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Housing crisis- the elephant in the room

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  • 17-06-2019 10:05pm
    #1
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭


    So cards on the table regarding a few comments here and there people have made on other threads.

    To anyone who has a maths ability beyond senior infants, a contributory factor to the shortage of affordable rental property in urban areas in Ireland is migration. It isn't the only cause, but it is the main one, yet not a single one of the politicians who do the loudest ranting about the housing crisis will touch it with a barge pole. Solidarity, PBP, Sinn Fein, they don't want to know. To admit the problem isn't to be racist to anyone- I don't hold a grudge towards anyone for coming here to improve their lot. But at a time of essentially national emergency, the crisis could be cooled nearly overnight with a few simple measures

    - temporarily suspend EU free movement. Initiate a system of work permits- migrants are admitted according to their experience/ intended work sector. People are allowed in for specified skill shortage areas like construction and IT. People are not allowed in to work in warehouses for 9.80 an hour. End result- less rental pressure and employers can no longer take the piss with rates offered.

    - pull out of any EU refugee relocation scheme that involves us providing housing out of our own taxes. A country that has people on social housing lists for 12 years that suddenly realises it can find Syrians a permanent home within 3 months of arrival is a sick society.

    - audit the welfare and social housing rolls for current residents from abroad, to weed out those who haven't put a shift in. If a previous government's incompetence resulted in you being allowed to stay, and an audit shows you've spent most of that time on welfare, home you go.


    What is so radical and unspeakable about these ideas? Why won't any mainstream political party of TD address the issue? To my knowledge a handful of SF, Labour and FG local councillors who dared raise the issue were either censured or outright kicked out of their respective parties.

    I mean, look at this. Just look (registration required)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/human-rights-challenge-issued-to-social-housing-policy-for-non-irish-f6vhfnr20?t=ie

    A gypsy family arrive in the country, work for all of 3 months, spent two years in a homeless hub at god knows how much cost to the state while fighting legal aid cases to be entitled to dole (successfully) and entitled to subsidised housing (pending)

    Or where were the pricks from Raise the Roof and Home Sweet Home when Kilkenny council was buying properties, knowing tenants would be evicted, because it decided some folks from abroad were a better class of people?

    http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/ferrybank-housing-reshuffle/

    What kind of a parallel ****ing universe am I living in where all this is acceptable conduct? Where politicians are so afraid of being labelled as racist that they will stand by and have people kicked out of their homes to make way for new arrivals?


«13456

Comments

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    #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Popcorn in the microwave.


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    #3
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    It's about time somebody brought up immigration. It's never talked about.


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    #4
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Ferrybank isnt kilkenny....its waterfords


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    #5
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,280 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    A free market approach to migration and for some reason some of those people then want a Socialized housing solution.

    Pick one or the other.


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    #6
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,785 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    How can you have an ever expanding economy which is what we seem to base success of the country on without immigrants to do the jobs?


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    #7
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Aren’t immigrants more likely to be working than the natives?

    Seems like we need more immigrants and less natives.


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    #8
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    I should probably point out something.


    Do I think Sharon and her 5 kids are better than Syrians?

    No.

    Do I think Sharon deserves a free house for a lifetime of sloth, ignorance and criminality?

    No.

    However, we are stuck with her type. And I'd sooner see her in a bricks and mortar council house than bleeding the public purse dry living in subsidised rental on a private estate for the next 30 years. As the more people like her taken out of private rental the more prices will fall for the rest of us.


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    #9
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    amcalester wrote: »
    Aren’t immigrants more likely to be working than the natives?

    Seems like we need more immigrants and less natives.

    Leo said something similar. It's highly subjective.

    There's little to no Chinese welfare warriors.

    The same cant be said for East Europeans of Roma extraction.


  • Options
    #10
    Balanadan
    Site Banned Posts: 725 ✭✭✭Balanadan


    ClintPower wrote: »
    So cards on the table regarding a few comments here and there people have made on other threads.

    To anyone who has a maths ability beyond senior infants, a contributory factor to the shortage of affordable rental property in urban areas in Ireland is migration. It isn't the only cause, but it is the main one, yet not a single one of the politicians who do the loudest ranting about the housing crisis will touch it with a barge pole. Solidarity, PBP, Sinn Fein, they don't want to know. To admit the problem isn't to be racist to anyone- I don't hold a grudge towards anyone for coming here to improve their lot. But at a time of essentially national emergency, the crisis could be cooled nearly overnight with a few simple measures

    - temporarily suspend EU free movement. Initiate a system of work permits- migrants are admitted according to their experience/ intended work sector. People are allowed in for specified skill shortage areas like construction and IT. People are not allowed in to work in warehouses for 9.80 an hour. End result- less rental pressure and employers can no longer take the piss with rates offered.

    - pull out of any EU refugee relocation scheme that involves us providing housing out of our own taxes. A country that has people on social housing lists for 12 years that suddenly realises it can find Syrians a permanent home within 3 months of arrival is a sick society.

    - audit the welfare and social housing rolls for current residents from abroad, to weed out those who haven't put a shift in. If a previous government's incompetence resulted in you being allowed to stay, and an audit shows you've spent most of that time on welfare, home you go.


    What is so radical and unspeakable about these ideas? Why won't any mainstream political party of TD address the issue? To my knowledge a handful of SF, Labour and FG local councillors who dared raise the issue were either censured or outright kicked out of their respective parties.

    I mean, look at this. Just look (registration required)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/human-rights-challenge-issued-to-social-housing-policy-for-non-irish-f6vhfnr20?t=ie

    A gypsy family arrive in the country, work for all of 3 months, spent two years in a homeless hub at god knows how much cost to the state while fighting legal aid cases to be entitled to dole (successfully) and entitled to subsidised housing (pending)

    Or where were the pricks from Raise the Roof and Home Sweet Home when Kilkenny council was buying properties, knowing tenants would be evicted, because it decided some folks from abroad were a better class of people?

    http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/ferrybank-housing-reshuffle/

    What kind of a parallel ****ing universe am I living in where all this is acceptable conduct? Where politicians are so afraid of being labelled as racist that they will stand by and have people kicked out of their homes to make way for new arrivals?

    We need people from abroad to come work here. There are Irish people who are simply happy to live off our very generous welfare system so we need productive, skilled people to pay for them. Why don't you focus your attention on cutting the dole instead?


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    #11
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    How can you have an ever expanding economy which is what we seem to base success of the country on without immigrants to do the jobs?

    Hence have a permit scheme, fields that need staff, get staff.


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    #12
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    lulz


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    #13
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    Balanadan wrote: »
    We need people from abroad to come work here. There are Irish people who are simply happy to live off our very generous welfare system so we need productive, skilled people to pay for them. Why don't you focus your attention on cutting the dole instead?

    I'd very much approve of the dole being replaced with food vouchers for anyone below a certain age if it has become apparent that they view welfare as a career option.


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    #14
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ClintPower wrote: »

    What kind of a parallel ****ing universe am I living in where all this is acceptable conduct?

    The annoying universe where school monitors have all the power.


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    #15
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,785 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ClintPower wrote: »
    Hence have a permit scheme, fields that need staff, get staff.

    I think we do have that at the moment, plus anyone from the EU can move here same as we can go anywhere in the EU as many of us have.


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    #16
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    ClintPower wrote: »
    Leo said something similar. It's highly subjective.

    There's little to no Chinese welfare warriors.

    The same cant be said for East Europeans of Roma extraction.

    Backed up by the Journal with CSO data.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-varadkar-immigrants-4273981-Oct2018/


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    #17
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    lulz

    Do you find a council evicting tenants to replace them with refugees amusing?

    Do you find it amusing that a gypsy family who did 3 months work in the state are living in state emergency accommodation while pursuing nuisance court cases for free in a bid to get dole payments and a house?

    Do you find that amusing?


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    #18
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ClintPower wrote: »
    I should probably point out something.


    Do I think Sharon and her 5 kids are better than Syrians?

    No.

    Do I think Sharon deserves a free house for a lifetime of sloth, ignorance and criminality?

    No.

    However, we are stuck with her type. And I'd sooner see her in a bricks and mortar council house than bleeding the public purse dry living in subsidised rental on a private estate for the next 30 years. As the more people like her taken out of private rental the more prices will fall for the rest of us.


    I could reduce you to a stereotype too.

    But what good would it do?

    You might be a nice bloke in other ways. Who knows.

    So might sharon.

    You might like sharon if you met her.


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    #19
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    We have signed multiple treaties allowing for the free movement with the EU.


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    #20
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    amcalester wrote: »
    Backed up by the Journal with CSO data.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-varadkar-immigrants-4273981-Oct2018/

    From memory Roma have an unemployment rate here exceeding 90 percent.


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    #21
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    We have signed multiple treaties allowing for the free movement with the EU.

    We have the right to get rid of EU nationals who have no work history nd no means to support themselves.

    France has done mass deportations of them in the past.

    We put them in homeless hubs and give them assistance to sue our own government to secure dole and social housing rights.


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    #22
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ClintPower wrote: »
    Do you find a council evicting tenants to replace them with refugees amusing?

    Do you find it amusing that a gypsy family who did 3 months work in the state are living in state emergency accommodation while pursuing nuisance court cases for free in a bid to get dole payments and a house?

    Do you find that amusing?


    Councils had no issues evicting tenants back in the 40s in fact it happened more often then.


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    #23
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    I left the immersion on all night... Bleedin For-in-ors


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    #24
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,760 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    I think we could free up a lot of accommodation space if we removed the pachyderm.


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    #25
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ClintPower wrote: »
    We have the right to get rid of EU nationals who have no work history nd no means to support themselves.

    France has done mass deportations of them in the past.

    We put them in homeless hubs and give them assistance to sue our own government to secure dole and social housing rights.


    Just get on with your own life.


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    #26
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    I wonder if there'd be fewer immigration threads on AH if members had to have a certain amount of posts under their belt before being allowed to start a thread. Wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of Racist Rereginalds trying to turn AH into Stormfront-lite (decent moderation would be required too - but that's something that's been sadly lacking on here for a long time), but it'd be a start.


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    #27
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    ClintPower wrote: »
    From memory Roma have an unemployment rate here exceeding 90 percent.

    So ban all immigrants because some are unemployed?


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    #28
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,716 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    ClintPower wrote: »
    amcalester wrote: »
    Backed up by the Journal with CSO data.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-varadkar-immigrants-4273981-Oct2018/

    From memory Roma have an unemployment rate here exceeding 90 percent.
    Yes but we cannot pick and choose EU Citizens any more then we can choose Irish ones. How many Roma are in the rental market? A lot more Polish people living near me and working do we ban them too? What about UK citizens? Or just the Roma?


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    #29
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I wouldn't say EU migration is an issue as such. There should be free movement in the EU the condition though they shouldn't be allowed draw any social welfare or even so much as put their name on the housing list. EU rules also state that immigrants within the EU must have a means of supporting themselves and if they don't we can send them back to wherever they came from. The problem is our government will gladly give them the handouts they desire at the expense of the taxpayer and the oppurtunity cost of building housing for the Irish.

    Then the next major issue is Direct Provision. End the scam now build a holding centre at the Airport allow them have their case for asylum heard without the need for any free legal aid. If they have a genuine case for asylum which most don't allow them to stay in a refugee centre and if they don't let appeal send them home on the first available flight out of the country.

    I bet you if you asked most of the people in DP would they swap places with the Irish who are sleeping outside the GPO they would say not a chance and the Irish sleeping rough would love to stay in DP centre. Fact is they are looking for a free ride and it must end asap but our spineless politicians in government wish to let it continue to bleed our country dry.


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    #30
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    ClintPower wrote: »
    From memory Roma have an unemployment rate here exceeding 90 percent.

    Do you know what our own gypsy unemployment rate is off the top of your head?


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    #31
    ClintPower
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 73 ✭✭ClintPower


    Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »
    I wonder if there'd be fewer immigration threads on AH if members had to have a certain amount of posts under their belt before being allowed to start a thread. Wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of Racist Rereginalds trying to turn AH into Stormfront-lite (decent moderation would be required too - but that's something that's been sadly lacking on here for a long time), but it'd be a start.

    Ah waycist thi waycist that.

    Serious question or two.

    1- Do you approve of councils buying property with the knowledge that tenants will be evicted, so that they can move refugees in?

    2- Do you think a Romanian family who worked all of three months should be entitled to circa 10,000 each per annum in dole payments and a social house that, if new, will cost the state anywhere between 140,000 and 350,000?

    Can someone explain to me how any of that is acceptable?


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