Housing crisis- the elephant in the room

vriesmays

Asking someone who's banned a question.

Bigbagofcans

vriesmays wrote: »

Asking someone who's banned a question.

I'm sure "Clint" will be back under another profile.

Mad_maxx

Stephen15 wrote: »

They are mostly run by immigrants for immigrants such as Polish or Halal shops. Tesco would still be in business from native Irish customers even if they didn't have a Polish section.



And that is why I'm in favour of controlled legal immigration and would like to see an Australian style points system where immigrants that fulfill the nessecary skills and come and work in the jobs where there is a shortage of skilled Irish workers.

Immigration should be used to benefit the host country not the immigrants themselves but that's not what's happening here.



Would be no loss. Gambling is a scourge on society that prays on the poor, weak and vulnerable.



Not what I've seen from any Poles I've come across most I've come across are looking to save as much money as possible for when they go back to Poland on holidays or permanently. Also the Polish economy is growing anyway so more are staying at home.

I'd say most of the latest fashion gear the Nigerians are wearing is obtained on the black market.

Poles are as tight as tuppence

SEPT 23 1989

The wide open space that was America in the 19th century needed people badly

How does that compare to a small island in 2019 that can barely look after their own?

Graham

We have one of the lowest population densities in Europe if that's your unusual criteria for immigration.

rosmoke

ClintPower wrote: »

So cards on the table regarding a few comments here and there people have made on other threads.

To anyone who has a maths ability beyond senior infants, a contributory factor to the shortage of affordable rental property in urban areas in Ireland is migration. It isn't the only cause, but it is the main one, yet not a single one of the politicians who do the loudest ranting about the housing crisis will touch it with a barge pole. Solidarity, PBP, Sinn Fein, they don't want to know. To admit the problem isn't to be racist to anyone- I don't hold a grudge towards anyone for coming here to improve their lot. But at a time of essentially national emergency, the crisis could be cooled nearly overnight with a few simple measures

- temporarily suspend EU free movement. Initiate a system of work permits- migrants are admitted according to their experience/ intended work sector. People are allowed in for specified skill shortage areas like construction and IT. People are not allowed in to work in warehouses for 9.80 an hour. End result- less rental pressure and employers can no longer take the piss with rates offered.

- pull out of any EU refugee relocation scheme that involves us providing housing out of our own taxes. A country that has people on social housing lists for 12 years that suddenly realises it can find Syrians a permanent home within 3 months of arrival is a sick society.

- audit the welfare and social housing rolls for current residents from abroad, to weed out those who haven't put a shift in. If a previous government's incompetence resulted in you being allowed to stay, and an audit shows you've spent most of that time on welfare, home you go.


What is so radical and unspeakable about these ideas? Why won't any mainstream political party of TD address the issue? To my knowledge a handful of SF, Labour and FG local councillors who dared raise the issue were either censured or outright kicked out of their respective parties.

I mean, look at this. Just look (registration required)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/human-rights-challenge-issued-to-social-housing-policy-for-non-irish-f6vhfnr20?t=ie

A gypsy family arrive in the country, work for all of 3 months, spent two years in a homeless hub at god knows how much cost to the state while fighting legal aid cases to be entitled to dole (successfully) and entitled to subsidised housing (pending)

Or where were the pricks from Raise the Roof and Home Sweet Home when Kilkenny council was buying properties, knowing tenants would be evicted, because it decided some folks from abroad were a better class of people?

http://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/ferrybank-housing-reshuffle/

What kind of a parallel ****ing universe am I living in where all this is acceptable conduct? Where politicians are so afraid of being labelled as racist that they will stand by and have people kicked out of their homes to make way for new arrivals?

Nowhere in that article it's saying they are gypsies.
By calling Romanians gipsies it's like saying all Irish are travellers. How would that make you feel?

You're actually insulting gypsies as well btw, they don't consider themselves Romanians as they don't belong to Romania.

Why do I even bother ..

Cordell

You are right, not everyone from Romania is gypsy (like if that even needs to be said), but these ones are. But what they are does not matter, they should not be provided by the state with anything but a plane ticket back to Romania.

rosmoke

I'm Romanian and believe me, we don't want them there either IF they are gypsy.
Should we say instead let's send them to India? Cause that's where they're from btw if they're gypsy.

I honestly understand the point of this post but I don't think this is a solution.

rosmoke

rosmoke wrote: »

I'm Romanian and believe me, we don't want them there either IF they are gypsy.
Should we say instead let's send them to India? Cause that's where they're from btw if they're gypsy.

I honestly understand the point of this post but I don't think this is a solution.

The point is, though, that certain groups, who shall remain nameless, arrive here, and demand housing, welfare, and everything else they can get, whereas the Irish get to wait in line for services that they may, or may not, receive.

The perception by some people in the UK that it was happening in Britain caused some people to vote for Brexit - so, do we risk that here, or do we have an honest discussion about what is happening?

Graham

So you're saying it's an issue of perception rather than reality?

I think you're probably right.

Cordell

There may be, and it's very likely there are, some Irish people that will wait in line because some immigrants were in front of them - this can happen for welfare, housing, doctor visits, schools, and so on. How serious it it we don't know as no one seems willing to openly discuss it. Is the immigration straining the healthcare? We don't know. Is it straining the education system? We don't know.
When we get to a full waiting room and half of it don't speak English then we may give out (inside of course) about the fking foreigners. But maybe that room was full Irish yesterday, but we don't know because we don't openly discuss this.
That's the problem.

rosmoke

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

Boxing.Fan

Cordell wrote: »

You are right, not everyone from Romania is gypsy (like if that even needs to be said), but these ones are. But what they are does not matter, they should not be provided by the state with anything but a plane ticket back to Romania.

I work in Dublin Airport and there is an endless flow of gypsys coming back and forward from Bulgaria. Same faces every couple of weeks. How that can be allowed I do not now. Coming here to beg and commit crime nothing more.

rosmoke

My solution for housing is to stimulate the growth of rental properties, at the moment landlords are discouraged from renting their place as it is very difficult to kick out troublesome tenants or recover months of unpaid rent.
It's a service landlords provide, tenants either pay or not and get out, should be really easy.
I'm a tenant and I want better laws for landlords, the irony ...

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

Yes it is, 100%.

That this concept has gained the traction it has...just bonkers. The power of propaganda in full effect.

Imagine someone managing to convince you that anyone can come and live in your house. That everyone has a right to live in your house. Imagine falling for that lunacy.

If anyone can come and live in your home, then you don't actually have a home. If anyone can come and live in your country, then you don't have a country.

The majority of major issues in the world can be solved with a healthy dose of reality. The internet has allowed and encouraged a fictional make-believe world, and it needs to be stopped immediately, and then reversed asap.

rosmoke

That's not the same thing in my opinion.
Ireland it's not yours, it's just a location where you happened to be born or stayed 5+ years as EU national.
You pay for your house, it's yours .. you own it. You don't own the island even if you pay taxes, what you have is the democratic right to vote.
It's the same in other countries as well.

Cordell

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

beejee

rosmoke wrote: »

That's not the same thing in my opinion.
Ireland it's not yours, it's just a location where you happened to be born or stayed 5+ years as EU national.
You pay for your house, it's yours .. you own it. You don't own the island even if you pay taxes.

Yeah, sure thing.

My country is not my country. Okay. Its all just a free-for-all grab for whoever can get in the door and take it.

You must realise that you've lost your mind, because im telling you now, if that's your mindset on the most basic of fundamentals, you'll be ridden to hell and back.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cordell wrote: »

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

Does that include foreigners who now hold Irish citizenship?

rosmoke

Cordell

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Does that include foreigners who now hold Irish citizenship?

Yes. Their citizenship was given to them by the representatives of the Irish citizens, mandated by them and acting in their best interests, or so the story goes

vriesmays

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Poles are as tight as tuppence

Who can anytime return to their own country which is over 95% native unlike progressive Ireland.

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

Let me give a few examples.
When you go to McDonald's what do you think is the ratio of non nationals there?
Or in Musgrave's warehouse down in Kilcock, youse have any idea how many are foreigners? I think over 85% and it's a big warehouse, quite a few people working there.
So why aren't Irish taking those low paid jobs? I suspect it's because they are better off on social and I can't blame them, it's unfair that someone on housing list gets a brand new 300k house and others on middle wage can't even dream of it.

I've also been working for a smallish 180 employees Irish tech company where ~40% were foreigners, same with another Fintech I've had the pleasure to work with.
Foreigners pay taxes and contribute to the economy.
I suspect there is only a small proportion of immigrants that are abusing the system and does it really matter their race, nationality, religion?
Is it fair to discriminate people based on their place of birth (nationality)?
This is a bigger problem and borders or bridges are not a solution on the long term.

A typical employer will hire a eastern european/non irish on 11 euro an hour or whatever the minimum wage is rather than an Irish person as the eastern european/non Irish is much more likely to except the crap terms and conditions and wages than an Irish person.

As an example a logistics company which will go unnamed i know of years back decided to stop hiring Irish people because they are more likely to demand sick pay or being paid overtime. They have hired only Romanians for the last years and treat them like absolute s h it.

It's a race to the bottom and it will eventually lead to a Trump type politician being elected here or a Brexit style scenario. This im as sure of as night follows day.

Also a big problem now for employers and IBEC is Eastern Europeans are wising up to being treated like this and organizing so they are looking to the open borders BS to get cheap labour in from Africa or the Middle East

Boxing.Fan

Cordell wrote: »

Yes. Their citizenship was given to them by the representatives of the Irish citizens, mandated by them and acting in their best interests, or so the story goes

That's not the answer he was looking for.

rosmoke

beejee wrote: »

Yeah, sure thing.

My country is not my country. Okay. Its all just a free-for-all grab for whoever can get in the door and take it.

You must realise that you've lost your mind, because im telling you now, if that's your mindset on the most basic of fundamentals, you'll be ridden to hell and back.

No beejee, it's not a matter of anyone can take it.
It's a bit unfair to complain of others that come and 'take over this country' when Spain, Canada, US are full of Irish immigrants.
This goes both ways you know? Haven't we learned anything from history?

Let's make a better place for all of us, not f**k the rest and imagine we're gonna be sitting on gold.

This is actually something I appreciate Irish people for, their mindset, how they are open to multiculturalism.

beejee

Cordell wrote: »

The Irish citizens collectively own Ireland.

Where do you draw a line on "citizen"? A very difficult question.

If you start at the extreme end of things, does a German who got handed a piece of paper today suddenly have some rightful claim to the country? Is it instantaneous?

Theres some barking mad notions running wild at the moment, but it basically comes down to this; "I want you to share what you own because its valuable, give it to me or youre a bad person" versus "I want to keep what I own because I realise its value, hands off."

That this kind of conversation is only happening in countries of intrinsic value that have significant jumps in immigration is no mere coincidence. They want their friends along for a piece of the action too. More gives rise to more gives rise to more demands.

Its not complicated, and its impact on housing in this particular instance is like predicting it might rain sometime in Ireland this year.

InTheShadows

rosmoke wrote: »

Far out dude.

Boxing.Fan

InTheShadows wrote: »

Far out dude.

Pass the joint, man.

rosmoke

sharing is caring

Hector Savage

rosmoke wrote: »

Such utter and absolute crap, in an ideal Gene Roddenberry-esque Star Trek universe it's a beautiful idea, but the reality is very very different.

It's like that Irish/Mexican American lad that is running for president, he actually wants to demolish the border wall in El Paso.

El Paso borders Juarez, one of Mexicos most dangerous cities, does he have any f*cking idea what would happen if that border wall was taken down ?