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Homophobic attack on London bus - mod warning, please see OP

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  • Options
    #902
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Ok, i'll make it as simple as i can for you. Assuming the information we have at present is correct why did they pick on these two girls?
    Can a scumbag who may attacks other people not do a homophobic attack


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    #903
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,153 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    martingriff wrote: »
    Can a scumbag who may attacks other people not do a homophobic attack

    they can. that is my whole point. Just because they are scumbags who attack people on the regular does not mean we can disregard who the victims are when they attack somebody because they are gay.


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    #904
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    did they attack them because they were gay?

    did they attack them because they were two women and an easy target?

    we dont actually know the answer to that question.

    do these scrotes have a hatred for homosexuals?

    how many people did they beat and rob who were not homosexuals and were therefore not newsworthy?

    we dont know.

    We know that they explicitly chose to use homophobic slurs, we know that they demanded the women kiss for them. The evidence available, while limited, all points to a homophobic attack.

    It certainly seems far more likely that it WAS a homophobic attack than that it wasn’t.

    It’s bizarre that people won’t admit that here.


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    #905
    MrFresh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    did they attack them because they were gay?

    did they attack them because they were two women and an easy target?

    we dont actually know the answer to that question.

    do these scrotes have a hatred for homosexuals?

    how many people did they beat and rob who were not homosexuals and were therefore not newsworthy?

    we dont know.


    Surely the more revealing fact would be how many of their other victims did they try and force to perform homosexual acts.


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    #906
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    they can. that is my whole point. Just because they are scumbags who attack people on the regular does not mean we can disregard who the victims are when they attack somebody because they are gay.

    Sorry I quoted the wrong message I do agree with you


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    #907
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Excellent point about teaching equality in the schools.

    482451.PNG


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    #908
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Excellent point about teaching equality in the schools.

    482451.PNG

    I have no problem with teaching equality in schools but the type of people capable of attacks like this aren't going to be too influenced by what their teacher's say.
    They are scumbags pure and simple.


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    #909
    mdk_kdm
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭mdk_kdm


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Excellent point about teaching equality in the schools.

    Might as well start teaching 2+2=5


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    #910
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Will I Am Not wrote: »
    I wouldn’t say “clearly” motivated. Heard a guy on the radio the other that tried to speak up when he seen 2 scumbags throw a bottle at a fox. They started calling him all manner of homophobic slurs, eventually throwing a bottle at him.
    That was technically a homophobic attack but it wasn’t clearly motivated by his sexuality. If he was black/Asian/ginger/wore glasses etc the insults would have been different. They may have homosexual family or friends, they may be totally fine with homosexuality. Just scum being scum and going straight for the most personal aspect of a persons identity that will cause the most upset.

    Perhaps youre right. But the victims were gay and this attackers were aware of this and the attack seemed to begin with an element relating to their sexuality(getting them to kiss), and escalated from there. So hardly outside the realms of possibility they had homopobic motivations for attacking them to begin with. Why are you so eager to disprove it as a homophobic attack when it in all likelihood appears to be one?

    Personally Id consider it more of a mysognistic attack than a homophobic one though


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    #911
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,126 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I was reading this earlier. It's a girl talking about how the attack on these women affected her.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/10/homophobic-attacks-hide-same-sex-relationships-safe
    Many will be shocked that another attack occurred so soon, but this kind of crime is much more common than we think. According to research from the charity Stonewall in 2017, four in five anti-LGBT hate crimes and incidents go unreported. For LGBTQ+ people, on the other hand, these attacks won’t come as a surprise. The same study found that a fifth of us had experienced a hate crime in the past year; and government research in 2018 found that two-thirds of us don’t feel comfortable holding hands in public.

    BTW, a load of that text has links to reports in the article.


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    #912
    Will I Am Not
    Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Perhaps youre right. But the victims were gay and this attackers were aware of this and the attack seemed to begin with an element relating to their sexuality(getting them to kiss), and escalated from there. So hardly outside the realms of possibility they had homopobic motivations for attacking them to begin with. Why are you so eager to disprove it as a homophobic attack when it in all likelihood appears to be one?

    I’m not, it becomes a homophobic attack when homophobic slurs are used. Just like the other example I gave.
    If you actually read my post it was the “clearly motivated by homophobia” part that I was unsure on.
    So to clear it up... It was a homophobic attack and I’m not eager to disprove that.


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    #913
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Can't see them avoiding a court case given how much attention it has received, politicians tweeting about it etc, and so at the very least some of them will be done for the theft. As for the assaults, it will most likely depend on who hit who first. They have the bus CCTV and so should be easy to establish.

    Not necessarily. If it can be ascertained that the first hit was due to provocation, it might be seen as self-defence. They wouldn’t just be depending on CCTV. Eyewitness accounts could also be used.


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    #914
    klaaaz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    joe40 wrote: »
    I have no problem with teaching equality in schools but the type of people capable of attacks like this aren't going to be too influenced by what their teacher's say.
    They are scumbags pure and simple.

    Scumbags with a homophobic inclination. Let's hope the teachers in school will help to alleviate the numbers of hateful individuals at an early stage in their teenagehood which in turn will help to reduce the numbers in adulthood of homophobic crimes.


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    #915
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Scumbags with a homophobic inclination. Let's hope the teachers in school will help to alleviate the numbers of hateful individuals at an early stage in their teenagehood which in turn will help to reduce the numbers in adulthood of homophobic crimes.

    weve had teachers teaching irish for how many decades

    hows that going

    its not teachers jobs to prevent kids growing up with sociopathic tendencies, tho im sure they do what they can.


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    #916
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,814 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    weve had teachers teaching irish for how many decades

    hows that going

    its not teachers jobs to prevent kids growing up with sociopathic tendencies, tho im sure they do what they can.

    Seriously? Teachers never intervene to prevent bullying or fighting? Its not their job to do so?

    What world are you living in?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #917
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    weve had teachers teaching irish for how many decades

    hows that going

    its not teachers jobs to prevent kids growing up with sociopathic tendencies, tho im sure they do what they can.

    Big difference between teaching a language and trying to teach social issues.

    But kids normally learn to be assholes and have issues with people based on their sexuality, race etc from their parents, so might be worth it might not be.


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    #918
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,073 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Scumbags with a homophobic inclination. Let's hope the teachers in school will help to alleviate the numbers of hateful individuals at an early stage in their teenagehood which in turn will help to reduce the numbers in adulthood of homophobic crimes.

    That is their parents job and scumbags learn their scumbaggery from example as very young kids


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    #919
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    Big difference between teaching a language and trying to teach social issues.

    But kids normally learn to be assholes and have issues with people based on their sexuality, race etc from their parents, so might be worth it might not be.


    I don’t think it’s as simple as that at all that children normally learn to be assholes from their parents. If that were even generally true, then I’d agree with you that teaching children in school about social issues would be a futile exercise (notwithstanding the possibility that their teachers are assholes of course :D). But the reality anyway is that children don’t just learn to be assholes from others. Some children just are assholes, who grow up to be assholes as adults. They rationalise their attitudes and behaviours as normal based upon their perception of their environment in which they grow up and what they are exposed to as children and as adults.

    When children grow up to be adults, their parents play only a very small part in them behaving like assholes. More times it’s their peer group which influences their attitudes, beliefs and their behaviour towards other people, as it was in this particular case where their attitudes and behaviour was acceptable to them within their own group. I would imagine for their own protection, the authorities have chosen not to provide details to the public of the perpetrators in this particular case given their ages at least, not unlike many high profile cases in which details of the suspects are not released to the media for their own protection.


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    #920
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dubinmeath takes the point i made fairly and i agree with the point made back

    joeytheparrot, unsurprisingly tbh, has a little tantrum


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    #921
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    dubinmeath takes the point i made fairly and i agree with the point made back

    joeytheparrot, unsurprisingly tbh, has a little tantrum


    To be fair to him, Joey has a point in that contrary to your assertion, it actually is part of a teachers job to ensure that children aren’t growing up with sociopathic tendencies. They’re acting in loco parentis, meaning that they are acting in place of the parents in providing children with an education. Part of that education consists of children’s social education. Teachers have an influential part to play in children’s attitudes and behaviours towards others too, and that’s why I pointed out that if the teacher is an asshole, that’s equally likely to influence the behaviours and attitudes of the children in their care.

    I’ll always remember interviewing a chap for a position as a teacher in a school, and this chap now was fairly obviously effeminate. On paper he had all the necessary qualifications and so on, and had additional qualifications which I thought would be of benefit to the children who we were looking to fill the position for (a rowdy bunch who had gone through a string of teachers who had refused to teach the class as it was proving detrimental to their mental and physical health), and I just thought to myself “I’m worried about this chap as they could eat him alive!”

    As it turned out, I was actually glad that I couldn’t have been more wrong - the children loved him! Class behaviour improved immensely in the weeks that followed and educational achievement and learning outcomes improved as a consequence of that. The children literally went from being out of control assholes with no interest in education, to being one of the most well behaved classes in the school!


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    #922
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,779 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen poster in AH accusing LGBT+ people “playing the victim”. For once we have 2 actual, bona fide, victims of a hate crime and a cadre or posters are brushing it off “sure they’re only scumbags”.

    It’s beyond parody at this stage.

    Someone shouts abuse, sure that’s not a hate crime no one was actually physically hurt.

    People are intimidated physically for being gay, sure no one threw any punches. Get over it gays, stop playing the victim.

    2 women are physically attacks, after some homophobic insults. Sure it wasn’t homophobia, the lads who did it were obviously scumbags.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Options
    #923
    Grey Wind
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Grey Wind


    Brian? wrote: »
    I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen poster in AH accusing LGBT+ people “playing the victim”. For once we have 2 actual, bona fide, victims of a hate crime and a cadre or posters are brushing it off “sure they’re only scumbags”.

    It’s beyond parody at this stage.

    Someone shouts abuse, sure that’s not a hate crime no one was actually physically hurt.

    People are intimidated physically for being gay, sure no one threw any punches. Get over it gays, stop playing the victim.

    2 women are physically attacks, after some homophobic insults. Sure it wasn’t homophobia, the lads who did it were obviously scumbags.

    You couldn’t make it up.

    It's insane. The lack of empathy is kind of scary tbh, how hard is it to say "wow that's awful, the poor girls" and move on?


  • Options
    #924
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,689 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    To be fair to him, Joey has a point in that contrary to your assertion, it actually is part of a teachers job to ensure that children aren’t growing up with sociopathic tendencies. They’re acting in loco parentis, meaning that they are acting in place of the parents in providing children with an education. Part of that education consists of children’s social education. Teachers have an influential part to play in children’s attitudes and behaviours towards others too, and that’s why I pointed out that if the teacher is an asshole, that’s equally likely to influence the behaviours and attitudes of the children in their care.

    I’ll always remember interviewing a chap for a position as a teacher in a school, and this chap now was fairly obviously effeminate. On paper he had all the necessary qualifications and so on, and had additional qualifications which I thought would be of benefit to the children who we were looking to fill the position for (a rowdy bunch who had gone through a string of teachers who had refused to teach the class as it was proving detrimental to their mental and physical health), and I just thought to myself “I’m worried about this chap as they could eat him alive!”

    As it turned out, I was actually glad that I couldn’t have been more wrong - the children loved him! Class behaviour improved immensely in the weeks that followed and educational achievement and learning outcomes improved as a consequence of that. The children literally went from being out of control assholes with no interest in education, to being one of the most well behaved classes in the school!

    I am sorry OneEyeJack the person who should be making sure children aren’t growing up with sociopathic tendencies are PARENTS not the teachers. They are not there to teach your kids morals. Teachers are powerless to get morals into children if they even look at a kid sideways now they can be reported on.

    Parents take responsibility for once in your life


  • Options
    #925
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,666 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    martingriff wrote: »
    I am sorry OneEyeJack the person who should be making sure children aren’t growing up with sociopathic tendencies are PARENTS not the teachers. They are not there to teach your kids morals. Teachers are powerless to get morals into children if they even look at a kid sideways now they can be reported on.

    Parents take responsibility for once in your life


    There’s no need to apologise for expressing a difference of opinion, but the fact is that it is the responsibility of any adults in a child’s life, to set an example for the child, and so not only is it not only the job of teachers to ensure that children aren’t growing up with sociopathic tendencies, but it is their duty, as they are responsible for the children’s welfare. The child’s parents are also responsible for the child’s welfare.

    I couldn’t disagree more either with your assertion that teachers are powerless to instil values and morals in children, they are role models for children and can inspire them to want to improve and educate themselves. The idea that if a teacher looks sideways at a child now they can be reported on is just pure and unadulterated nonsense, frankly. As I demonstrated in the example above (and it is but one of many), teachers have a very influential role to play in modelling children’s perceptions of how to treat people when they themselves become adults.


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    #926
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    Brian? wrote: »
    I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen poster in AH accusing LGBT+ people “playing the victim”. For once we have 2 actual, bona fide, victims of a hate crime and a cadre or posters are brushing it off “sure they’re only scumbags”.

    It’s beyond parody at this stage.

    Someone shouts abuse, sure that’s not a hate crime no one was actually physically hurt.

    People are intimidated physically for being gay, sure no one threw any punches. Get over it gays, stop playing the victim.

    2 women are physically attacks, after some homophobic insults. Sure it wasn’t homophobia, the lads who did it were obviously scumbags.

    You couldn’t make it up.


    A dedicated thread and 62 pages later .. ..

    Where the thread on after-hours for this poor woman ..Stabbed in Islington yesterday

    Is it because she was married to a man she doesnt deserve a thread and 62 pages ...

    Mother-of-three is stabbed after 'refusing to hand over phone to teenage mugger' as she pushed her son in a buggy in north London street
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7124675/Mother-three-stabbed-refusing-hand-phone-teenage-mugger.html

    btw the police DID release a desciption for this crime
    He is described as a black male, 5 ft 3ins, of large build and was wearing dark coloured clothing, including a jacket and a 'trucker' style cap at the time of the attack.

    Interesting how they never released any description of the attackers for the 2 girls getting on the bus ... mmm I wonder why

    Is that a nettle I see before me, best not not grasp it , you dont want to be having any uncomfortable conversations taking you out of your comfort zone now do we ...


  • Options
    #927
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    A dedicated thread and 62 pages later .. ..

    Where the thread on after-hours for this poor woman ..Stabbed in Islington yesterday

    Is it because she was married to a man she doesnt deserve a thread and 62 pages ...

    Mother-of-three is stabbed after 'refusing to hand over phone to teenage mugger' as she pushed her son in a buggy in north London street



    btw the police DID release a desciption for this crime



    Interesting how they never released any description of the attackers for the 2 girls getting on the bus ... mmm I wonder why

    Is that a nettle I see before me, best not not grasp it , you dont want to be having any uncomfortable conversations taking you out of your comfort zone now do we ...

    Yes. Likely he was a Gay Muslim immigrant on welfare and the lefist media don't want the people to know, (after printing the story in their national paper). Now run to the village square and inform the elders!


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    #928
    RIGOLO
    Site Banned Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭RIGOLO


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Yes. Likely he was a Gay Muslim immigrant on welfare and the lefist media don't want the people to know, (after printing the story in their national paper). Now run to the village square and inform the elders!

    The poster doth protest too much , methinks.


  • Options
    #929
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,407 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    A dedicated thread and 62 pages later .. ..

    Where the thread on after-hours for this poor woman ..Stabbed in Islington yesterday

    Is it because she was married to a man she doesnt deserve a thread and 62 pages ...

    Mother-of-three is stabbed after 'refusing to hand over phone to teenage mugger' as she pushed her son in a buggy in north London street



    btw the police DID release a desciption for this crime



    Interesting how they never released any description of the attackers for the 2 girls getting on the bus ... mmm I wonder why

    Is that a nettle I see before me, best not not grasp it , you dont want to be having any uncomfortable conversations taking you out of your comfort zone now do we ...

    Because they had cctv and made arrests pretty quickly?


  • Options
    #930
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    A dedicated thread and 62 pages later .. ..

    Where the thread on after-hours for this poor woman ..Stabbed in Islington yesterday

    Is it because she was married to a man she doesnt deserve a thread and 62 pages ...

    Mother-of-three is stabbed after 'refusing to hand over phone to teenage mugger' as she pushed her son in a buggy in north London street



    btw the police DID release a desciption for this crime



    Interesting how they never released any description of the attackers for the 2 girls getting on the bus ... mmm I wonder why

    Is that a nettle I see before me, best not not grasp it , you dont want to be having any uncomfortable conversations taking you out of your comfort zone now do we ...

    Simple answer.

    Bus attack: CCTV footage available as reported, no need for a description of the attackers, just a request for witnesses to come forward so the statements given by both sides can be clarified.

    Your example, unfortunately no CCTV going by the report, standard enough to release a general description so that anyone who might have been in the area and seen a person fitting the description can come forward to provide information.

    Looking forward to you opening a thread on the attack provided, lucky woman going by the report


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    #931
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    RIGOLO wrote: »
    A dedicated thread and 62 pages later .. ..

    Where the thread on after-hours for this poor woman ..Stabbed in Islington yesterday

    Is it because she was married to a man she doesnt deserve a thread and 62 pages ...

    Mother-of-three is stabbed after 'refusing to hand over phone to teenage mugger' as she pushed her son in a buggy in north London street



    btw the police DID release a desciption for this crime



    Interesting how they never released any description of the attackers for the 2 girls getting on the bus ... mmm I wonder why

    Is that a nettle I see before me, best not not grasp it , you dont want to be having any uncomfortable conversations taking you out of your comfort zone now do we ...

    It wouldn't be 62 pages if we didn't have people whining about the attack being reported in the news.


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