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Liberals who aren't liberal

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    #392
    1641
    Registered Users Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭1641


    recedite wrote: »
    However, because the seating seems to be arranged in order of the various schools or faculties, with the more prestigious ones at the front, in practice the "diversity placements" all end up sitting at the back together.
    (lukewarm tea and miniscule cocktail sausages)
    recedite wrote: »
    If they had been there on merit, they wouldn't have had to sit at the back.


    So they were sitting at the back because that is where their faculty were placed in the seating arrangement?

    And perhaps, the faculty seating arrangenment change from year to year. I suspect if their faculty had been placed at the front you would have seen as as being because they needed to be "kept an eye on".


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    #393
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    riffmongous wrote: »
    It would also explain why they were all at the back, as it was a different award to the points related scholarships.
    I'm guessing this was it
    https://www.ucd.ie/all/cometoucd/financialsupport/scholarships/1916bursary/
    Nope. If you had being paying attention, you would have seen me describe it thusly...
    recedite wrote: »
    the UCD entrance scholarship awards last November.
    And there were a lot more than 10 Africans there, I would say maybe 20 or 30, but I can't remember exactly. The gays are harder to spot, except the really camp ones.
    It seems a decision has been made to increase diversity around the campus, and that means lots of black faces, rainbow flags and headscarves around the place.

    If the college intake was based solely on points, there would be too many boring white Irish students, and the college would lack sophistication apparently.
    So these colourful characters are given diversity placements, and lauded as great scholars, but unfortunately they still haven't got enough points to get into any decent courses. As a result, special schools like this one expand to fill the niche market. Meanwhile people are dying on trolleys and the country is crying out for more doctors to be trained.

    Diversity placements and gender quotas have one thing in common; they result in a general dumbing down wherever they are applied.


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    #394
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Not for being gay as far as I know, maybe that was just the OP being colourful, or if they didn't get the difference between a scholarship and bursary who knows what else they missed. However, being a refugee, mature student, traveller, low income single parent etc you could apply for one. UCD gives out around 10 as far as I can remember

    There's the Cothrom na Féinne Scholarship of which there's approx. 100 at €1,500 each
    Applicants from low-income households are invited, and priority will be given to:

    HEAR students
    DARE students
    Students with a disability
    First time mature students
    Members of the travelling community
    Further education award holders
    Lone parents who are in receipt of a means-tested social welfare payment
    Ethnic minorities
    Refugees, those with leave to remain, and asylum seekers
    Students who have successfully completed a UCD Access Programm

    There's also 30 specifically for refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
    https://www.ucd.ie/all/cometoucd/financialsupport/scholarships/cnf-refugeesasylumseekerspilot/


    I'm not sure why the outrage TBH.

    Surely it's better to be helping people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go to University to gain a stronger education and ultimately have a better chance of making a larger contribution to society.

    The €1,500 per year will be well paid back in the increased income taxes they'll end up paying over their careers.


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    #395
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    blackwhite wrote: »
    There's the Cothrom na Féinne Scholarship of which there's approx. 100 at €1,500 each



    There's also 30 specifically for refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
    https://www.ucd.ie/all/cometoucd/financialsupport/scholarships/cnf-refugeesasylumseekerspilot/


    I'm not sure why the outrage TBH.

    Surely it's better to be helping people who wouldn't otherwise be able to go to University to gain a stronger education and ultimately have a better chance of making a larger contribution to society.

    The €1,500 per year will be well paid back in the increased income taxes they'll end up paying over their careers.

    tell that to recedite.


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    #396
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    blackwhite wrote: »
    There's also 30 specifically for refugees, asylum seekers, etc.
    https://www.ucd.ie/all/cometoucd/financialsupport/scholarships/cnf-refugeesasylumseekerspilot/

    I'm not sure why the outrage TBH.
    Well that tallys with my own observations.
    I'm not outraged. I'm just saying its a bit cringeworthy inviting them to the same ceremony as those who have achieved high points, and then making them sit at the back of the room.
    Lets face it, they are not great scholars. They are only there because of some special physical characteristic.
    I didn't realise they were getting cash, as well as the college places and student accommodation.


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    #397
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    recedite wrote: »
    Well that tallys with my own observations.
    I'm not outraged. I'm just saying its a bit cringeworthy inviting them to the same ceremony as those who have achieved high points, and then making them sit at the back of the room.
    Lets face it, they are not great scholars. They are only there because of some special physical characteristic.
    I didn't realise they were getting cash, as well as the college places and student accommodation.

    who says they got the college place because of the bursary? it doesn't say that in the link. I am open to correction on this but the bursary is open to those who have already obtained a place. the bursary is financial support only. You also have no idea how many points they achieved. Unless they were wearing those in a sign around their neck. Your post seems to be just a load of baseless assumptions.


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    #398
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    recedite wrote: »
    Well that tallys with my own observations.
    I'm not outraged. I'm just saying its a bit cringeworthy inviting them to the same ceremony as those who have achieved high points, and then making them sit at the back of the room.
    Lets face it, they are not great scholars. They are only there because of some special physical characteristic.
    I didn't realise they were getting cash, as well as the college places and student accommodation.


    It's all in the link.

    They need to have been offered a place via the CAO just like anyone else - so they've achieved the same points as any of their peers studying the same courses.

    And they don't get accomodation as part of it. There's other schemes that assist with accomodation in cases of financial need, but it's nothing to do with these scholarships.


    You seem to be very keen to:
    1) project your own prejudices onto these students, whilst ignoring the actual facts of the programme
    2) deprive those in need of financial assistance the opportunity to better themselves and to wean themselves off the need for the State to pay for them.


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    #399
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    recedite wrote: »
    Nope. If you had being paying attention, you would have seen me describe it thusly...And there were a lot more than 10 Africans there, I would say maybe 20 or 30, but I can't remember exactly. The gays are harder to spot, except the really camp ones.
    It seems a decision has been made to increase diversity around the campus, and that means lots of black faces, rainbow flags and headscarves around the place.

    If the college intake was based solely on points, there would be too many boring white Irish students, and the college would lack sophistication apparently.
    So these colourful characters are given diversity placements, and lauded as great scholars, but unfortunately they still haven't got enough points to get into any decent courses. As a result, special schools like this one expand to fill the niche market. Meanwhile people are dying on trolleys and the country is crying out for more doctors to be trained.

    Diversity placements and gender quotas have one thing in common; they result in a general dumbing down wherever they are applied.

    The Entrance Scholarships are purely based on merit, so either everyone there was receiving that award or there must have been a second award being handed out. So the people at the back would be there because they are getting a different award, not because they are a bit thick as you put it.

    You know if more doctors were to be trained the points would drop and then you'd probably be judging those students as a bit thick too


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    #400
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    riffmongous wrote: »
    The Entrance Scholarships are purely based on merit, so either everyone there was receiving that award or there must have been a second award being handed out. So the people at the back would be there because they are getting a different award, not because they are a bit thick as you put it.

    You know if more doctors were to be trained the points would drop and then you'd probably be judging those students as a bit thick too

    It's popularity too. There was a time studying to be a Vet called for more points than a doctor, might still be the case.


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    #401
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    blackwhite wrote: »
    They need to have been offered a place via the CAO just like anyone else - so they've achieved the same points as any of their peers studying the same courses.
    Yes, I did explain that part. Hence the reason they were seated at the back of the room. But white heterosexual Irish students studying those same (low points requirement) courses were not invited to this event.

    There are loads of third level courses nowadays that any fool could get into, but most students are aiming higher. If they can't get into a good course, they look for work instead.
    blackwhite wrote: »
    You seem to be very keen to:
    1) project your own prejudices onto these students, whilst ignoring the actual facts of the programme
    2) deprive those in need of financial assistance the opportunity to better themselves and to wean themselves off the need for the State to pay for them.
    No, I'm a believer in equality of opportunity. If you get a high number points, you should be honoured at a ceremony like this, regardless of colour, creed or sexual orientation. There is no reason for anyone else to be there.

    If you are also from a poor background, then you should also get extra financial assistance from a scholarship fund.
    But the words "scholar" and "scholarship" have become much abused.


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    #402
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    recedite wrote: »
    Yes, I did explain that part. Hence the reason they were seated at the back of the room. But white heterosexual Irish students studying those same (low points requirement) courses were not invited to this event.
    Presumably because they were not being givwn a scholarship. why does that have to be explained to you?


    recedite wrote: »
    There are loads of third level courses nowadays that any fool could get into, but most students are aiming higher. If they can't get into a good course, they look for work instead.

    how do you know what points they got? How do you know what course they were on?
    recedite wrote: »
    No, I'm a believer in equality of opportunity. If you get a high number points, you should be honoured at a ceremony like this, regardless of colour, creed or sexual orientation. There is no reason for anyone else to be there.

    They were there because they were receiving a scholarshop. this is quite plain and obvious.

    recedite wrote: »
    If you are also from a poor background, then you should also get extra financial assistance from a scholarship fund.
    But the words "scholar" and "scholarship" have become much abused.

    Perhaps you should look up what scholarship actually means. Perhaps via some scholarship of your own. All we have seen so far is race-baiting and homophobia.


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    #403
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,179 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    It's popularity too. There was a time studying to be a Vet called for more points than a doctor, might still be the case.

    less places in the veterinary school so points are always really high.


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    #404
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,647 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    What I find astounding about people in general is their inability to see how influenced they are by the media and society in general.
    Thus many pro choice people would have been pro life is they had been adults in the 1980s.
    I'd admire those people who fought for divorce and contraceptive laws (liberalisation) back in the 1970s when it wasn't popular or trendy.
    I'm also sick of women talking about how opresseed they were without acknowledging that a lot of women were quite happy with the status quo on most social issues. Don't get me wrong divorce and condoms should have been freely available but the way some women talk you would think they had no vote since 1918!


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    #405
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    What I find astounding about people in general is their inability to see how influenced they are by the media and society in general.
    Thus many pro choice people would have been pro life is they had been adults in the 1980s.

    I think so too, I think vegan girl who won't eat an egg, because of cruelty would surely be pro-life if she had been born years before, or indeed now, if she applied any logic tests to her belief system.
    Bobtheman wrote: »
    I'd admire those people who fought for divorce and contraceptive laws (liberalisation) back in the 1970s when it wasn't popular or trendy.
    I'm also sick of women talking about how opresseed they were without acknowledging that a lot of women were quite happy with the status quo on most social issues. Don't get me wrong divorce and condoms should have been freely available but the way some women talk you would think they had no vote since 1918!

    I think some modern feminist types do forget that women were 51% of the electorate since the foundation of the state. They do have this idea that the 8th amendment was simply a male imposition. Also guess who administered the laundries and the mother and baby homes and dished out the lions share of physical and emotional abuse in those institutions? that's right, nuns (i.e. women).


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    #406
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Tommeh Robinson sucker punched an England fan to the ground at the Netherlands match in Portugal. So much for the free speech loving tolerant right.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tommy-robinson-punches-england-fan-video-portugal-football-netherlands-a8948591.html


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    #407
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    20Cent wrote: »
    Tommeh Robinson sucker punched an England fan to the ground at the Netherlands match in Portugal. So much for the free speech loving tolerant right.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tommy-robinson-punches-england-fan-video-portugal-football-netherlands-a8948591.html

    I’m sure none of your Antifa scum heroes have ever assaulted anyone. But you probably consider them ‘tolerant’.


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    #408
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    I’m sure none of your Antifa scum heroes have ever assaulted anyone. But you probably consider them ‘tolerant’.

    Antifa aren't tolerant.
    Never said they were.


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    #409
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    I’m sure none of your Antifa scum heroes have ever assaulted anyone. But you probably consider them ‘tolerant’.




    I trust you can provide evidence (posts/quotes) to show that 20cent supports the antifa movement?


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    #410
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I trust you can provide evidence (posts/quotes) to show that 20cent supports the antifa movement?

    Will save ye some time. Yes antifascim is the right thing to do.


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    #411
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    TBH - I’d have thought that Tommy Robinson and “aggressive” England fans would tend to find a fair bit of common ground





    That said - I see the conversation has turned to Antifa - other cheek of the same arse really.

    Violent scum who will try to justify using violence against anyone they choose to label as the enemy


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    #412
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    I’m sure none of your Antifa scum heroes have ever assaulted anyone. But you probably consider them ‘tolerant’.
    How does that mitigate Tommy Robinson's behaviour in this instance? Is it only possible to criticise one or the other?


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    #413
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    What I find astounding about people in general is their inability to see how influenced they are by the media and society in general.
    Thus many pro choice people would have been pro life is they had been adults in the 1980s.
    I'd admire those people who fought for divorce and contraceptive laws (liberalisation) back in the 1970s when it wasn't popular or trendy.
    I'm also sick of women talking about how opresseed they were without acknowledging that a lot of women were quite happy with the status quo on most social issues. Don't get me wrong divorce and condoms should have been freely available but the way some women talk you would think they had no vote since 1918!
    Just to point out something really obvious, there were plenty of people who were adults in the 80s who entire favoured the liberalisation of their laws. Eg my mum is in her early 70s,she voted to repeal even though she's not entirely comfortable with abortion. She thinks our existing laws were brutal. Also happily voted in favour of divorce along with plenty of other women in the 90s.(admittedly close but lots of women of all ages favoured it, now majority favour it by heavy margin)

    So there were plenty of women of all ages who were not happy with the status quo on.


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    #414
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    intolerant bigots on the left complaining about the intolerance of intolerant bigots on the right . .

    Irony_Meter.gif


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    #415
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    Are people still defending Tommy Robinson :) ha ha ... he's a mutant, even the far right Brexit people now despise him


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    #416
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Odhinn wrote: »
    I trust you can provide evidence (posts/quotes) to show that 20cent supports the antifa movement?

    Bizarre post, even for you.


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    #417
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    Ellianna Loud Macaw wrote: »
    How does that mitigate Tommy Robinson's behaviour in this instance? Is it only possible to criticise one or the other?

    Who said it did? But that particular posters hypocrisy is hilarious.


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    #418
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    20Cent wrote: »
    Tommeh Robinson sucker punched an England fan to the ground at the Netherlands match in Portugal. So much for the free speech loving tolerant right.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tommy-robinson-punches-england-fan-video-portugal-football-netherlands-a8948591.html

    he was with his wife when your man kept harassing him,
    which I think is fair enough

    but don't let the important details get in the way of your desire to push your story.


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    #419
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    paw patrol wrote: »
    he was with his wife when your man kept harassing him,
    which I think is fair enough

    but don't let the important details get in the way of your desire to push your story.

    Yeah, I forgot violence is okay when someone is being annoying.


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    #420
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Yeah, I forgot violence is okay when someone is being annoying.

    But I suppose it would be okay if the victim was wearing a MAGA cap, right?


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    #421
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    KikiLaRue wrote: »
    Yeah, I forgot violence is okay when someone is being annoying.

    Dunno about you but if somebody was harassing my wife (or my kids) and I was concerned, I'd do something about it.
    It's called responsibility. Might be unfashionable in the circles you mix in.


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