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Star Wars, should the prequels be remade.

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    #32
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    There's an element of truth in that.

    The current trilogy borrowed so much from the OT already for the next generation. This could be the reboot.


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    #33
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,309 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    Jar Jar Binks origin story, leading up to the moment he ran into a pair of Jedi on Naboo.
    We need to see what jolly close scrapes he and his chums got into to put him in such low regard.
    Make it a musical comedy, with maybe cameos by Lady Gaga and the force ghost of Johnny Cash.

    I know your joking but you need to be careful Disney are spying on us and they don’t understand humor. We could end up with your musical comedy.


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    #34
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    7 and 8 are not in anyway remakes of the OT. By that definition nearly all sequels could be considered remakes. This is like calling Star Trek into Darkness a remake of Wraith of Khan, a film with a very different plot and story, all because of a few scenes that riff on or subvert it. I can't think of many sequels that don't rehash many scenarios from previous films. Even the most acclaimed sequel ever made The Godfather Part II, which claims to be the second part of the story but was actually made up by Coppola and Puzo because they needed the money, does it.

    Given how heavily influenced Lucas was by serials, which endlessly rehashed themselves, it at least makes sense to have a lot of repeated motifs and plot points in SW. The multiple Death Stars are too much mind you, mainly because of the laziness of their execution, but most of the other instances of similar plot points or scenarios in SW are often quite satisfying to watch play out again but differently. Like the throne room scene in TLJ. TFA's total lack of imagination with the design and politics of the galaxy is a different matter. I think if JJ had been a bit bolder in this regard it would have mitigated most of the complaints about the films being remakes.


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    #35
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    SP, with that postI can't help but think you don't know what side of the fence you're on!

    Maybe there needs to be a new term for a movie between a sequel and remake/reboot. TFA was a bit of both. They even referenced it in the movie...

    "It's another Death Star!"

    That line had to be a nod to the OT generation. A way of acknowledging they were raiding the cookie jar. I've come to terms with that. For a successful movie to survive 30 years without getting rebooted is unusual.


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    #36
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I just think all sequels/prequels rehash plot points and scenarios from previous films, so the definition of a "remake" can't be so broad. A sequel as far as I'm concerned literally means "more of the same". A reboot is quite distinct from a remake as it implies a different approach. I wouldn't consider the sequel trilogy to be either. They seem like pretty straight forward sequels from a story, character and plot standpoint albeit very unimaginative design-wise compared to the prequels as I said.


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    #37
    TheIrishGrover
    Registered Users Posts: 6,009 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    The problem with the Internet is that everyone has a voice but it seems that the moaners voice their opinions loudest. Then they go online, start a petition saying "Remake this", get a few signatures and state that the world wants these to be remade (And yes, I do consider a couple of million signatures as a "few" signatures given how many people could have signed this).

    People b!tched about the darker tones of Empire when it came out: Complained that Luke was whiny (He was), the it ended in a cliffhanger when we would have to wait years for the next film (Not about 18 months). Of course now the general opinion is that Empire is the best of the series.

    People still b!tch about Jedi: The Ewoks were simply there to sell toys (They were). The overall tone was too light and family friendly (Ironic given the flack Empire got initially) etc.

    Personally I'm not a fan of the prequels. The dialog it trite, the style and effects have aged terribly (As we knew they would at the time). There were gems of course (Darth Maul fight. The Light Sabre fights in general). Some of this can be put down to the fact that I'm not 8-14 watching the movies and some can be put down to the fact that Lucas is a terrible dialogue writer.

    But here's the thing. Movies cannot be made based on the general consensus of fanboys overly-active on the Internet.

    Episode 7 came out. Was initially received favourably and then they started saying it was basically A New Hope (There is some justification to that). "Oh why didn't they do something different? It's basically A New Hope!!!! Ahhhh"
    Episode 8 came out and all of a sudden they are complaining about it being too[/] different: Oh, that's not how Luke would be. He's so angry. How DARE they bring in ANOTHER strong female character???!!! Why isn't Rei a Skywalker????!!!!! Oh, kill that Asian chick. I hate her!!!!

    Fantasy/Sci-Fi fanboys are very precious about what they consider "Theirs". The problem is that now their restrictive and often times, quite poisonous possessiveness can so easily be spread so far and wide on The Internet.


    So, tldr:

    No, they shouldn't. Don't like them (I don't)? Deal with it. Plenty of people do like them but don't feel the need to open/add to a petition to keep them as is.


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    #38
    Wedwood
    Registered Users Posts: 626 ✭✭✭Wedwood


    On a lighter note, most movie remakes (with a few notable exceptions) turn out to be inferior to their predecessors. So it's far from a given that remaking these (or Last Jedi for that matter) would improve things.

    That said, JJ Abrams 'course correction' for Episode 9, along with the rumoured Prequel cameos, is probably the closest thing you'll get to a remake of Last Jedi, with some sort of tacit recognition for the Prequels. It's probably how they got Lucas back as a consultant on the first place.


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    #39
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Did the prequels suck... Yes.

    Did they have some great ideas? Absolutely.

    Should they be remade. Nah. Move on. Do bigger and better things with the legacy.


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    #40
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Wedwood wrote: »
    On a lighter note, most movie remakes (with a few notable exceptions) turn out to be inferior to their predecessors. So it's far from a given that remaking these (or Last Jedi for that matter) would improve things.

    That said, JJ Abrams 'course correction' for Episode 9, along with the rumoured Prequel cameos, is probably the closest thing you'll get to a remake of Last Jedi, with some sort of tacit recognition for the Prequels. It's probably how they got Lucas back as a consultant on the first place.


    To be clear ‘Course correction’ Was a term used in a click bait article. Nobody involved ever said that term or was it mentioned anywhere. abrams Kennedy etc especially

    He did say this last one is ‘renegade’ and possibly addressing? that his other Star Wars film was too similar to previous said ‘fvck being beholden to the past. I’m going to film it as I like and write what feels right’.

    Also wouldn’t be sure Lucas is back consulting on this or anything. Again, that was clickbait. Abrams met with him once. Other outlets say he never did. Palpatine was always coming back in this trilogy according to Kennedy and early force awakens concepts. Abrahams reportedly asked Lucas is it was ok and that’s all. Does any body really want Lucas back involved though. Safe, hard no.



    Edit-correction. Bob Iger reportedly said course correction about the release schedules for new films of Star Wars being adjusted after the Solo one .
    He was not referencing the episode 9 film or production however.


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    #41
    Inviere
    Registered Users Posts: 7,538 ✭✭✭Inviere


    TerrorFirmer wrote: »
    Did the prequels suck... Yes.

    Did they have some great ideas? Absolutely.

    Should they be remade. Nah. Move on. Do bigger and better things with the legacy.

    /thread :)

    Retro Computers/Consoles Repair/Restoration List



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    #42
    CinemaGuy45
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    No because I don't think Anakin's story needed to be told in the first place, so nothing would be gained in remaking them. As I've said before, Rogue One is what episode 3 should have been. A whole trilogy like that about the early days of the Rebellion with no Jedi or Skywalkers would have been great.

    I hate the Disney Star Wars films with the exception of Rogue One as for the Prequels Revenge of the Sith was a good film.


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    #43
    Hangdogroad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    fryup wrote: »
    no, they should be forgotten about

    The prequels should be blasted off into space and vapourised.


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    #44
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    Double post


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    #45
    d8491prj5boyvg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 508 ✭✭✭d8491prj5boyvg


    I think it would be too confusing with an expanding saga. Either end the saga and start from scratch again or keep on expanding. It would be a shame to do the former with all the fertile ground.


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    #46
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    We have 3 Star Wars tv series on the way. Mandalorian Cassian Andor and an unnamed one-rumoured to be announced at D23 the Disney conference this month. So they’re exploring an era post prequels in Cassian, post originals in Mandalorian and who knows what period in the third series.
    With that in mind it’s likely tv is the focus for the next few years until the Benioff and Weiss trilogy and Johnson trilogy form up.
    Personally don’t believe the rumour about the knights of the old republic trilogy/series whatever it is.
    But it might be that is what is being announced at D23.

    So remakes aren’t on the cards. Maybe when we’re all very very old.


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    #47
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    I don't think they should be remade but I wouldn't mind an official novelisation that fixes a lot of what's wrong with them. Have Anakin a teen/young adult like Luke and skip all that guff about the chosen one etc. Just have him be a normal dude who falls to the dark side through greed or lust for power or something. Have him succumb where Luke succeeded. I'd also think it would be cool if Owen Lars and Beru had some part in the Clone Wars too and they had agreed to look after Luke because they were agents or something. Like, Owen, Beru, Anakin, Padme and Obi-wan were all friends or comrades.


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    #48
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Conall Cernach wrote: »
    I don't think they should be remade but I wouldn't mind an official novelisation that fixes a lot of what's wrong with them. Have Anakin a teen/young adult like Luke and skip all that guff about the chosen one etc. Just have him be a normal dude who falls to the dark side through greed or lust for power or something. Have him succumb where Luke succeeded. I'd also think it would be cool if Owen Lars and Beru had some part in the Clone Wars too and they had agreed to look after Luke because they were agents or something. Like, Owen, Beru, Anakin, Padme and Obi-wan were all friends or comrades.

    Funny you’ve mention that. The novelisations of the films are far more descriptive and elaborate on the events in the films. The revenge of the sith novel particularly. It is packed with what you are looking for.
    Then You get to clone wars and it explanis the machinations of Palpatine and the politics. It is all out there and really special extra input. I hated the prequels until I saw Clone Wars. It was made and paid for by Lucas and it elevates the prequels so very much.


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    #49
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    No because I don't think Anakin's story needed to be told in the first place

    But Star Wars is the story, rise and fall, of Anakin Skywalker


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    #50
    jpm4
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭jpm4


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    But Star Wars is the story, rise and fall, of Anakin Skywalker

    Not every story needs to be told.....I was pretty content not knowing the origins of say Hannibal Lector or the xenomorph from Alien.


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    #51
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    jpm4 wrote: »
    Not every story needs to be told.....I was pretty content not knowing the origins of say Hannibal Lector or the xenomorph from Alien.

    100% right.

    Then look over the game of thrones threads and see people complaining cos every single thing wasn’t spoonfed and explained in detail and you realise there is no pleasing people. True of the last jedi also and anything these days.
    The perpetually outraged always demand to be heard regardless of the topic.
    They don’t even bother to research or even think in a lot of cases.


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    #52
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    jpm4 wrote: »
    Not every story needs to be told.....I was pretty content not knowing the origins of say Hannibal Lector or the xenomorph from Alien.

    But it's one envisioned story. What you're asking for is only half a story.


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    #53
    jpm4
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭jpm4


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    But it's one envisioned story. What you're asking for is only half a story.

    ?? Am not asking for anything. The original trilogy worked perfectly fine as a self contained story for me, I never felt it needed anything else.


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    #54
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,138 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    jpm4 wrote: »
    ?? Am not asking for anything. The original trilogy worked perfectly fine as a self contained story for me, I never felt it needed anything else.

    It may be fine as a self-contained story for yourself, but it's simply not the whole story. Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker, from start to finish, and to a lesser extent, the story of the Skywalker's in general. If the story isn't about, or relates to, Anakin, it isn't Star Wars, because Star Wars is his story.

    Well, I say that, but Disney have moved those goalposts. But the above still stands, in the context of the intent behind the prequels and when they were made


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    #55
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,209 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Star Wars is the story of Anakin Skywalker

    Nah, I'd completely disagree with this. George Lucas may have convinced himself that was the case after the fact, but watch A New Hope and Darth Vader / Anakin is barely a character in it. He's just a bad guy - his story doesn't even properly kick in until the sequel. It's very much not his story.

    To me, the Star Wars prequels are close to utterly redundant. This is a broader complaint than just Star Wars, but (most) prequels more generally - Episode 1-3 are simply the perfect case in point. Everything you need to understand the original films is in the original films. I'd go so far as to say the prequels do more damage to our understanding of the first trilogy - like making C3PO a bizarre Forest Gump like character, or reducing the story of the Skywalker twins' conception to an insipid, eyerolling romance. And not to mention Lucas going back to tweak details of the originals to 'retcon' them.

    Granted, I'm someone largely opposed to 'lore' - I don't think every detail of a story needs to be explained explicitly, or that we need to see how a character came to be the person we first meet. But even without that personal bias I feel there's something tragically unnecessary about the prequels. If Lucas had had least made competent, confident films rather than the awkward, clunky ones we got... then maybe that would have been fine. Instead, we have badly made films telling a story that IMO never needed to be told in the first place. And it proves that sometimes fleeting references to the past are infinitely more impactful - as said, the references we get to what came before in the OT tell us everything we need to know, and in a way that trusts the viewer to fill in the blanks. That to me is more stirring and intriguing storytelling than the answers we got.


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    #56
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I don't think anyone would complain about the making of Eps 1-3 if they had been made better. If you're going to go back to well, then the birth of the Skywalkers and fall of the Jedi was the best story to tell.

    Simply put Lucas wasn't the best person to helm that trilogy. The awful dialogue, turgid politics, and over-reliance on CGI were the problems - not the origin story they were trying to tell.

    In essence, blame the execution.


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    #57
    Cryptopagan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Cryptopagan


    I don’t know why people always say the prequels were a bad idea in principle. I think the idea of doing a space opera version of Throne of Blood following Anakin’s descent from great Jedi to power hungry military leader is a very solid premise. There are lots of undeveloped aspects to his relationship with the Empire from the OT that could have been fleshed out in interesting ways: his isolation from the officer class, the contempt his “old religion” is held in, his desire to oust the Emperor and rule in his place. There was more potential in a prequel trilogy than in the sequels, which have had to resurrect the Empire in the unlikely form of the First Order to find a suitable villain.

    Also, the whole concept of Palpatine exploiting a crisis to cement his rule being told in the era of 9/11 and its aftermath could really have resonated with the times, if only Lucas’s political imagination had rivaled his capacity for making up silly names.


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    #58
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Wedwood wrote: »
    George Lucas stated this week that his Star Wars movies (both original and prequel trilogies) were made for 12 year olds,

    Yeh, but he didn't say that in 1977.

    There's been an awful lot of Lucas revisionism going on regarding Star Wars.


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    #59
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,041 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    Nah, I'd completely disagree with this. George Lucas may have convinced himself that was the case after the fact, but watch A New Hope and Darth Vader / Anakin is barely a character in it. He's just a bad guy - his story doesn't even properly kick in until the sequel. It's very much not his story.

    Absolutely.

    And this is an indication of more of Lucas' goalpost shifting.

    The original Star Wars story had bugger all to do with Darth Vader. He was just a weird henchman. An hard man bad guy.

    It's only with later additions to the story that Lucas claimed that it was all about Vader in the first place.

    But, then Lucas has drawn so many lines in the sand at this stage that they're all trenches now.
    johnny_ultimate wrote: »
    To me, the Star Wars prequels are close to utterly redundant.

    Not only that, but they are quite damaging to the story as presented in the original movies because of the, frankly, stupid additions Lucas lumbered the prequels with.


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    #60
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Moving goalposts isn’t a fair or accurate criticism. He wrote a 300 page story about Luke starkiller as taken from the journals of the whills. Everything we saw in the prequels and originals was in there and a lot more. It was pared down and only one or two elements shown in the originals. Which is why he was never Happy with the first one.
    It’s definitely Anakin / Vader’s story as much as Luke’s. Return of the Jedi specifically refers to Anakin and his redemption to save his son. If we are wrongly blaming him on shifting goal posts then he should have never made Vader Luke’s father? and we wouldn’t have one of the best films ever made in empire strikes back? We’d all be the worse off for not having that.


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    #61
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Moving goalposts isn’t a fair or accurate criticism. He wrote a 300 page story about Luke starkiller as taken from the journals of the whills. Everything we saw in the prequels and originals was in there and a lot more. It was pared down and only one or two elements shown in the originals. Which is why he was never Happy with the first one.
    It’s definitely Anakin / Vader’s story as much as Luke’s. Return of the Jedi specifically refers to Anakin and his redemption to save his son. If we are wrongly blaming him on shifting goal posts then he should have never made Vader Luke’s father? and we wouldn’t have one of the best films ever made in empire strikes back? We’d all be the worse off for not having that.
    J.R.R. Tolkien did the same type of revisioning to make the Ring from The Hobbit something it was never intended to be. And from that spawned LOTR.

    Stories evolve, sometimes for the better.


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