Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

blackcard · 22-06-2019 04:05PM

jm08 wrote: »

Boris looking very uncomforatable in interview (and refuses to talk about incident).

Its been streamed here for anyone who wants to watch. https://news.sky.com/story/watch-sky-news-live-10315632

He comes across as a chancer. He spent 10 minutes avoiding questions about the police being called to his girlfriend's flat. Then, he talks about 'creative ambiguity ' in relation to the Brexit divorce bill.

Headshot · 22-06-2019 04:09PM

What a buffoon, I love the way he keeps looking at the watch and dying to get out

Avoiding questions he doesnt like

Laois_Man · 22-06-2019 04:13PM

Headshot wrote: »

I tuned into it a bit late but did he actually explain how he's going to get the UK out of Europe?

Yes, in summary, BJ is still banging on about sorting out the Irish border in the FTA agreement after the UK leaves and he claims the EU will agree to invoking GATT 24 pending a FTA and doesnt accept that the EU wouldn't agree to such a thing

When questioned by Iain Dale of LBC on the domestic dispute matter on Thursday night, his predictable response was people don't want to hear about that kind of thing (to loud applause) and, despite continued badgering from Dale (to loud heckling in support of BJ), persisted in avoidance of the question for a further number of minutes....

Water John · 22-06-2019 04:22PM

Came to it late too but Boris performance is very poor. If this is, the great visionary, the Tories have, sad for England.
Being tetchy with his interviewer, reveals his true character.

BTW the chairs used are wierd, looks odd.

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 04:24PM

Tax breaks for the rich, more allowances and higher incomes for the poor. Life's going to be a dream in Boris land.

Water John · 22-06-2019 04:27PM

Really absurd to glance again at his watch and ask how much time left. If he doesn't want to be there, but he's showing absolute contempt for his electorate, the Conservative party members.

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 04:29PM

Its a waste of time because nothing he says is getting any sort of scrutiny, he's just waffling on and on and that'll be good enough for that crowd I reckon.

MrMusician18 · 22-06-2019 04:31PM

SNIP. Don't question mod warnings on thread.

Headshot · 22-06-2019 04:33PM

Standing ovation, it's quite sickening and just goes to show how the Conservatives downfall is their own making.

jm08 · 22-06-2019 04:38PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Tax breaks for the rich, more allowances and higher incomes for the poor. Life's going to be a dream in Boris land.

More police and bankers are great people!

Stop moaning ffs · 22-06-2019 04:40PM

Nody wrote: »

Here's the secret way to get around moderation lads; bring out those cornetto horses!

Seriously though I don't think it's so much drowning out as simply the continuation of the decades long stupidification of news. News have consistently been there to "explain" to people what to think. Over time as things move faster and faster and we don't sit down in front of the TV every night to find out what happened the news cycle has to be shorter, snappier and more attention grabbing instead. The specialists news are still out there but who want to read a 10.000 word article when you can get a headline of 5 words and move on to look at the page 6 eye candy (or insert what ever article you want such as football etc. depending on personal preferences) after all? And as it's in the newspaper it has to be true; or so we unconsciously assume after all since they are regulated. Add in confirmation bias growing stronger via echo chambers such as FB et al targeting to show you stuff you like only (to keep you around and keep you content) it simply builds on each other to provide you the information you want to hear/believe and as it's from multiple sources it has to be true after all.

All that coupled with the establishment and ownership of all media particularly in the UK. Information has been deweaponsied and replaced with agenda. THis is where the bbc have fallen so bizarrely and so far when they were usually on balance and accuracy as is their mission. None of their presenters or journalists are even now allowed have an opinion it has to be balanced. They have though somehow and That’s all gone south for them.

I’m no fan of Corbyn but I when he emerged I was immediately aware of a top down full on assault to takexhim down. The establishment wanted rid of him and deplatformed and they press were ruthless about it. And still are. I think he could have made great strides for change in Britain but it’s been years of just tearing Him apart daily in every medium has neutered any potential he had.
And again, I’m not a huge fan.

It is literally lords and elite elderly men smoking cigars and brandy that still runs that whole show over there, and it will continue to be. Until after a no deal brexit and the whole thing crashes down in a possibly violent way. And those fat cats and that establishment set up will somehow survive that, because ordinary Brits will always defer to their ‘betters’. It’s just how they are.

Christ that was rambly. Sorry.

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 04:42PM

I'd be worried that every negative story about Johnson between now and coronation day is going to add £xxbns to the national deficit. They'd be decades paying for it, if he even honoured half his promises.

Water John · 22-06-2019 04:42PM

Jeremy takes a risk with his opening, fair play to him. The contrast with Boris is massive but they won't see it.

Laois_Man · 22-06-2019 04:46PM

I dont understand Hunt's angle on matching Irish Corp Tax - "Landing an economic jumbo jet on Europe's doorstep forcing them to need us"....surely that would actually dissuade the EU from wanting to give the UK free access to its market?

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 04:47PM

He's making it look as if its not too much of a chore at least, unlikely the last chap. Comes across as a bit of a nothing candidate to me, but we are in anyone but Boris land here so best of luck to him!

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 04:51PM

Is he back to saying he's going to cosy up to the DUP? Where has that got them thus far?

Strazdas · 22-06-2019 04:58PM

Hunt is having to come out with a load of hard Brexit nonsense even though he probably doesn't even believe in it - any Conservative who goes off the hard Brexit message and doesn't tell the loons what they want to hear is toast.

Laois_Man · 22-06-2019 05:17PM

Hunt almost blatantly saying BJ is a liar who shouldn't be trusted.....but his own plan on reopening the WA; the answer will be to do with border technology on the border!

:D:D:D

Shelga · 22-06-2019 05:45PM

Hunt lost me when he said that the economic pain of a no deal Brexit would not be as bad as the political pain of not Brexiting. Crazy that we live in times where that is just accepted as something normal to say. And I don’t think he believes that himself.

Hunt seems like a nice man but I had a friend who was a nurse in the UK when the junior doctors’ strike was happening, and Hunt seemed to be universally despised by everyone in the NHS. Not a great track record for a wannabe PM.

Absolutely pathetic choices for the next leader of the UK. The circus rumbles on!

Headshot · 22-06-2019 05:46PM

Surprisingly Hunt put in a real good performance, much better than the recent debates but unfortunately he still believes in unicorns but I think he has to get a chance to be PM

Stop moaning ffs · 22-06-2019 06:33PM

Where are the DUP right how does anyone know?
My personal bet is they’re bricking themselves.
All of this. All of it. (Well the majority of it) Easily solved by a border in the sea.

They’ve been eerily quiet.

Are the remaining (no pun intended) candidates courting them?
Or are they not?

I would love nothing better than to see them thrown under the bus with great force.

Nody · 22-06-2019 07:01PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Where are the DUP right how does anyone know?
My personal bet is they’re bricking themselves.
All of this. All of it. (Well the majority of it) Easily solved by a border in the sea.

They’ve been eerily quiet.

Are the remaining (no pun intended) candidates courting them?
Or are they not?

I would love nothing better than to see them thrown under the bus with great force.

I disagree; they are sitting on the side line until the PM is in place. They will then inform the new PM that their votes are still his as long as NI get's the billion pounds and they don't get any special rules; if not they will vote to throw the PM out.

As both PMs are promising Brexit without the border I don't think they are overly concerned yet; not until / if the PM starts going for a Labour pull in to their deal in some form which is unlikely to fly anyway.

LeinsterDub · 22-06-2019 07:10PM

Shelga wrote: »

Hunt lost me when he said that the economic pain of a no deal Brexit would not be as bad as the political pain of not Brexiting. Crazy that we live in times where that is just accepted as something normal to say. And I don’t think he believes that himself.

Hunt seems like a nice man but I had a friend who was a nurse in the UK when the junior doctors’ strike was happening, and Hunt seemed to be universally despised by everyone in the NHS. Not a great track record for a wannabe PM.

Absolutely pathetic choices for the next leader of the UK. The circus rumbles on!

He means for the Tory party not the UK as a whole

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 07:16PM

I'd say the DUP will be wary of Johnson, very wary. This is the chap, after all, they invited as a keynote speaker at their agm last year to hear him talk tough about how he was going to "junk" the backstop, yet just a couple of months later there he is endorsing the damn thing in the Commons by voting for the WA.

Whatever happens on 31 October, i'd lay any money on the confidence & supply arrangement breaking down pretty swiftly under Johnson. If he does indeed make it that far, i'd also wonder if there isn't some vague scheme there to try to orchestrate a very early GE, under not unfavourable terms, by which he might be able to dump the whole inconvenient arrangement at the soonest possible opportunity.

Stop moaning ffs · 22-06-2019 07:22PM

Was the agreement not ‘the DUP have an agreement with Theresa May. Not the Conservative party’?

Thought I heard that a some point

Stop moaning ffs · 22-06-2019 07:24PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I'd say the DUP will be wary of Johnson, very wary. This is the chap, after all, they invited as a keynote speaker at their agm last year to hear him talk tough about how he was going to "junk" the backstop, yet just a couple of months later there he is endorsing the damn thing in the Commons by voting for the WA.

Whatever happens on 31 October, i'd lay any money on the confidence & supply arrangement breaking down pretty swiftly under Johnson. If he does indeed make it that far, i'd also wonder if there isn't some vague scheme there to try to orchestrate a very early GE, under not unfavourable terms, by which he might be able to dump the whole inconvenient arrangement at the soonest possible opportunity.

Agreed. Johnson won’t hesitate to throw them overboard if it means he gets to deliver brexit.

It’s the only option open to him to deliver it as far as I can tell.
Border in the sea.
Eu agree.
WA signed.
DUP pull support.
General election gets called.
He sails in as pm cos
‘Brexit delivered’

LeinsterDub · 22-06-2019 07:38PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Was the agreement not ‘the DUP have an agreement with Theresa May. Not the Conservative party’?

Thought I heard that a some point

This is an argument in the same vein that the UK didn't agree to pay 39 billion to the EU; May did. It's complete nonsense

Joe_ Public · 22-06-2019 07:38PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Agreed. Johnson won’t hesitate to throw them overboard if it means he gets to deliver brexit.

It’s the only option open to him to deliver it as far as I can tell.
Border in the sea.
Eu agree.
WA signed.
DUP pull support.
General election gets called.
He sails in as pm cos
‘Brexit delivered’

If he could get away with that, i've no doubt he'd go for it. Problem is, i think, there's a dyed in the wool strain of toryism (the bit that goes by the conservative & unionist party title) that i doubt would let that happen. Gove for one would rebel and probably take a few colleagues with him. Whatever, i just dont think throwing the DUP under the bus is a simple solution.

I do agree that a GE, however he gets it, is the best outcome for Johnson. But i dont think he wants to call one without a good reason. He could, say, go the prorogueing route, knowing he will be thwarted and then able to go to the country saying, 'look, betrayed by parliament yet again....give me a majority and i'll go back and sort them for once and for all.' How feasible any of that is, i'm not sure, but i think it's possible he may be thinking at least someway along those lines.

An Claidheamh · 22-06-2019 07:43PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Whatever way this all shakes out I hope someone somewhere remembers to give Tony Connolly an award. And lots of money.
His coverage has been outstanding. A clear and accurate voice in the neverending storm of bs and agenda.

The Brits don’t have a single journalist that can hold a candle to him. Which is a real shame.

Must admit, I never really bothered listening to his reports from Brussels before Brexit.

He clearly knows his stuff and can be trusted to have reliable sources.

Although the British coverage is just underlying biased wishful thinking jingoism

Stop moaning ffs · 22-06-2019 07:44PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

If he could get away with that, i've no doubt he'd go for it. Problem is, i think, there's a dyed in the wool strain of toryism (the bit that goes by the conservative & unionist party title) that i doubt would let that happen. Gove for one would rebel and probably take a few colleagues with him. Whatever, i just dont think throwing the DUP under the bus is a simple solution.

I do agree that a GE, however he gets it, is the best outcome for Johnson. But i dont think he wants to call one without a good reason. He could, say, go the prorogueing route, knowing he will be thwarted and then able to go to the country saying, 'look, betrayed by parliament yet again....give me a majority and i'll go back and sort them for once and for all.' How feasible any of that is, i'm not sure, but i think it's possible he may be thinking at least someway along those lines.

It’s mad right? Anything could happen especially with Boris at the helm.
Fact remains the next PM has the same wall his predecessor faced. He’s amazing at spin is Boris. How will he spin it when it’s on him?

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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