Star Wars, should the prequels be remade.

Tony EH

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Moving goalposts isn’t a fair or accurate criticism. He wrote a 300 page story about Luke starkiller as taken from the journals of the whills. Everything we saw in the prequels and originals was in there and a lot more. It was pared down and only one or two elements shown in the originals. Which is why he was never Happy with the first one.
It’s definitely Anakin / Vader’s story as much as Luke’s. Return of the Jedi specifically refers to Anakin and his redemption to save his son. If we are wrongly blaming him on shifting goal posts then he should have never made Vader Luke’s father? and we wouldn’t have one of the best films ever made in empire strikes back? We’d all be the worse off for not having that.

That's not the point.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't shift any goalposts.

I'm just saying that he did and Lucas' words on Star Wars cannot be trusted as he's essentially an unreliable source of information.

However, that doesn't mean that his constant reconning of Star Wars has been all bad. Certainly his decision to switch Darth Vader from some guy to the father of the hero did wonders for the original films and they wouldn't be as well remembered today if he hadn't done so.

But the fact of the matter is that Star Wars wasn't "the story of Darth Vader" until Lucas decided to start writing the prequels in the 90's.

Sleepy

I'd be happy with a release of the Topher Grace re-edit.

Stop moaning ffs

His big mistake with the prequels was not getting other people to direct 2&3.
Ron Howard was asked I believe but couldn’t commit.
Plus a lot of his attention was devoted to pushing the technology both to make the film and a huge amount of time making Fox force cinemas to upgrade to the latest sound systems and projectors (a certain Make/type) or they wouldn’t be given the film to show. Wanting people to see the film exactly how it should be. But not paying equal time to the very source of it(and the problems as it emerged). The script.
This happened on the originals too with the projectors/sound systems but even more so with the prequels.

He was so open to advice from his friends and peers in the writing of the first films, it’s very strange he didn’t ask any of them to give the prequels scripts a once over. Carrie Fisher did actually work as a script doctor on the prequels. And is uncredited as far as I know.
Most of the snappy dialogue from Han in the first films were written by a couple who were script doctors too. Cannot remember their names.

Slightly off topic but a fascinating short read. An insight into his method and how it came forward

‘The First Lesson and Luke’s Return: The Original Trilogy’s Drafts and the Sequel Trilogy’


The Original Trilogy’s draft scripts are a fascinating look at what could have been. A New Hope alone had four very different draft versions before the one we’re familiar with. Yet for all the differences, the earlier scripts have ideas that come to fruition decades later. The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi first drafts contain several lines that are of particular interest as we look forward to the final film of the Saga.

Continues here
https://swshadowcouncil.com/2019/06/10/the-first-lesson-and-lukes-return-the-original-trilogys-drafts-and-the-sequel-trilogy/

Cryptopagan

Tony EH wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is that Star Wars wasn't "the story of Darth Vader" until Lucas decided to start writing the prequels in the 90's.

He was planning prequels that filled in Anakin’s story from at least TESB, hence the Episode V title.

Stop moaning ffs

Cryptopagan wrote: »

He was planning prequels that filled in Anakin’s story from at least TESB, hence the Episode V title.

It was planned long before that but was only a thread pulled and brought on when the sequel to Star Wars was greenlit owing to its success. He was and Fox was completely blindsided by the success of the original

Tony EH

Cryptopagan wrote: »

He was planning prequels that filled in Anakin’s story from at least TESB, hence the Episode V title.

Sure. Somewhere between 'Star Wars' and 'The Empire Strikes Back' there were vague plans for 9 films. But nothing was written in stone and it was still wasn't "the story of Darth Vader" as Lucas tried to sell it in the 90's.

Then later there was to be just 6 films, when Lucas said there would be no VII.

He was all over the place with this stuff, which is why you have to be very careful about any info he's imparted over the years. He's contradicted himself more times.

Stop moaning ffs

There always was a plan though. This is Mark Hamill in 1982(?) talking about George asking him to come back to play an old Obi wan mentor figure.
Ok plan is overstating it but he intended to
(Don’t know how to embed sorry. State of hamills jumper though)

https://youtu.be/4UGV7WVB-bA

Dades

Tony EH wrote: »

Sure. Somewhere between 'Star Wars' and 'The Empire Strikes Back' there were vague plans for 9 films. But nothing was written in stone and it was still wasn't "the story of Darth Vader" as Lucas tried to sell it in the 90's.

Then later there was to be just 6 films, when Lucas said there would be no VII.

He was all over the place with this stuff, which is why you have to be very careful about any info he's imparted over the years. He's contradicted himself more times.

I have to ask, so what if the plan evolved and changed direction over time? It's Lucas' baby to play with.

That's not the reason the prequels were sub-standard.

Tony EH

Dades wrote: »

I have to ask, so what if the plan evolved and changed direction over time? It's Lucas' baby to play with.

That's not the reason the prequels were sub-standard.

Again, that's not the point.

Stop moaning ffs

What’s the point?

pixelburp

Feels like this thread has run its course a little, milling around hypotheticals, sourced from an even greater hypothetical of an original post. A post from a user who hasn't even contributed to his own thread!

Stop moaning ffs

Safe to say we all have a sense of ownership, for lack of a better word, of Star Wars. That’s ok. Pointless to point fingers at Lucas or his decisions, be they good or bad. Utterly subjective.
The generation just below us, the prequels are their Star Wars. It’s 20th anniversary celebration (at Celebration particularly) was massive among that (sizeable) community.
They’re there. There is no going back and remaking them. Take as much good out of them as you find and that’s all you can do.
If you’re not a fan give the Clone Wars series a watch. It will elevate the prequels for you I promise.

Palpatines machinations and scheming are fully developed and the Jedi trying to fight a war spread thin across the galaxy and blind to the enemy right on their doorstep.
But it truly fills out all of what Lucas was doing and it’s succeeds wonderfully.
It’s dark AF mystical political adventurous and funny. The last two especially, Obi Wan and Anakin are your Center point and (kind of) mainly focuses on them and their endeavours.

And it’s 6 seasons. With the final season coming this autumn on the Disney streaming service. (Which still has no launch date here )

Tony EH

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

What’s the point?

How many times do I have to say it?

George Lucas' words on Star Wars can't trusted because he's changed his mind so much and so many of his statements can be contradicted by other statements.

This isn't hard to understand.

Stop moaning ffs

Tony EH wrote: »

How many times do I have to say it?

George Lucas' words on Star Wars can't trusted because he's changed his mind so much and so many of his statements can be contradicted by other statements.

This isn't hard to understand.

Art isn’t maths. It’s not static. These films means as many different things and have different interpretations as there are people that have seen them.
Regardless how we Much value we place in it, or not, it is not static and we do bother final say.
It can always be open to interpretation.
Return of the Jedi literally references the return and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. That’s fact. Millions of Star Wars fans argue about it all the time. Endlessly.

I credit Lucas with not being so one dimensional that he remains stuck in one meaning. One interpretation. One outlook. Which you seem to insist he should.

He’s human after all. Who knew?
And it’s his creation. He can do whatever he likes with it, and change his mind still. Then and now.

jpm4

Am just going to throw this in here for no obvious reason...someone please make a version of Timothy Zahns Heir to the Emperor book series.

That's all I need, then you can f**k all that other star wars crap in the bin, because I just want Thrawn on the big screen.

Tony EH

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Art isn’t maths. It’s not static. These films means as many different things and have different interpretations as there are people that have seen them.
Regardless how we Much value we place in it, or not, it is not static and we do bother final say.
It can always be open to interpretation.
Return of the Jedi literally references the return and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. That’s fact. Millions of Star Wars fans argue about it all the time. Endlessly.

I credit Lucas with not being so one dimensional that he remains stuck in one meaning. One interpretation. One outlook. Which you seem to insist he should.

He’s human after all. Who knew?
And it’s his creation. He can do whatever he likes with it, and change his mind still. Then and now.

Still not the point.

Stop moaning ffs

jpm4 wrote: »

Am just going to throw this in here for no obvious reason...someone please make a version of Timothy Zahns Heir to the Emperor book series.

That's all I need, then you can f**k all that other star wars crap in the bin, because I just want Thrawn on the big screen.

He’s in Rebels. The animated series.
Also has two books in the new canon. Thrawn alliances (written by Zahn) is particularly weird. He’s dealing with Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight, and intercuts to much later him working with Darth Vader. And he knows it’s him/Anakin.
You could cut the tension with a knife. -*theyre both vying for the emperors favour and trying to outdo each other and Palpatine plays them off each other with ease.
Well worth reading. Final book of the trilogy out this year I think?

Stop moaning ffs

Tony EH wrote: »

Still not the point.

What point? Your opinion you mean? Have at it.
It’s yours. As it applies to the subject, it’s of no relevance or importance to anyone but you. *as is mine.
It’s also not that interesting. ‘The point’. Or not.
Can’t remember what it was. But I do rememeber you said ‘the point’ a fair bit.

jpm4

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

He’s in Rebels. The animated series.
Also has two books in the new canon. Thrawn alliances (written by Zahn) is particularly weird. He’s dealing with Anakin Skywalker, Jedi Knight, and intercuts to much later him working with Darth Vader. And he knows it’s him/Anakin.
You could cut the tension with a knife. -*theyre both vying for the emperors favour and trying to outdo each other and Palpatine plays them off each other with ease.
Well worth reading. Final book of the trilogy out this year I think?

Thanks for that, to be honest though I never really got into the books outside the first Zahn series. He did some follow up books ( Spectre of the Past?) that I thought were dreadful. Never read beyond those.

Stop moaning ffs

jpm4 wrote: »

Thanks for that, to be honest though I never really got into the books outside the first Zahn series. He did some follow up books ( Spectre of the Past?) that I thought were dreadful. Never read beyond those.

I struggled with the first/famous Thrawn book. He’s clearly a brilliant writer.

And Luuuuuke was all he come up with for the clone?

It just was embarrassing but he can write so well it’s bizarre some of the choices as above he made.

Have a go of the episodes of rebels or those two books though. It’s thrawn.

jpm4

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I struggled with the first/famous Thrawn book. He’s clearly a brilliant writer.

And Luuuuuke was all he come up with for the clone?

It just was embarrassing but he can write so well it’s bizarre some of the choices as above he made.

Have a go of the episodes of rebels or those two books though. It’s thrawn.

Yeah the Luuke thing was strange, also Joruus C'Baoth I think was the clone of Jorus C'Baoth? What do clones call themselves when they don't have a 'U' in their name?

Stop moaning ffs

jpm4 wrote: »

Yeah the Luuke thing was strange, also Joruus C'Baoth I think was the clone of Jorus C'Baoth? What do clones call themselves when they don't have a 'U' in their name?

Forgot that. Christ.
How can somebody so talented make such mad decisions?

*ahem*

They’re still the most beloved Star Wars books of all time. Not even an argument.

Hector Savage

I would say a definite no, but since Disney are doing their best to discredit the prequels at every oppurtunity - it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
Anyway, Ep IX will be the last good Star Wars film - at least its the only one left that can possibly be good.

Stop moaning ffs

Hector Savage wrote: »

I would say a definite no, but since Disney are doing their best to discredit the prequels at every oppurtunity - it wouldn't surprise me if they did.
Anyway, Ep IX will be the last good Star Wars film - at least its the only one left that can possibly be good.

They’re disrespecting the prequels? Where? Or how?

buser2x

never mess with the original

Agent Coulson

buser2x wrote: »

never mess with the original

Un-mess the originals.

TheIrishGrover

Tony EH wrote: »

But the fact of the matter is that Star Wars wasn't "the story of Darth Vader" until Lucas decided to start writing the prequels in the 90's.

I'm old enough to remember the originals when they came out (Well, ANH was re-released as a double-bill when empire came out).

And I always remember how everyone expected 1-3 to come out next and they would be about Vader. Back in 80's/late 70's we knew that Obi-wan fought Darth Vader at the edge of a volcano and that Vader fell in. That Vader was married to a princess who died and that Luke and Leia were separated because The Emperor wanted to use them. We knew that Vader killed all the other Jedi. I believe we even knew he started out as a slave.

Obviously some of this was tweaked over the years but even then we knew that Star Wars was more about Vader than Luke.

We knew the original plan was for 9 but I can't remember what we thought 7-9 was going to be about. I believe we thought they were just gonna be sort of "The Continuing Adventures of Han and Chewie." Certainly we believed they would be about 10 years after Jedi and not, basically, the next generation. I believe we kind of assumed that the Skywalker story was done and then they would move onto Han Solo's story (since he was everyone's favourite )

Tony EH

Nobody "knew" anything really. Not even Lucas. Star Wars was effectively dead as a movie event for about 15 years. Official Star Wars was silent. All there was were the comics and the EU books. None of which were about "the story of Darth Vader" either and who's content could be discarded in an instant.

Even so, by far, they mostly dealt with what happened after the original films and followed Luke's story. They were the "Adventures of Luke Skywalker".

So, even in the 20+ years leading up to 'The Phantom Menace', Star Wars still wasn't "the story of Darth Vader", as Lucas tried to sell it in the 90's.

d8491prj5boyvg

Apparently Lucas sold his ideas for episodes VII-IX to Disney and they were binned. I wonder have they been leaked online. They would probably have made rubbish movies (although they would likely have been more original than what Disney did) but it would be nice to read the story arc.

Relikk

Alexis Elegant Painter wrote: »

Apparently Lucas sold his ideas for episodes VII-IX to Disney and they were binned. I wonder have they been leaked online. They would probably have made rubbish movies (although they would likely have been more original than what Disney did) but it would be nice to read the story arc.

I think I read something a while ago saying that his ideas focused on the Whills. Where the midichlorians are one sub layer of the force, the Whills are above them, like the gods of the force, for the want of a better term. I... don't want to know about that. So, thanks Disney! :pac: