Denis Villeneuve’s Dune

In my experience "true to the spirit" is meaningless.

pixelburp wrote: »

The first cracks appear? Apparently Villeneuve will direct the pilot of a spin off show already pencilled in, "Dune: The Sisterhood", which will follow the Bene Gesserit in the same universe. Supposedly there are also plans for video game adaptations too; suddenly I'm worried Warners are following the still foolish, modern trend of frontloading a shared universe before the first film has even finished filming. If this is looking for Endgame money it'll be sorely disappointed.

I have to say, I'm sick of this fucking shit myself. It's so, so, tiresome.

There doesn't need to be any "shared universe" with the likes of 'Dune'. Just adapt the books that are already written.

With something like this, you really have to go out of your way to fuck it up. You don't even have to sit down and write a story. It's already done. The hard part is complete.

Also, I can't imagine a spin off devoted to the Bene Gesserit to be that exciting a prospect. They're fine as a part of the over all story of 'Dune', but as a thing onto themselves, I can't see much of a draw there.

Slydice wrote: »

Hope they give a shout to Norma

Why?
Norma is only relevant to the BG if they take the BJH and KA books as canonical.
In the FH books, she has much more to do with the guild.

Slydice wrote: »

lol, you think they gonna ignore BH?

Are the rights to the creative works going for free now or something?

Is this really gonna be a "I can't believe it's not Dune"?

The prequels and sequels to the original 6 should IMO be ignored completely.
The ret-conning is extremely poor, to the point it destroys continuity and tbh the actual standard of writing, storytelling and development in those "books" is abysmal.

I'm happy to leave BJH's contribution to Dune to the Notebooks.

If they want to expand the universe and keep it in line with the original 6, the Dune Encyclopedia is a much better jump off point IMO.

Slydice wrote: »

so.. so let me get this straight..

you think money and the whole "who owns the rights" won't enter the decision making process?

in hollywood?

For a Dune scale production?

Where did I mention anything about the rights?
My worry for Dune and it's interpretation is the choice of Universe they present.
You said

Slydice wrote: »

Hope they give a shout to Norma

And I replied that

banie01 wrote: »

Why?
Norma is only relevant to the BG if they take the BJH and KA books as canonical.
.

Note no mention of the rights, I don't care about the rights to the BJH/KA books.
In the FH books, Norma is the fountainhead of the guild, Aurelias Venport's translight genius.

The prequel/Sequel universe are derived from the original Dune and I would assume that for logistics sake, the "Universe" film rights as a whole were sold off as a package by the Herbert estate.
Norma in the BJH/FA books was entwined with the Sorceresses of Rossak and the nascent BG in a manner which has no coherence or flow with the FH universe.

But, let me clear in case you have a want of understanding on my point here.

Choosing to use any of BJH/FA work as the basis for any iteration of Dune would IMO be a monumental error.
The stories lack any coherent connection with the FH universe and were basically IMO written as trash for cash.
I say that as someone who bought each of their novels and who is still disappointed at the time and money wasted.

Owning the film rights to a steaming turd, doesn't mean you need to point a camera at it (The BJH/KA contribution)

Slydice wrote: »

Well.. given this is a BH project..

jeez

I think there might be some disappointment in it for you if you want it stuck to the FH books

How is this Iteration a BH project?
In what way?

Slydice wrote: »

I barely had to scratch at wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_(2020_film)


all over his twitter too:
https://twitter.com/duneauthor

Confirming that Villeneuve is directing the Movie based on his Father's book doesn't mean it's Brian's project.
It means he is maximising exposure and cash generation for the literary estate, selling more books.

Does BH have a producer or writer credit?
Is there anything at all to indicate or confirm that he holds a modicum of creative control or direction?

PS: As for barely scratching at Wiki.
Feel free to quote any part of the article that mentions BH having creative input or control.

Slydice wrote: »

What am I, your google?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/fullcredits/

No, not my Google, you are claiming it's a BH project.
I'd differ strongly in that view, and would be more likely to say that as the rep of the Literary Estate he and his daughter are token EP's on the money train

Executive Producer, a courtesy title.
A title that will give a nice slice of the take and no actual control.
As for it being a BH project, the source material for the Movie is FH's Dune so I fail to see how BH will have much sway over what direction Villeneuve takes it.

Only my opinion and I may well be wrong, but I would seriously doubt given the contempt many Dune fans hold the prequels in that it would be the source of much material.
The only reason the BJH/KA books are "canon" is that they said they were and repudiated the "unofficial" encyclopedia.
Which given they own the story is their right.
I'd be more inclined to go along with FH's opinion of the encyclopedia though, rather than the blatant cash grab of the new books.

Slydice wrote: »

It's a fairly sharp position to lock yourself out of the film if it includes any BH stuff
but taking hardline positions like that hasn't stopped fans of other franchises

True.
But I would be very certain it won't hark to any BH stuff I had the misfortune to read BH's contribution to Dune.
Like I said earlier the only part of that corpus worth inclusion are his editorialised Notebooks from Dune which were written by FH in the main anyway, particularly the short stories.

I know it seems a tad extreme.
I have read and unfortunately re-read the BH books and the best compliment I could pay them is that they are competently formulaic.
The cynical milking of their fandom leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I do however think that Villeneuve will do a great job with this Movie.
The cast, the writers and the crew assembled leave me very hopeful that we will get the masterful space opera Dune deserves.

Slydice wrote: »

surprising to lump them all together given how different they can be though

Lump which together?
All the BH dune books?

Slydice wrote: »

yeah, all the bh dune universe books

I take it from your Norma reference earlier that you have read at least a couple of them.

I read them 1st with so much hope.
Hoping for something that would build on FH's work.

Instead I got templated stories that while they namechecked the Dune mythos, did nothing to either build on it or lay strong foundations for the story.

I'd describe it as one of those "put your name in a story" style books that you buy kids for their birthday.

From the Atreides back story BH laid out, to the inferences that FH laid out.
The Cymeks, The tlielaxu, the bridge of Hrethgir and the source of the feud all name checks rather than world building.
Milking the fandom IMO

Onto the sequels Hunters and so on.
The really are just formulaic fantasy cut and paste jobs.
I know that comes across as incredibly harsh on my part.
I do feel however that were those stories submitted to any publisher without the FH connection...
The only way they would ever have been printed is if the author self published.

IMHO in their very essence all the BH books are very generic fantasy, fudged to have a connection with Dune in name and tone, but not in quality.

Slydice wrote: »

Surprising to see the Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho stories thrown under the bus.

The one set on IX to.

Do you mean the short stories?
Those are apart from the Bronso of IX one, based on outline drafts left by FH.
Not really attributal to BH IMO, not his original work and much better for it IMO.

He had great characters already mapped out and just had to flesh out the story.

Look this is dragging the film talk off topic and I'm sure noone else wants to hear me banging on about my opinion of BH's "work"

pixelburp wrote: »

I mean more that Game of Thrones now likely drives about 80% of all Networks' conversations about new shows, and that the Gesserit's modus operandi likely lit some fires in the minds of those executives; from what I recall though, the Gesserit were a lot more substantial to the world of Dune, quietly messing with the gene pools and marriages to create the Super Being they were after.

Sure, and I agree.

But, a focus on the Bene Gesserit order being the basis of a good show is a different matter. Not to mention whether it's actually needed or not. Especially at this stage, when the first film hasn't even been shot yet.

This "everything is a franchise now" game gets my goat. I'd rather studios concentrated on the quality of their output first, rather than the prospective longevity and spin off's.

So very much Post I imagine

Set GPUs to Max!

:eek: NEED FILM NOW!

Brian Herbert
@DuneAuthor
Vi-Dan Tran [Utility Stunts / Assistant choreographer] tweeted: OMG ITS A WRAP FOR ME! 😳😳😳 7 months are over! Budapest jordan budapest 🙈🙈 finally going home!! Thanks to big brother @rogerzyuan for the great opportunity!! 🙏🙏🙏 i will miss the team! #DUNE

Original tweet:
https://twitter.com/DuneAuthor/status/1155592317962637312

I dunno, if the Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho backstories from the Brian Herbert cannon books aren't allowed, then I think their characters would seem ungrounded.

Did they just grow up as angsty teens or something as far people who don't want the Brian Herbert cannon books allowed are thinking?

This has been pushed back a month to December 2020.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/08/06/dune-star-wars-avatar-lord-of-the-rings-hobbit-aquaman-eternals-twilight-hunger-games-warner-bros-box-office/#4820321821e3

If they are going with December they must be confident they have a winner