets stuffed inside their clothes.

You need clear rules / guidance for swim safety otherwise organisers will be under pressure to run events under unsafe conditions. Applying financial penalties for a non swim event would just push organisers into poor decision making.

No organiser wants to cancels a swim, why would they? It’s every race committee’s worst nightmare. We all know the rules (or we should do) when we enter and the risks of swim cancellations, especialy in Ireland. It’s a pain but what can you do?

I did Hardman in 2016 in similar conditions to yesterday and even though that is a lake swim the call to allow the swim was only made last minute and it was the roughest swim I’ve ever done. I think about a quarter of the field were pulled out of the water that day from about 80 racers. Imagine that scenario with over 2000 people in the water.

RacoonQueen wrote: »

rooneyjm wrote: »

That’s the kind of smart arse comment you would get from IM, you should ask them for a job.

It's not a comment it is a question. Why don't you answer it?

Just keep reading, u don’t have to take my word for it. 101 reasons why people might not be happy.

What’s coming to light from the last few pages is the full swim was a high risk (based on temp) from day one regardless of weather.
So IM took a million quid in full knowledge that the would more than likely have to cut to swim. They should wear balaclavas.

20rothmans wrote: »

Actually I checked and I now see that Triathlon Ireland have derogation from the ITU rules with respect to water temperatures. It states the different distances the minimum temp and when to shorten or cancel.

Need to be 14C+ to do a 3800 swim.
13-14 then it would be shortened to 3000m.
12-13 shorten to 1500m
11-12 shorten to 750m
Less than 11. Cancel swim

https://triathlonireland.com/Image-Document-Library/Documents/2019%20ITU%20Derogation%20List.pdf

If they are going by TI rules it sounds like water temp of 14 or above is not guaranteed in June.

Reaching temperatures of 14C+ would be wishful thinking in the first place, Yes/No? The average temperatures off Youghal for June are below 14C. Seemingly 13.5 is the average with the lowest over several years at just over 11 and the highest just under 16.

I've been swimming skins for 3 years now so it just didn't register with me that the swim could be cancelled due to water temperature. I did enter and pay an extortionate entry fee in the full knowledge a cancelled swim due to bad weather was a risk. Irrespective of water temperature when I seen that Met Eireann had issued a small craft warning for Sunday on Saturday evening I knew the swim was going to be cancelled.

There was a lot of mention of this race https://triathlonmagazine.ca/news/two-athletes-die-at-ironman-south-africa/ on the morning of the race so you can see why IM err on the side of caution. I spoke to an American entrant and he had had a river swim cancelled at IM Maryland in 2016 due to bad weather so it happens. It wasn't my first IM so it didn't bother me too much (apart from the fact the swim is my best leg) but I did feel sorry for first timers.

What p!ssed me off on Sunday morning was the sense of confusion that seem to reign. It seemed to take ages for a decision to be made and then for the release of athletes to happen. Being asked to 'stand by your bike' for hours in heavy rain whilst awaiting an invitation into the changing tent to get your bike gear on, being asked to leave your end of race dry bag beside your rack space in the pissing rain and then queue for an age, again in the rain, to get onto the course seemed very haphazard. There were people who looked hypothermic before they even got near the course. I was standing beside a lady whose race number said she was in the 70-74 age group and she was shivering uncontrollably whilst we waited to start, and she was well wrapped up! (she didn't finish the bike).

I don't blame the organisers about cancelling the swim but they could have communicated a bit better with us and been quicker in getting us onto the course.

Was I the only one who thought Mike Reilly sounded a bit p!ssed off at the start as he explained to the huddled masses that they were still going to be ironmen when they finished, swim or no swim, and that he'd still call us over the line, and we could take it however we wished. He then told us IM was more about the journey and the decision to race rather than the actual race

I'll stick a race report in my moribund training log at some stage but some thoughts -

The Good

1. The support on the course was amazing - where did all them cow bells come from? If the weather had been good there would have been many thousands of spectators. Hats off to the people of Youghal and Cork. The level of support on show would be the reason I would race this event again.
2. I liked the accurate bike (179.75kms) and run (42.4kms) courses. I enjoyed the bike route, not flat but not particularly tough (apart from Windmill Hill).
3. The volunteers were all brilliant and deserve serious kudos for standing in the rain all day
4. I like my new €500 back pack that I got at registration
5. Apart from the cancelled swim issues outlined above the organisation was excellent

The Bad

1. There were complaints about the lack of toilets on the bike and run. One American I spoke to was not happy about this!
2. The finisher T shirt is cheap and not very nice
3. The recovery tent was poor I thought - a slice of pizza and some manky swiss roll was all that was on offer inside. I did like the free ice cream cone from the van outside the tent though.
4. The quagmire in the carpark was a pain at the end but I only got delayed for about 90 minutes and more tractors arrived quickly to pull us out.
5. Everything was wet - my dry bag at the end of the race was full of wet gear from being left on the open that morning, the changing tent was full of water so getting out of wet bike gear into dry running gear was a pain
6. The biggest negative for me was being able to walk into transition after the race with a mate who hadn't competed and remove my bike and bags without being checked. There was one lady checking wristbands but she was massively overworked and we just walked past her. That's a serious no no at any race.

If the weather had played ball this would have been an amazing race. It was still a great day, made so by the support and the volunteers. I'd do it again, but maybe not next year (I need to try one of these flat warm Ironmans :pac:)

Edit: Almost a 24% DNF rate - https://www.coachcox.co.uk/2019/06/24/ironman-ireland-2019-age-group-results-and-kona-qualification/

griffin100 wrote: »

The Bad

1. There were complaints about the lack of toilets on the bike and run. One American I spoke to was not happy about this!
2. The finisher T shirt is cheap and not very nice
3. The recovery tent was poor I thought - a slice of pizza and some manky swiss roll was all that was on offer inside. I did like the free ice cream cone from the van outside the tent though.
4. The quagmire in the carpark was a pain at the end but I only got delayed for about 90 minutes and more tractors arrived quickly to pull us out.
5. Everything was wet - my dry bag at the end of the race was full of wet gear from being left on the open that morning, the changing tent was full of water so getting out of wet bike gear into dry running gear was a pain
6. The biggest negative for me was being able to walk into transition after the race with a mate who hadn't competed and remove my bike and bags without being checked. There was one lady checking wristbands but she was massively overworked and we just walked past her. That's a serious no no at any race.

I did laugh when I saw the t-shirt, it's cat.

I did get stuck in the car park two and then I realised I didn't have to drive out of the car park just to move the car so I blocked everything and they had to move me.

Likewise the food was very poor. Pizza was lovely granted - however in the IMs I've done there was a good selection, lots of food and lots of drinks. And always beer.

Massive respect to the locals, the town and the volunteers. Made the race.

TriFirst wrote: »

Would a lake swim as someone else suggested not make more sense for next year, from the point of view of less rough conditions and or temperature ?

its already there for 200 euro entance fee with the hardman... so this option is already availabele and evidently people dont care so much about it.

for the ironman out of interest where does this lake exist close to youghal , you are talking about ?

dont forget you need a lake and a community to invest some 500 000 euro . i suspect this does not exist in ireland.

TriFirst wrote: »

I was really looking forward to how Ironman would differ in standards of organisation compared to regular local TI sanctioned races here but it seems the latter do a better job than Ironman did even taking the weather into consideration. What exactly are people getting for 600 euros if Ironman failed on so many minor and some major points in respect of communication, safety amd all round organisation. The emphasis by competitors has rightly been on the contribution made by the locals and the volunteers who were paid nothing from Ironmans coffers so what do Ironman bring to the table exactly ? Other than the mystique of 'the brand', it seems very little.

As Peter says it’s the razzmatazz of an IM branded event. I’ve done Hardman 4 times and love it but they’re not comparable events. 2,000 people on closed roads versus less than 100 on an open Ring Of Kerry negotiating traffic. There was a buzz around Youghal from last week that you don’t get in Killarney IM milk it but it’s your choice to pay the ridiculous entry fees (I got an email today offering me photos from the race for €70-80 - milking it!!)

TriFirst wrote:

the volunteers who were paid nothing from Ironmans coffers so what do Ironman bring to the table exactly ? Other than the mystique of 'the brand', it seems very little.

This bit isn't true, the organisation's that were volunteering would have been paid per volunteer. My club stewarded at the Dublin event 2 years ago, used it as fundraising opportunity.